2017 Canadian Nats Senior Women's SP

well well...

i think i said it all already with two short interventions here earlier in the thread... ladies and men, so many groups, zamboni.. .it allowed me to chime in earlier...

however, I'd like to address a couple things...

i have watched these girls all season.... and both Gabby and Kaetlyn had by far their best skates of the season... Kaetlyn's 3f-3t was better than most men's today haha... actually, she would be in 3rd place had she skated with the men LOL and with a double axel only.

gabby's 3t-3t sometimes is wild but she manages to land it anyways... not today... that thing was PERFECTION... i haven't looked at GOE yet but i am going to hiss at any judge who didn't give it a +3... seriously... both girls have huge combos, tons of power and speed and they are both musical. The main difference is that Kaetlyn is more of an interpreter and like Rosie Di Manno says, "prostitutes get paid better these days"

To improve : Kaetlyn doesn't need to change anything in that SP... it's already all there
Gabby : it's a hard piece of music to connect to. There are a few moments where she could perhaps alter choreography to be more "connected" ... her jumps are stellar... she's done a lot of work already... perhaps, her spins, which surely do score well because she does them very well are a bit "cookie cutter".... Kaetlyn and Alaine have more interesting and personal spins.

Alaine : She simply needs to skate with freedom... I am not surprised at all that she had difficult landings.... she had no speed compared to last time I saw her live... but that SP is so nice... I hope she goes to 4CC and delivers... She needs to learn to trust her training.... She did the same thing Mirai did at ACi... Mirai had a huge lead going into the free... she was super fast in the warm up... when she started the LP, she was slow and URed her way through..

Scoring wise... i am sorry but if Medvedeva (no offense to her) can skip rope and make phone calls for top points, why not Kaetlyn? High scores happen everywhere at nationals... however, what I like about Canadian judges is that when it's good, they are not afraid of giving good scores, but when it's bad, they are not afraid to penalize either... look at the men.... they did badly... they were scored low.

I don't compare scores from competition to competition... so I do not care... we had a lot of fun having Kaetlyn in first place of the SPs until Kevin skated

Good job ladies..

Osmond has the best SP among all ladies this season, now if only she skates well LP...
and change the Lp dress.

Those marks of Osmond are just a joke))
- Clear flutz
- Level 4 and '+3' for step-sequence with a clear mistake??? Lol.
- '+3' for spins with no flexibility??? Lol
- bad school in choreography
- not many hard transitions/

i beg to disagree on many of these points.

Vladimir said:

Those marks of Osmond are just a joke))
- Clear flutz
- Level 4 and '+3' for step-sequence with a clear mistake??? Lol.
- '+3' for spins with no flexibility??? Lol
- bad school in choreography
- not many hard transitions/

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Your personal reports are greatly appreciated, 4everchan. I always find reports from competition attendees the most sincere and honest. While forum debates are often based on defending and building on existing beliefs and opinions, rinkside reports tend to be more open minded, exhibiting a willingness to let personal observations form more objective views and influence opinions held previously.

When you stated Kaetlyn would be 3rd among the Men today, did you use the relevant factoring for PCS? Might she have been 2nd? (I've not tried to calculate it myself but intend to sleep right after posting this. )

just the raw score... she'd be second or even first LOL with the factoring and thanks... seeing the skaters live is so different... and we are also different as viewers when at the rinks... we feel things collectively and the ohhhhss and the awwwwsss and the OMMMMGGGGG NOOOOOOOO OUCHHH... are often felt from everyone... And I think that the judges experience that too.

Violet Bliss said:

Your personal reports are greatly appreciated, 4everchan. I always find reports from competition attendees the most sincere and honest. While forum debates are often based on defending and building on existing beliefs and opinions, rinkside reports tend to be more open minded, exhibiting a willingness to let personal observations form more objective views and influence opinions held previously.

When you stated Kaetlyn would be 3rd among the Men today, did you use the relevant factoring for PCS? Might she have been 2nd? (I've not tried to calculate it myself but intend to sleep right after posting this. )

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kresslia said:

I've always felt SC liked Kaetlyn and Gabby best... I feel like it's going to be really tough for Alaine here. She really had to fight for that title last year, and it should be even more tough on her with Kaetlyn and Gabby succeeding internationally and her floundering.

Kaetlyn really has to eff up to lose this if you ask me. Her PCS is going to be through the roof.

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Well SC should prefer Osmond and Daleman. They have done far better this year and Osmond has historically shown far more potential. Sorry Alaine is lucky she is still constantly mentioned in the mix. She does not have the history as Osmond in particular and she has failed to provide killer memorable programs let alone great performances this skating year yet.

OS said:

Seriously... you are going to defend a score without a 3a or 3lz3t scoring the highest ever? at Canadian nationals? lol...

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The scores are all inflated but so are all nationals. Remember though Kaetlyn's 3F3T combo and 3 lutz as a sol o jump is owrht the same as a 3Z3T and sol 3F. Compared to the American ladies Both Osmond and Daleman in the short were cleanter, more powerful and artisically superior to the Americans Which is huge considering Gold and Wagner were both higher than all Canadians last year at worlds.

Skater Boy said:

The scores are all inflated but so are all nationals. Remember though Kaetlyn's 3F3T combo and 3 lutz as a sol o jump is owrht the same as a 3Z3T and sol 3F. Compared to the American ladies Both Osmond and Daleman in the short were cleanter, more powerful and artisically superior to the Americans Which is huge considering Gold and Wagner were both higher than all Canadians last year at worlds.

