2017 Canadian Nats Senior Short Dance

4everchan · Jan 9, 2017

Ares said:
I am so tired of G/P getting flak still :hopelessness: Poor skating skills, shallow edges etc. I don't think Piper is as bad as people want to portray her here She's pretty good right now. They make steady improvement since 2014 in my oppinion and look like team with great potential for the future.

i think that fans of any of the 3 Canadian Ice dance teams should just calm down and enjoy Nationals... the 3 teams will give us quite a good show!!!! and wow!!! yes... I am so excited... I have been a fan and still am a fan of all 3 teams for different reasons... honestly, I am simply hoping they skate well... all of them... i don't care where they will end up as they will be going to worlds... i think it's wonderful that we do have 3 great teams and 3 spots!!! YAY!!!

So, no need to make a mess out of this thread before the event starts

I am sure there will be enough drama when it's on... :drama:

my 2 cents...

ETA PS : i quoted your post Ares because I agree with you... I think that Piper has improved tremendously.

Emilia12 · Jan 10, 2017

Two little points: No one mentioned WP's skating skills degraded because they didn't, it actually improved since the last time I saw them, a bit slower yes, but that's understandable I guess they will take care of it by the second half of the season, but the dippness and their starch are fantastic, not a huge fan of Morozov as a person, but he knows how to get a job done.

The main problem with Weaver and Poje at DSC was not choreography, Pasquale Camerlengo is the best choreographer out there, his programs are always great, the problem was that they used the same thechnical elements over and over again, yes some of them was brilliant, but they all were overused. Programs this season are 80% completely new, I guess what they needed was some fresh perspective, and they definitely got it.

ancientpeas · Jan 11, 2017

I can't believe we are arguing in the SD thread of Canadian nationals with more than a week to go until the event is skated.

I'm assuming it will be V/M, W/P, and P/P. I'll be really interested to see some of the lower teams SDs. Shame about P/I not being there.

I'm not the biggest fan of Piper btw but I do feel she has improved a lot and she has a fun personality that comes across on the ice very well.

I'm way more worried about the SP for Pairs than for Dance. I'll be happy with V/M, W/P and P/P going to worlds and Olympics next year. I'd actually love to see W/P get a chance to skate the FD for the team event (if it's already in the stars that they won't win a medal then I'd love to see them at least get a team medal and I think V/M said that skating both programs was difficult for them of course this will mean that Chan and probably Osmond will have to do the SD and the LP.). When it comes to Pairs I'm worried S/B or I/M won't make the team.

SarahSynchro · Jan 11, 2017

Good grief, this thread makes me want to start drinking already, meanwhile the short dance is still nine days away.

KMK0902 · Jan 11, 2017

Sackie said:
I really think W/P's best years are behind them. They had 2 great years where they seemed on top of the world and had great chances to win worlds and both times they came up short as far as the judges were concerned. I don't think they will get any such chances again and I think they know it and are therefore feeling the pressure a bit more and that is what causes their mistakes.

Sadly, I think you're right

I love them, but they don't seem to "have it" anymore..

Emilia12 · Jan 12, 2017

Weaver and Poje are fine. They are back to the position where they get zero support from Skate Canada, but with their skating they are fine. Their SD is fantastic, and the FD grew between CoR and CoC, I'm sure it will grow even more at the second half of the season. Plus, everyone who's not doing the "death by contemporary lyrical" that over 80% of top Ice dance couples are doing this season, are automatically a big favorite of mine. The same goes to Gillis and Poirier

Sackie · Jan 12, 2017

But Emilia12 - with no support from Skate Canada this could mean they end up 3rd at Nationals and if this happens do you think they have a chance at even being top 5 at worlds? I really don't see them factoring in the top 5 at worlds this year. I think even skating fine they still could end up as low as 8ths at this years worlds. I really think they need to be a close 2nd here at Nationals or else. I know it was the luck of the draw that they didn't make the GPF and that the 3rd USA team did - but by making the final D/H I think moved up in international rankings in the judges eye.

