Was it a split panel on ... | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Was it a split panel on ...

Verbalgirl77

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Let's put it this way. My dad (who dislikes skating quite a bit) still stopped to see what I was watching when he saw "that Harvard guy" would be on.

I think it's just a great Olympic story, how he accomplished so much at school and was able to squeak onto the Olympic team before he retired. He ended his career with a personal best competition at the Olympics with two of the best men's programs I've ever seen (in terms of choreography & music). He's one of the very few chill-inducing skaters I've seen. He was clearly thrilled with how he did, as opposed to the other men. I think that stuck in people's minds.

It is amusing how Viktor got away with that old recycled music, considering all the hubub from judges regarding S&P's recycled LP in 2002. It's not a deduction, it's all relative.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Regardless of the Viktor preference, the eastern bloc was against Wylie. The EU put him in 5th place after the LP. Just in case it turned into a tie, Wylie would not rise above the second place. Oh, the subjectivity of it all!! :sheesh: .

Joe
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
VIETgrlTerifa, you can down top 6/7 men's 92 LP's from this site. (properly need register)

http://www.meiyang.cn/ASP/2635/dispbbs.asp?BoardID=419&ID=2150&replyID=36720&skin=1

Thanks for all the answers. I didn't watched all of them when I made my first post. Now after I finishing watching all of them, I feel all the rest of field had better choreo than Petrenko. Though his music choice argubaly is more atractive. IMO, 5/4 split panel is more reasonable. I had no idear of the status of each of these top men at 92. So I had no bias when I watching these clips. Just pure play try judging, lol.

Now review the latest Olympics FS judging history, I just hope the judge panel could be more consistant. If they favored more tech contents than better choreo/artistry by rewarding Petrenko 92 OGM than they should reward Nancy 94 lady OGM (that's why I say 5/4 split is more reasonable, was it a 5/4 split at 94 lady?). My personal preference is Paul for 92 man, Bauil for 94 lady and B/S for 2002 pair. Quite consistant eh? That's the reason why I like the CoP, more or less it force judge put number on each element, make it more objective.
 
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JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Personally, despite some off jump landings, I would have given the gold to Petr Barna -- IMO he had the most interesting program of the top 3. I'd've put Wylie 2nd and Petrenko 3rd, if not lower.

I was always rather disappointed with Petrenko -- he really impressed me when he won the bronze in 88 and I expected a lot of great things from him, but as far as I'm concerned he never really lived up to his promise.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Joesitz said:
Regardless of the Viktor preference, the eastern bloc was against Wylie. The EU put him in 5th place after the LP. Just in case it turned into a tie, Wylie would not rise above the second place. Oh, the subjectivity of it all!! :sheesh: .
Joe

Eastern bloc against Wylie??? As far as I notice on my tape, the countries of the judges were AUS, FIN, EUN, ITA, CAN, TCH, JPN, USA and FRA. That means only two judgies coming from "eastern bloc". And it was posted on this thread that seven judges gave Petrenko the win.

Unfortunately on German Eurosport the placements were not shown, only scores. In freeskate Petrenko skated before Wylie:

Petrenko
AUS FIN EUN ITA CAN TCH JPN USA FRA
5,6 / 5,8 / 5,8 / 5,8 / 5,8 / 5,7 / 5,7 / 5,8 / 5,8 technical
5,8 / 5,9 / 5,8 / 5,8 / 5,7 / 5,8 / 5,9 / 5,9 / 5,9 artistic
AUS 1

Wylie
AUS FIN EUN ITA CAN TCH JPN USA FRA
5,6 / 5,7 / 5,6 / 5,8 / 5,8 / 5,4 / 5,6 / 5,9 / 5,7 technical
5,9 / 5,9 / 5,7 / 5,7 / 5,9 / 5,8 / 5,9 / 5,8 / 5,8 artistic

From the Japanese skating link provided, I see that the judges from AUS and CAN are those who put Wylie on 1st place. Not even the US judge...

Also I would like to point out that the scores given to Wylie by the TCH judge were surely because of Barna (he got the bronze) and not for Petrenko being a FSU skater. So, the accusation about "an eastern bloc" being against Wylie is not quite rightful in this competition, in my opinion. It is actually a big majority, " the western bloc", being for Petrenko (seven judges for Petrenko and the whole judge panel having only two "eastern bloc" judges, so five came from "western bloc), LOL.

Marjaana
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Just for the record, I did not use the term 'bloc'. I did cite the EU for giving him 5th place, There was no 'bloc' at that time. It was playing with scores.

Joe
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Joesitz said:
Just for the record, I did not use the term 'bloc'. I did cite the EU for giving him 5th place, There was no 'bloc' at that time. It was playing with scores.

Joe

LOL, Joe, this is what you mention in your previous message, as you see the words "eastern bloc was against Wylie" are there:

Joesitz said:
Regardless of the Viktor preference, the eastern bloc was against Wylie. The EU put him in 5th place after the LP. Just in case it turned into a tie, Wylie would not rise above the second place. Oh, the subjectivity of it all!! :sheesh: .

Joe[/QUOTE

I rooted for Wylie and hoped him to win, I always liked his skating very much. But had to comment here, because one has to be fair...
 
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JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Jaana said:
From the Japanese skating link provided, I see that the judges from AUS and CAN are those who put Wylie on 1st place. Not even the US judge...