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I am not disputing Kaetlyn's SP is amazing so are other Canadian ladies. I have already expressed thinking she has the best SP of the season a few weeks ago. But most of these nationals scores are nothing short of propaganda designed to prop up their #1s at the expense of #2s, #3s. Pump up the volume on Federation rhetorics all the way to neverland (ISU judges bunker) to:

Make Canada great again!
Make Russia great again!
Make US great again!
Make Japan great again!
etc.. etc..

We might as well be getting 3t3t 3lz 2A programs of 82+ from Russia #1 now on, and there's no point for competition anymore if you are rank #2 and above.

Who's egos are bigger or more narcissistic?
Trump, Russian ISU judges or Canadian national judges (with Osmond in particular)
Hard to say.
;P

OS said:

I am not disputing Kaetlyn's SP is amazing so are other Canadian ladies. I have already expressed thinking she has the best SP of the season a few weeks ago. But most of these nationals scores are nothing short of propaganda designed to prop up their #1s at the expense of #2s, #3s. Pump up the volume on Federation rhetorics all the way to neverland (ISU judges bunker) to:

Make Canada great again!
Make Russia great again!
Make US great again!
Make Japan great again!
etc.. etc..

We might as well be getting 3t3t 3lz 2A programs of 82+ from Russia #1 now on, and there's no point for competition anymore if you are rank #2 and above.

Who's egos are bigger or more narcissistic?
Trump, Russian ISU judges or Canadian national judges (with Osmond in particular)
Hard to say.
;P

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honestly, this kind of propaganda is like bubble gum... just very sweet at first and then it tastes like nothing after a few chews and we just get rid of it...

it's very harmless if judges want to give super high PCS to a skater like Kaetlyn who normally gets quite high PCS anyways...

When it's bad is when they don't penalize for URs or give huge PCS for a skater who doesn't get close to average PCS in international settings.. We can see that even the National champion from 2016 got penalized for UR.... they didn't pretend it wasn't there...

I don't think there are issues with judging and scoring so far... and being at the rink doesn't mean I am an expert, but when I watch skating with GSers online or on TV... all I hear is verscored!!!!! underscored!!!!... Yesterday, nobody complained.... we all manifested in synch with the judges... but of course, we are polite Canadians lol

I'd rather see nationals judged more like international competitions because I think the skaters deserve consistency. If something is a 61 on the International scene and a 66 at nationals I think it does cause the younger, less experienced skaters confusion. You can see it on some of their faces when they go to international events skate better than they did at home and get less marks.

Someone was saying that the Japanese marking was pretty accurate (even if the UR calls were not) and I admire them for that.

But then again you have what I think of as style bias. If you have an entire panel of Canadian judges and if you believe there is a Canadian style (or Russian, American, Chinese or Japanese style) then the judges reactions in the PCS are probably going to be more consistent (and probably higher) than a mixed panel. If that makes sense.

OS said:

I am not disputing Kaetlyn's SP is amazing so are other Canadian ladies. I have already expressed thinking she has the best SP of the season a few weeks ago. But most of these nationals scores are nothing short of propaganda designed to prop up their #1s at the expense of #2s, #3s. Pump up the volume on Federation rhetorics all the way to neverland (ISU judges bunker) to:

Make Canada great again!
Make Russia great again!
Make US great again!
Make Japan great again!
etc.. etc..

We might as well be getting 3t3t 3lz 2A programs of 82+ from Russia #1 now on, and there's no point for competition anymore if you are rank #2 and above.

Who's egos are bigger or more narcissistic?
Trump, Russian ISU judges or Canadian national judges (with Osmond in particular)
Hard to say.
;P

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Oh for sure. Proportionately though Osmond and Daleman were better than all the Americans as to what they did this weekend. However, I don't think Osmond's fs will hold up to the top Americans unless she gets more conssitent. And I concur, with Osmonds short it probably is the best - and it was best performed so far at nats. I actually understand Medveda scoring more tech because she backloads BUT I do think Osmond on a good skate deserves the highes pcs which won't happen for a bit. Osmond will need to skate more consistent and the judges will continue bumping those pcs up. I do find it hard to believe that with the potential in Gold and the power of Ashley that Osmond really is starting to threaten their so called superiority. And Daleman looked mighty fine too. After the fs it might be clear that Chartrand is not in the same class and Daleman and Osmond will be Canada's push like Ashley and Gold - pending she getting it togehter. Of course, if Canada can,gulp earn three spots for ladies which will be very tough - their best hope is realistically that two Canadians beat all the Americans - then they have a realistic shot at three spots. There are so many good ladies - 3 Americans, 3 Russians 3 Japanese, Carolina and also strong skaters from China, S. Korea and usually one or two from former Russian countries. and this does not consider whatever French threat there is.

I think equal opportunity inflationary judging at nationals is OK as long as the tech panels are strict with the standard. We all have an idea of the corridor of marks for most skaters but tech callings are the difference makers other than any out of the corridor performance of a skater. Can fans and the skater himself/herself have reasonable confidence of results if the results depend much on the strictness or leniency of the tech panel? A national tech panel consistently very lenient like spoiling indulging parents does the skaters no real favours.

4everchan said:

just the raw score... she'd be second or even first LOL with the factoring and thanks... seeing the skaters live is so different... and we are also different as viewers when at the rinks... we feel things collectively and the ohhhhss and the awwwwsss and the OMMMMGGGGG NOOOOOOOO OUCHHH... are often felt from everyone... And I think that the judges experience that too.

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If I did it right, Kaetlyn would have got 90.54, right behind Chan, with the men's factoring.