The best technician in the world

plushyfan · Oct 16, 2016

Blades of Passion said:
It's definitely Hanyu, he has everything. If Plushenko was 10-15 years younger, then likely it would be him right now.

In that era Plushenko didn't need to do other type of quads in competition but he landed in 4S in Samara during the 2004 Russian Cup series. He landed in 4Lz in practices, even in the morning training of competition. He tried once at CoR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEvVzq_uyA but he fell. I'm sure if he had been forced to do it he could land in competitions. In that time they concentrated the quad combos.

Don't forget If he had been forced to do anything he would have learned it. His talent is endless plus his work ethic is unique.

plushyfan · Oct 16, 2016

4everchan said:
so you mean in 2015-16 season no calls... that's one season. Just saying. Not two. That's good. Still, I wouldn't call his lutz and flip the models to follow.

Why do you want to deny what is obvious? his Lz is perfect

both video in english language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCJ2zUwKNzU&t=0m35s 15 y.o. perfect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prB1kNhnGPI&t=0m55s he was just 16. perfect! He won silver at World CHampionships!!

mcq · Oct 16, 2016

I think it is tricky to compare skaters from different generation. Skaters from the newer generation would generally have better technique than the older ones, because, well, by watching and learning from skaters from the earlier generation, coaches and skaters could improve on the technique executed by the younger ones. There are rare cases like Midori ito in the ladies field, who in my opinion is still unsurpassed in terms of jumping prowess (and on top of that she has good skating skills too!). But in general newer skaters would take and learn from earlier skaters and carry it a step further. There is also perhaps additional assistance from technology, like advancement in boot/blades technology, that help in skating or jumping, making it a bit unfair to compare skaters from different era.
I might say currently I think Hanyu/Chan on average is the best technician however 5-10 years from now, who knows. my answer might change because men skaters perhaps jumping 4A left and right. :biggrin:

4everchan · Oct 16, 2016

not even talking about him LOL... maybe you should read better

?

as far as I know Plushy didn't skate in 2015-16

plushyfan said:
Why do you want to deny what is obvious? his Lz is perfect

both video in english language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCJ2zUwKNzU&t=0m35s 15 y.o. perfect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prB1kNhnGPI&t=0m55s he was just 16. perfect! He won silver at World CHampionships!!

and the commentators are talking about a huge lean on that jump you call perfect.. just saying

4everchan · Oct 16, 2016

mcq said:
I think it is tricky to compare skaters from different generation. Skaters from the newer generation would generally have better technique than the older ones, because, well, by watching and learning from skaters from the earlier generation, coaches and skaters could improve on the technique executed by the younger ones. There are rare cases like Midori ito in the ladies field, who in my opinion is still unsurpassed in terms of jumping prowess (and on top of that she has good skating skills too!). But in general newer skaters would take and learn from earlier skaters and carry it a step further. There is also perhaps additional assistance from technology, like advancement in boot/blades technology, that help in skating or jumping, making it a bit unfair to compare skaters from different era.
I might say currently I think Hanyu/Chan on average is the best technician however 5-10 years from now, who knows. my answer might change because men skaters perhaps jumping 4A left and right.

i totally agree. the sport is always evolving.

plushyfan · Oct 16, 2016

4everchan said:
not even talking about him LOL... maybe you should read better ?

as far as I know Plushy didn't skate in 2015-16and the commentators are talking about a huge lean on that jump you call perfect.. just saying

oops..sorry ! :scratch2:

I read quickly and not all posts. I'm cooking right now.

And the jumps in Hava Nagila was huge, long and it has beautiful flow from it..

Marin · Oct 16, 2016

What I never liked in Plushy is that he has little flow into his jumps. Also Plushenko "lip" as daylight for ages and had very few transitions, that is the key of his consistency imo.