The US judge, Hugh Graham, has stated that ONE of the reasons he didn't go for Wylie in the long was for fear of getting cited for National Bias, given the fact that Wylie's reputation and record was such that he doubted very much that any other judges would have voted for him. In addition, Wylie used to skate Pairs with Graham's daughter, so if he'd voted for Wylie in the long and no-one else did he would have been under additional scrutiny.
 

berthes ghost

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Only 3 judges seem to really be out of order.

The Canadian Judge gave Kurt 2nd in LP behind Paul and above Vik when everyone else had him anywhere from 4th to 9th.

The former USSR judge and the Tsch judge had Urmanov in 3rd ahead of Paul when most agreed that he was no better than 6th.
 

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
92 Mens

Listing the jumps completed does not tell the whole story. Petrenko's jumps were more powerful. I believe he won that competition.

He also had a good long run as a pro. Considering that he didn't represent the USA during his eligible career, to have been so popular in the USA shows is something to respect. I was never crazy about him, but I did adore his Mambo with the doll. He had the audicity to poke fun at his own sport.

One other note: there are some who figure that Victor got "extra credit" for being the bronze medalist in the previous Olympics. I say "Posh". The ladies competition at the same Olympics also included the bronze medalist from the previous Olympics. Didn't get her any "extra credit"...

Linny
 

berthes ghost

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Linny said:
One other note: there are some who figure that Victor got "extra credit" for being the bronze medalist in the previous Olympics. I say "Posh". The ladies competition at the same Olympics also included the bronze medalist from the previous Olympics. Didn't get her any "extra credit"...
Posh Spice?
:laugh: Anyway, you're confused on two things.

1) Debi Thomas was most certainly not at the Albertville games.
2) I assume you were talking about Kira Ivanova, who won bronze in Sarajevo but finished 7th in Calgary. Things that people call "extra credit" only come into play in close competitions. Although 1st after figures, Kira basically melted down, finishing 10th is the SP and 9th in the LP. You should watch her calgary LP again, it's almost as bad as Latitia Hubert's from Albertville or Nicole Bobeck's from Nagano. After a while, Dick just ran out of things to say, it was like watching a car accident. :cry:
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
IMO Kira Ivanova pretty much gets the ISU All-Time What Was Up With THAT Award...... a mediocre talent AT BEST and how she won that bronze in Sarajevo I'll never figure out; ANYONE else in the top 10 after figures would have been a much more valid choice. Tho I will grant that at the 87 Worlds, she did actually show some semblance of style in her long program.
 

Verbalgirl77

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think Linny's referring to Nancy Kerrigan.

In addition, Wylie used to skate Pairs with Graham's daughter, so if he'd voted for Wylie in the long and no-one else did he would have been under additional scrutiny.

I forgot about that. But then you have the Ukrainian judge giving Baiul the nod over Kerrigan, even though his son was Oksana's former coach. Yet I think the only judge who managed to dodge the spotlight in 1994 was the Ukrainian judge. :laugh:

Yay for Canada & Austria!
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Jaana said:
LOL, Joe, this is what you mention in your previous message, as you see the words "eastern bloc was against Wylie" are there:

Joesitz said:
Regardless of the Viktor preference, the eastern bloc was against Wylie. The EU put him in 5th place after the LP. Just in case it turned into a tie, Wylie would not rise above the second place. Oh, the subjectivity of it all!! :sheesh: .

Joe[/QUOTE

I rooted for Wylie and hoped him to win, I always liked his skating very much. But had to comment here, because one has to be fair...

You're rightJaana, but what I didn't type was that 'the beginning of the eastern bloc' because the EU was the unified team.. It was just the EU and Tchech that judged him way down the list concentrating on Petrenko, Urmanov and Barna. And Piseev wants to keep the judging in secrecy. Why? If all is fair, why not let the audience see who gave what to whom.

Joe
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
About the biased judge.

I've always been under the impression that Canadian and Rusian judges are the two most outraged biased against the direct competitor to their own skaters if their own skater is the Gold or Madel contender, they were never afraid of their scores to be out of the line. While the US judge were always more or less afraid been critisizing as National biased or their scores out of line. BG's comment is another example. JMO.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Canada and Russia do have that reputation, MZheng. I don't know whether it is justified overall or not. Just a different way of looking at the responsibilities of a judge, I guess. Is the judge there to represent his or her country, or to judge the skating? This is especially a tough question at the Olympics, when patriotic ferver runs high.

I very much support the movement to have the judges recruited, trained and paid directly by the ISU, so they do not have to go back home and face criticism in their own federation for not placing their homies higher.

This, of course, would mean that we will have to trust the ISU a lot more than most of us do now.

Mathman
 

floskate

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
I thought that on the night, Wylie should have won. His second triple axel was wobbly, but he did have a running edge before hopping round into the double toe.
ITA about prior resumes etc, but Wylie was so much better than Petrenko in the long - faster spins, better choreo, super steps, amazing presentation skills - and it's hard to top Victor in that dept! - and gorgeous MITF. I think if he hadn't doubled that second lutz, the judges might have had a harder time justifying their placement of Petrenko. JMO
 

tvcats

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Part of what I think hurt Paul is that he had never won a National Championship or a World medal. Because of that, he wasn't as highly regarded as Christopher Bowman or Todd Eldredge (both US Champions and World Medalists).

I guess it's a matter of perception. I have always put Paul in the "highly regarded" category.
 

floskate

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
tvcats said:
I guess it's a matter of perception. I have always put Paul in the "highly regarded" category.

Exactly. Every commentator I've listened to from his amateur skating days says the same thing - He was brilliant in practise and that the judges adored his skating but he never put it together when it mattered until those two nights in Albertville.
 
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