2016 Ondrej Nepela Memorial Free Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2016 Ondrej Nepela Memorial Free Dance

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
That was really good from Tiffany and Jon. I actually think they have a shot at getting that second Worlds spot!

That dance did nothing for me, and I was annoyed that they were scored highly enough to overtake the Czechs. It was just another example of why I tend to dislike the Russian style of ice dance. There was no theme or concept and it looked like they were trying too hard. Didn't like her 'look' either. I sure hope they DON'T get a spot at Worlds.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
When a team makes serious technical mistakes its PCS go down, it's normal and nothing new here. They'll score higher PCS when clean, no doubt about it. But I really would prefer Igor to make some changes, at least with music edit. I just don't like it, no matter how good choreography is, IMO, it's not working with these cuts.

As for Bobrova/Soloviev lacking fire, their AK FD was not the most fiery one too :) I like calm and haunted.
 

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Why did she cry? Anyone knows? Is it because she didn't catch her blade on that spin?

I think it was a ridiculous over-reaction under the circumstances. Nothing wrong with crying but go and do it backstage instead of in front of everyone like a diva attention-seeker. She's not a junior at her first competition, for goodness sake.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Didn't like her 'look' either.

I don't understand what this means or how we're supposed to find it relevant- can you elaborate? I don't live in a fantasy world where packaging, such as it is, doesn't matter at all, but I don't see what's so objectionable about her 'look' compared to any other skaters?
 

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
I don't understand what this means or how we're supposed to find it relevant- can you elaborate? I don't live in a fantasy world where packaging, such as it is, doesn't matter at all, but I don't see what's so objectionable about her 'look' compared to any other skaters?

It is just my opinion, OK, but I can't stand that dyed red hair, it looks cheap and tacky. Wasn't mad about the dress either. It's just that most ice dancers manage to look refined and elegant and she doesn't. Like it or not, the appearance matters.
 

Mattieu

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
It is just my opinion, OK, but I can't stand that dyed red hair, it looks cheap and tacky. Wasn't mad about the dress either. It's just that most ice dancers manage to look refined and elegant and she doesn't. Like it or not, the appearance matters.

The fact you can't stand her is a positive thing, as it means she doesn't blend into the background, which is important.
Yes, dyed red hair is not to everyone's taste, but for this young miss, most people seem to like it.
The French Federation loved it, and told her to keep it, which she has done.
Maybe it is a French style thing?
I personally love her look, sexy without being vulgar.

I understand she was injured and that can't be easy for weight control, but still she needs to lose a few more kilos to look good in that SD dress.
 
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cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Country
Poland
What on earth is a potato medal?

A 4th place. Since being right behind the podium is frustrating sometimes, so it feels like winning "potato medal". That term was used by Michal Brezina once. That's why some of us (like me!) call Michal Brezina a Potato King :biggrin: (I love him, but his headcasing is famous, and he had a lot of 4th place in important competitions).
 

Mattieu

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
A 4th place. Since being right behind the podium is frustrating sometimes, so it feels like winning "potato medal". That term was used by Michal Brezina once. That's why some of us (like me!) call Michal Brezina a Potato King :biggrin: (I love him, but his headcasing is famous, and he had a lot of 4th place in important competitions).

We call it the 'medal of chocolate' here in France! ;)
 

viennaskater

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
The fact you can't stand her is a positive thing, as it means she doesn't blend into the background, which is important.

It is not her, it is her appearance. I don|t see it as positive when something is not aesthetic to look at.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
There's nothing wrong with C/B's FD. What they need to do is to skate it confidently and with conviction. This FD is a contemporary dance (interpretative dancing, if you will) on ice. Their elemental organic movements figuratively express the spirit ... intent ... issues that the dance meant or wanted to convey subliminally. I'm glad they're not just mindlessly creating movements or forms that suit the rhythm (hate to say but Shib's ColdPlay FD was exactly that - beautiful but the movements had nothing to do with theme of the music though occasionally hit the right note). Ever heard of Martha Graham? Of course, you have. Her dancing style is rooted in the innate ability of the body to express something through movements. Look at C/B's expressive hands, arms ... their movements conveying 'pressures' ... stresses. I guess I can relate because of my dancing background (performed creative modern dances in my youth). Anyway, what happened today to them is nothing new ... not unexpected: lost their concentration, could also be fatigue (modern dancing could be emotionally and physically grueling ... draining). It's a good thing they're experiencing these 'things' now - they will learn to handle these better.