Li'Kitsu · Oct 16, 2016

I'd agree that it is difficult to compare skaters from different eras. We don't know how Plush would have fared in today field, or what Yuzu would have pulled of in Plush's. However, I don't think the comparison is necessary - Plush was the best technician in his time, Yuzu is the best now. Easy as that

4everchan said:
I suggested pure movements, clean positions, good clear edges etc.. but i got the flames and the pitchforks for being a Chan fan who would be wishing ill to other competitors... Chan fans don't do that, quite the opposite. We just happen to like a very particular kind of skating

oh well to each his own. I think the "who is the best threads" should be kept in the cafe section of the forum

Over-dramatic much? No one said anything to your suggestion of what a good technician is, or said you'd wish someone else bad. You got one arguably harsh comment for saying Yuzu gets flip edge calls - which simply wasn't true for last season (and barely for the one before).

And the fact that we can argue about what 'best technician' means doesn't make this thread 'iffy', it just is one more point to discuss. Which belongs just fine on a discussion board.

plushyfan · Oct 16, 2016

Marin said:
What I never liked in Plushy is that he has little flow into his jumps. Also Plushenko "lip" as daylight for ages and had very few transitions, that is the key of his consistency imo.

into? The other skaters had no TRs, too in the past but they fell.

Mathman · Oct 16, 2016

karne said:
IMO, Hanyu cannot be considered for this distinction...

That is why I say Plushenko….

The OP is asking about currently active skaters. Otherwise, Dick Button. :yes:

Yatagarasu · Oct 16, 2016

Hanyu, hands down.

This thread and BoP got me thinking though that I really would have liked to see Plushy skating under this system and in this time. He would have had to adjust of course and I think we maybe would have seen more from him because he would have had Hanyu's mentality of this year, pushing further and not settling in this enviorment, combined with everything else that is necessary to be on top today. Ah if wishes were horses ...

Tolstoj · Oct 16, 2016

Boyang Jin.

The fact you win every year (referring to Hanyu and Javi) doesn't mean you're the best jumper, especially when you don't even know what is a quad lutz because judges gives insane GOEs for you elements (mostly because of the reputation/ranking).

Jin doesn't have a quad flip yet (or maybe he has, we will see it), but that's not too much to worry because Shoma's or Nathan's Quad flip aren't good, while Jin's quad lutz is the best quad in the world in terms of difficulty and quality and his quad sal and quad toe aren't that bad while the base value of his programs from last season are still top notch.

HanDomi · Oct 16, 2016

Tolstoj said:
Boyang Jin.

The fact you win every year (referring to Hanyu and Javi) doesn't mean you're the best jumper, especially when you don't even know what is a quad lutz because judges gives insane GOEs for you elements (mostly because of the reputation/ranking).

Jin doesn't have a quad flip yet (or maybe he has, we will see it), but that's not too much to worry because Shoma's or Nathan's Quad flip aren't good, while Jin's quad lutz is the best quad in the world in terms of difficulty and quality and his quad sal and quad toe aren't that bad while the base value of his programs from last season are still top notch.

So, does one jump make a skater the best technical skater ? It's serious question. What about lack of transitions , quality steps and spins ?
i agree his quad lutz looks great, but his other quads in my opinion aren't thing of beauty , lacking flow a lot with long setup

Lambari · Oct 16, 2016

Personally, I favor quality so a Hanyu + Chan combo would make the perfect technician combo (and with fabulous artistic qualities as well

)

Boyang Jin has the 4Lutz going and even if I came to really like the guy I don't find his jumps that aesthetically pleasing in terms of flow (except the 4Lz) and not particularly challenging in entries and exits. (He does the 4Lz so I can half excuse him for going straight into his jumps ... )

I acknowledge Pushenko's consistency but never was a fan of his jumps, too straight up and down and without flair on the landing for me; a bit of the same for Yagudin but less. I can't explain how but mostly russian guys have this jump technique where they go up and down like a rock and go to the next element straight up like nothing happened with a blank face but not in a "Look how it's easy for me!" kind of way, more like "Here. That's a jump. So, moving on.". It throws me off. It's so evident in someone like Adian Pitkeev for example. Kolyada is an exception.