Emilia12 · Jan 12, 2017

Who knows... There are really no reason for Weaver and Poje to end up third unless they do some serious mistakes, so close second finish is something very achievable, after that they just have to give their best.. maybe this season they will be able to build up their momentum for the second half of the season in a better way than what they did past couple of season. Everything can happen, and I won't write them off the possibility to end up on the podium again this year.

Ares · Jan 12, 2017

Sackie said:
But Emilia12 - with no support from Skate Canada this could mean they end up 3rd at Nationals and if this happens do you think they have a chance at even being top 5 at worlds? I really don't see them factoring in the top 5 at worlds this year. I think even skating fine they still could end up as low as 8ths at this years worlds. I really think they need to be a close 2nd here at Nationals or else. I know it was the luck of the draw that they didn't make the GPF and that the 3rd USA team did - but by making the final D/H I think moved up in international rankings in the judges eye.

I don't think that their place at Nationals will influence judges all that much. People just like to put in their own assumption into everything so to overanalyse any possible factor with their shoulda-coulda-woulda. I think it's false and leads nowhere. That's one thing that I dislike about message boards with discussions that are not such in real life meaning.

I would not be surprised if W/P were to be surpassed in this season or the next one by G/P regardless of Nationals outcome, their Total PB is only 0,36 point behind right now. That having said W/P are favourites for 2nd place in Canada Championships given their record and class.

nocturnalis · Jan 12, 2017

It wouldn't be surprising if Piper and Paul beat Weaver and Poke. Paul used to always defeat them when he was with Vanessa and they've had time to hell and catch up. Piper isn't the best, but she's not the worse. They have great crowd pleasing material with excellently performed lifts and since they have complicated step sequences, they rarely have trouble getting their levels anymore.

moon · Jan 13, 2017

W/P had a very late start this year, CSOI and then coach shopping until they landed with Morosov. They were not ready for the GP season. As far as Skate Canada not supporting them I dont agree. However, my idea of support may be different than what you are talking about. W/P showed some very iffy elements, in particular footwork sequences at their GP's which were kindly overlooked in my opinion. That is what I call support. "Would you please cut one of our top teams some slack judges and tech panel we need them to do well in order to stay in the top ten and get three teams to the olympics etc" Any other lower ranked team would not have received the levels they did if they had performed them in the same manner.
After saying that though I still do believe that now that W/P have had time to train their programs and perhaps tweak some of their elements that they should and will beat GP. Leaving the technical aspects aside WP have speed with a freedom of movement compared to G/P robotic like performances.

Sackie · Jan 13, 2017

But when was the last time SC didn't have the National Champs skate at Skate Canada? But instead gave that spot to a returning team! That to me shows lack of support!
And what does their marks at their GP events have to do with Skate Canada?

SnowWhite · Jan 13, 2017

Sackie said:
But when was the last time SC didn't have the National Champs skate at Skate Canada? But instead gave that spot to a returning team! That to me shows lack of support!
And what does their marks at their GP events have to do with Skate Canada?

But V/M aren't just some returning team. They are two-time world champions, Olympic gold and silver medallists, six-time national champions, etc. Of course they would want them at SC. If Meryl and Charlie decided to come back, you don't think the US fed would want them at SA? And honestly, given their later start to the year, SC wouldn't have been the ideal GP placement for W/P anyways.

moon · Jan 13, 2017

Their marks at their GPs have everything to do with Skate Canada. The same as how the Russian Fed and U.S. Fed can affect the marks of their teams. I am not singling W/P out by the way it happens for all the various Feds favorites. Say Canada has 3 teams at an event you can bet the Canadian judge is going to be lobbying the other judges on the panel to look kindly on their top team so that they get continued good marks. That is to give them a little more than they deserve and look the other way when there is a mistake. The other Canadian teams at the event may not get the same consideration because there is only so much to trade back and forth with. This goes on with all Federations. You can choose to believe it or not but it has always been a part of ice dance and it continues to be a real problem. Unfortunately if you really don't have an understanding of exactly what has to be done to get a level it is hard to discern in ice dance when a team has executed their elements well. I always see people saying, "but that was a clean performance" when there were wrong edges used, incomplete shallow turns , missed bullets in lifts etc. The game playing gets worse and worse as we get closer to the Olympics. Some of the performances I have seen this year from countries supposed top teams or their only team and the marks that were received for those performances is just astounding.