I understand everything that you are saying and am impressed with your obvious vast dance vocabulary and knowledge. That said, I think we seriously see things differently because I'm not as convinced as you are about the FD and I don't think their choreography has anything to do with the music either. Plus, despite it being constructed differently, it can't help but look similar to past programs due to the sameness of the way both Evan and Madison move and facially express their programs. I do think Madison and Evan love dancing and really want to explore deeper concepts, I just don't think Igor's typical ice dance by the numbers and maximize points style with limited dance vocabulary is the best for them anymore in terms of program creation.
 
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gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Some of Russia wants a flashy exciting number one but judges love b/s so much they will always be Russia number one.
 

Astrid56

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Generally, steps, moods, characteristics, and patterns are what differentiate one dance from the other. Viennese Waltz and just Waltz, for instance, both use three-quarter time but in tempo, the former can be done up to four times and faster. Though the two can look very similar or the same, the two are different as day and night. VW is fast-paced, doing significantly more turns done both ways - inside and out while Waltz’s movements tend to be linear. There are more obvious differences but pointing these out is not my intent. I’d like to talk more about the ice-dancing choreographers – their styles … differences as these explain the ‘whatnots’ of the ice-dancers’ programs. Also, it's important to realize that ice-dancing is a different art form that tends to mimic dance but the emphasis is more on athletism and effective use/placement of ice dance technical elements. Ice-dancing relies heavily on its choreographer's ability to craft movements/elements that interpret his concepts and seems to suit the rhythm of the music.

Starting with Zhulin, his is mostly thematic – follows a definite plot or theme. Tends to be dramatic, emotive, somewhat oblique, introspective, unconventional. His life seems to reflect his choreographic vent.

Igor’s seems to go by feelings or what feels like so his choreographic style tends to be organic … elemental … emotional expressed in a more controlled way thus seemingly limited, predictable, and conventional … (the ‘boring’ factor comes to mind).

Dean’s tends to be fast-paced, sometimes frantic/frenetic, demanding …, thematic, nuanced, avant-garde, explorative. C/B’s FD clearly captures or epitomizes his style.

Zueva’s more like Balanchine enamored with forms, THE look, poetry, and aesthetics (G & G perfectly captured her innate style). Choreographs around performers’ strenghts and weaknesses – perfect example_ Davis and White whose athletism and academe inspired the style (their 2010 and 2014 FD showed that) while Virtue and Moir’s romanticism wove the mood of the program (as evidenced by their 2010 and 2014 FD) and now that style is even more evident in S/K’s program (I think she sees the two as the descendent V/M – sadly Victoria doesn’t have the flair of Tessa, Nikita, on the other hand is the better actor but lacks the maturity and stability of Scott). She read the Italians’ personality and talents well but overestimated their ability to step away from their usual norms/comfort zones (Dance Macabre is a perfect example). She’s a little confused with what to do with Shibs …. C/B would have done well artistically with her – this team’s versatility would have inspired great choreography. Too bad, that’s not possible because of the choreographers’ feud (remember the duo’s first Chopin program? So much promise).
 
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CAS

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
From my knowledge I don't think a lot of ice dance judges have a dance background and could recognize or analyze the dances the same way as Astrid56. They have a skating background and not necessarily ice dance specific. I think Chock and Bates will struggle with this FD. It was more interesting on paper, the execution and end result not so much.
 

Astrid56

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Based on the results, I'd say that the skating judges haven't moved away from what they were used to: the old system very evident in the way they score programs. Still stuck to the past - the old view of what constitutes great choreography/program. ISU is trying to innovate to enhance Ice-dancing entertainment value to expand its audience/appeal but if the judges refuse to embrace new ideas/perspective, ISU's goal won't happen. Anyway, it would be great if they can bring in someone as an additional judge who truly knows dance.

As regards Chock/Bates, I think if they stick to their agenda - skate their FD with confidence and conviction, they'll succeed. I believe, the Italians (Cappellini and Lanotte) struggled skating their 'Dance Macabre' FD because they weren't totally sold on the program.
 
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