Chan also have the post-jump black face syndrome (I nitpick so much, lord) but It doesn't bother me because his jumps have enourmous flow. Hanyu has the post-jump oomph pat down, his eyes might shoot laser some day.

TGee · Oct 16, 2016

Uhm, I can understand why some are uncomfortable with a "Who's the best ........? type of thread as the lack of generally accepted idea about what "best" means can lead to friction....

But I am finding this a really helpful discussion. And as a fan forum, IMO GS threads on what does it mean to be the best technician, or have the best skills, deepest edges etc. do seem to help us all learn more about skating and challenge us to think about it in different ways. :cool2:

And when the conversation is respectful, it is helping me to look at some skaters in new ways, which is a great reason to keep coming back...

Li'Kitsu · Oct 16, 2016

Crossover said:
My favorite 3A so far in the current men's field is Han Yan's because his 3A has explosive power, fluidity and masculinity with a huuuuuuuuuge distance and height.

I completely missed that the first time reading this post - what on earth is a masculine jump? :scratch2:

Yatagarasu · Oct 16, 2016

Li'Kitsu said:
I completely missed that the first time reading this post - what on earth is a masculine jump?

The one that makes you think you're hearing chest thumping while someone far away is yelling RAWR because real man do it that way? Or something.

Tolstoj · Oct 16, 2016

HanDomi said:
So, does one jump make a skater the best technical skater ? It's serious question. What about lack of transitions , quality steps and spins ?
i agree his quad lutz looks great, but his other quads in my opinion aren't thing of beauty , lacking flow a lot with long setup

It could be since it's the most difficult quad and he does with ease. Can be a skater who doesn't even know what a Quad Flip or a quad Lutz is the best technician? In my opinion no, he can't.

We are talking about technique so we should consider everything that defines the TES, so the transitions aren't included and everything about the artistry can't be considered; there isn't that much to argue about his steps and spins, when everything is level 4 (level 3 and level 4 in the LP) at his best, personally I don't find anything wrong with his spins and steps.

His Lutz is +3 most of the time, and the quad sal, quad toe +1, +2 (sometimes even +3 like he got at the four continents)

The problem here is that his programs are so difficult and when he's tired (especially in the long) everything isn't that pleasing to watch and the elements are downgraded. (this is something you'll see quite often in Nathan's FS this season)

TGee · Oct 16, 2016

Yatagarasu said:
The one makes you think you're hearing chest thumping while someone far away is yelling RAR because real man do it that way? Or something.

My take away is that there are some differences in aesthetic preferences on landing posture. Not sure it belongs in a technical discussion.

But I will note that there are some that think that a heads up, showman flair after a jump, either for men or ladies is part of demonstrating that you have the one foot landing. And it can get trained in early as kids learn to hold landings for 2 - 3 seconds. It looks better than visibly counting "one Mississippi, two....". Christopher Bowman was very noticeable in doing this, whether live or on video.

Others find this breaks the artistic mood or flow.

From a technical perspective, I've noticed that some coaches, particularly in the Russian coaching tradition, do not encourage the heads up landing, as it gets in the way of combination jumps. The chin needs to be slightly down for the take off for the second jump in the combination. If the body memory is for heads up landings with the chin towards the ceiling, then the skater will have to get the head back down for the second jump.

HanDomi · Oct 16, 2016

Tolstoj said:
It could be since it's the most difficult quad and he does with ease. Can be a skater who doesn't even know what a Quad Flip or a quad Lutz is the best technician? In my opinion no, he can't.

But then if we are talking about quads. Isn't a skater who can do quad loop from spread eagle technically perfect to do something like that ?

The best technician in the world

plushyfan

plushyfan

mcq

4everchan

4everchan

plushyfan

Marin

"Efforts tell lies, but it will not be in vain."

Li'Kitsu

plushyfan

Mathman

Yatagarasu

Tolstoj

HanDomi

Lambari

TGee

Li'Kitsu

Yatagarasu

Tolstoj

TGee

HanDomi

Similar threads

Connect with us