SnowWhite · Jan 13, 2017

moon said:
Their marks at their GPs have everything to do with Skate Canada. The same as how the Russian Fed and U.S. Fed can affect the marks of their teams. I am not singling W/P out by the way it happens for all the various Feds favorites. Say Canada has 3 teams at an event you can bet the Canadian judge is going to be lobbying the other judges on the panel to look kindly on their top team so that they get continued good marks. That is to give them a little more than they deserve and look the other way when there is a mistake. The other Canadian teams at the event may not get the same consideration because there is only so much to trade back and forth with. This goes on with all Federations. You can choose to believe it or not but it has always been a part of ice dance and it continues to be a real problem. Unfortunately if you really don't have an understanding of exactly what has to be done to get a level it is hard to discern in ice dance when a team has executed their elements well. I always see people saying, "but that was a clean performance" when there were wrong edges used, incomplete shallow turns , missed bullets in lifts etc. The game playing gets worse and worse as we get closer to the Olympics. Some of the performances I have seen this year from countries supposed top teams or their only team and the marks that were received for those performances is just astounding.

Okay, but it's not like W/P have competed against V/M this season, so I'm not sure how this specifically would affect their scores.

MsSweetie · Jan 13, 2017

juliajk said:
It that was the case, they'd be retiring this season, not changing coaches, their entire skating technique and moving to other side of the globe.
They are going trough a huge change, things like that need time, which they don't have unfortunately, and that's my only concern. But they are willing to fight for their place, and they can succeed, their material is really really good this year.

They may need a year to get in sync with all the new... and hopefully will be good to go once the Olympics come along. Well gelled.

tulosai · Jan 13, 2017

Doesn't anyone else like all three of the top teams???? :scratch2:

ancientpeas · Jan 13, 2017

tulosai said:
Doesn't anyone else like all three of the top teams????

Me, me! I like all top 3 team. P/P have my favourite SD and FD of the year so far. I have a soft spot for Kaitlyn Weaver. She's an ugly crier and we ugly criers have to stick together.

maddiesparks · Jan 13, 2017

tulosai said:
Doesn't anyone else like all three of the top teams????

I like all 3. I think the contention lies within the fact that the pecking order hasn't been reestablished since VM returned and threw it into a little turmoil, but once Nats is out of the way, hopefully speculation won't be as ardent.

I do think that WP deserve to stay #2 if they skate clean, but I wouldn't be mad if GP somehow snagged that spot (they do have the momentum). Both teams have great (very different!) programs, though and I'm excited for next weekend.

Mango · Jan 13, 2017

I think Weaver/Poje being assigned to two later events was probably better for them. But they also decided to train in Russia and have a strong connection with the country, so I'm not surprised that they were assigned to Rostelecom Cup. Tessa & Scott seem to have gotten the SCI assignment on the basis of their history, as SnowWhite mentioned. Only Skate America was earlier, and that event had no Canadian teams.

As maddiesparks says, I think the reason we're having this discussion is because we don't know who's #2 in Canada right now. Though I think the speculation might end after Nationals, I don't think the discussion will, especially if the hierarchy changes.

To get back to the topic of this thread, here are Piper & Paul in their SD run through at Nationals send off: http://dai.ly/x57rco5
Those twizzles are still a bit :drama:

for me because of how close they are.

2017 Canadian Nats Senior Short Dance

4everchan

Emilia12

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

SarahSynchro

KMK0902

Emilia12

Sackie

Emilia12

Ares

nocturnalis

moon

Sackie

SnowWhite

moon

SnowWhite

MsSweetie

tulosai

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

maddiesparks

Mango

Royal Chinet 👑🍽️

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