2017 Europeans Mens FS | Page 47 | Golden Skate

2017 Europeans Mens FS

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
What's with all the Javi bashing on this thread? Are these Kovtun fans who are mad that Fernandez beat their boy?
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Javi's win only emphasises how much weaker European Men's field is than that of the "rest of skating world". There's just nobody who could threaten him, even if he has a bad skate. It makes judges treat him like he's special - and he sorta IS special in Europe. If Yuzuru had a skate like that at 4CCs, there'd be others who'd be capable of overtaking him, but there's no one in Europe to overtake Javi. If there had been, I think those GOEs would have been much less generous.

But Javi is getting the same PCS in not-Europeans competitions, so I'm not convinced the GOE would be treated that much differently.

What's with all the Javi bashing on this thread? Are these Kovtun fans who are mad that Fernandez beat their boy?

It's not Javi bashing - everybody likes charming Javi! - it's judges bashing ;)
 

cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Country
Poland
What's with all the Javi bashing on this thread? Are these Kovtun fans who are mad that Fernandez beat their boy?

Not all of us are bashing, some of us have a party in his Fan Fest :biggrin: I'm super happy for him, and frankly I count on him to get 6th consecutive title next season so he will be alone record holder fo most consecutive Euro titles :hap10:
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
What's with all the Javi bashing on this thread? Are these Kovtun fans who are mad that Fernandez beat their boy?
More like people are feeling desperate for European men in the general as Javi's the only top man they have at the moment, thus the judges give an unrealistic gap in their scores.
 

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
I've resigned myself to the fact that Javi will win again next season and then after that someone else will get their turn. I hope that by that time, Dima, Deniss, Moris and Daniel will be improved (among others). Maybe Adian will be back. And even if no other Euro man can get 300+ for the next 10 years it doesn't mean that they aren't perfectly worthy skaters. I'd rather watch any of those men than Javi these days - and I'm not a "basher" or hater of Javi...just bored with his style & the lack of variety.

I also think the competition will be much more exciting when there are several possible winners instead of one painfully obvious one.
 
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tureis

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
What's with all the Javi bashing on this thread? Are these Kovtun fans who are mad that Fernandez beat their boy?

Winners will always be criticized, no matter what. The performance, the scores, the music, the costume, this spin position, that jump landing, the coach's hair. And in this case, also desperation I guess, that this event really proved Javi can have a tough skate and still be head and shoulders above the field. People are eager to see upsets and drama, not boring predictability.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Javi's win only emphasises how much weaker European Men's field is than that of the "rest of skating world". There's just nobody who could threaten him, even if he has a bad skate. It makes judges treat him like he's special - and he sorta IS special in Europe. If Yuzuru had a skate like that at 4CCs, there'd be others who'd be capable of overtaking him, but there's no one in Europe to overtake Javi. If there had been, I think those GOEs would have been much less generous.

Meh.

Part of his successes are those uber inflated scores.

Here his FS wasn't the best really, and it was still 30 points higher than Kovtun's FS, and his TES almost 10 points higher than Moris TES.

Those scores don't reflect entirely what we saw on the ice.
 

tureis

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Oh please, show me a top male skater whose scores aren't inflated, especially when they have imperfect skates. Also, for the record, Javi's FS was 18 points higher than Kovtun's, not 30. Was Javi overscored? Yes, he was, but he still deserved much of that advantage over Kovtun. Javi should have been scored a few points lower on the GOE, and definitely shouldn't have gotten near 10s in PCS for this skate. That's just plain wrong. But Javi's BV was over 16 points higher than Kovtun's to begin with, and Kovtun isn't a great GOE skater outside of his quads to add a ton of points. Also, Kovtun sadly can't sell his stuff, and this FS was a perfect example of that. He put down his best skate in a very long time, he was going for a medal as the penultimate skater in a packed arena, but still the audience was losing interest a minute into the program. It very clearly took the sparkle out of Javi's performance when he smashed his hip into the ice. But for heaven's sake, he did his transition into the 3A 15 seconds after the fall, rotated the jump, somehow stayed on his feet, and fought through the rest of the program with the sort of grit instead that sets the champion skaters apart from the rest. Even Brian didn't suspect Javi badly hurt himself - he was asking if Javi was tired when he came off the ice bent over.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Yeah people are acting as if Javi skated as bad as he did at the GPF and still won. Which he would have - by 15 points.

The guy had a clean short. And landed a clean quad/3a and minor errors on a quad and other 3A... And he fell on his 3rd quad but still picked up 5.5 points. Scrappy other landings too and PCS was wayyyy too high but the result is the same. Had Javi fallen two more times he still would have won over Kovtun. As mentioned, the rest of the European field is rather weak at this point. Hendrickx - essentially the Jason Brown of Europe - ended up 4th with two almost clean skates but he doesn't even attempt a quad.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Last year Javi won by abut 60 points which was truly a terrible thing for European men's figure skating, so I'm kind of pleased to see the gap diminish to half this year...

Compared to GPF Javi's FS was technically much better - at GPF he tripled the first quad, fell the second 3A and even doubled some of the triples. Here, even after that fall he was able to perform quite well. Also as performances, these two outings had little to do with each other really. I was at first a bit disppointed at not getting the 200-pointer, but when I realized that he had done it all hurting a lot... Well, just amazed at what he could produce even at that situation! The jumps he did in the warm-up and practice sessions were just amazingly easy and smooth, and I really hope that by March he is able put that fully into competition.

It was interesting to compare the live experience of watching both Kovtun and Kolyada to the videos afterwards, because live their programs felt quite empty and unhappening apart from the elements, especially seen roughly around Javi's show. Kolyada has some feverish action between elements, but it tends to stop well in advance before the jumps in particular making the performance patchy and awkward. Kovtun had super great music and a great idea behind the program, but was unable to make it look understandable, interesting or touching. I did not even get the freeing of the bird in the beginning until he explained it at the press... Same with Kvitelashvili.

Vasiljevs :luv17: despite the missed 3A. If he had gotten that as per usual (GOE 0 or slightly over), he would have been 4th in the FS, btw. But the boy has everything else but the most difficult jumps (let's hope that the quads emerge soon!).

E
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Vasiljevs despite the missed 3A. If he had gotten that as per usual (GOE 0 or slightly over), he would have been 4th in the FS, btw. But the boy has everything else but the most difficult jumps (let's hope that the quads emerge soon!).

I completely agree with this comment. I think he has a very bright future and his clear love of skating comes across in his programs and the way he performs makes me smile. He has a great coach in Stephane and they seem to have a real connection which is something that can't be overlooked. That's why he reminds me so much of Jason Brown. I'm hoping for big things from both of them at Worlds. With Nathan looking like a lock for a top 5 finish and a possible Medal, Jason needs to finish in the top 8 and we're looking good going into the Olympic season.
 
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Yuii Murasaki

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
What's with all the Javi bashing on this thread? Are these Kovtun fans who are mad that Fernandez beat their boy?

I don't have anything against Javi and I'm not a Kovtun fan either. I just want the score to be more realistic. And I know it's the judges' fault.
190+ for that FS? Are you kidding me? :sarcasm:
 
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