She struggled with injury this year.
2017 Junior Worlds: Ladies recap
- Thread starter gsk8
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She struggled with injury this year.
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- Apr 4, 2016
I am not a fan of all of Zagitova's backloading, I really think the programs are so unbalanced and difficult for me to watch without being annoyed. I wanted Honda to beat her just because of that but it didn't seen to matter what she did there was no catching backloading/tanos. The scoring system really bugs me sometimes.
Do you think that Marin didn't backload all her jumps (because she is also doing that partially) because she wanted to please you?
Noo, but because it's damn difficult both mentally and physically.
In my opinion, Alina's program is very cleverly built and the backload is in line with the music, so I'm not at all disturbed by that, on the contrary.
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Every time someone does something unorthodox it is bound to have criticism. Why "balanced" should be the single standard, especially figure skating is at least partly art. I will be bored to death if everyone skates to the same "balanced" layout.
The major reason why I enjoy Russian girls is that they tend to have innovative choreography, and incorporate dance movements to match the music, especially on the junior level (Evgenia's robot dance for example, or Elena's sassy Latin sp). Japanese girls typically choose the safe/overused music and skate with generic movements, even though they can do it pretty (soft arms, nice wrist/finger gesture). If you look close, Marin, Yuna S., and Mai M. have very similar arm movement in their respective programs, and those movements are not specific to their individual programs. But you cannot replace Alina's LP with any other arm movements/gesture, and she challenged herself with two very different programs that require completely different styles. For this reason, I enjoy Eun soo a lot since her choreography is less generic. Wakaba also challenged herself with Scheherazade. Hope Marin can follow Mao's path in terms of diversity and variety. At this moment, I am not sure how she will do with a Tango, ballet, or Scheherazade program.
The major reason why I enjoy Russian girls is that they tend to have innovative choreography, and incorporate dance movements to match the music, especially on the junior level (Evgenia's robot dance for example, or Elena's sassy Latin sp). Japanese girls typically choose the safe/overused music and skate with generic movements, even though they can do it pretty (soft arms, nice wrist/finger gesture). If you look close, Marin, Yuna S., and Mai M. have very similar arm movement in their respective programs, and those movements are not specific to their individual programs. But you cannot replace Alina's LP with any other arm movements/gesture, and she challenged herself with two very different programs that require completely different styles. For this reason, I enjoy Eun soo a lot since her choreography is less generic. Wakaba also challenged herself with Scheherazade. Hope Marin can follow Mao's path in terms of diversity and variety. At this moment, I am not sure how she will do with a Tango, ballet, or Scheherazade program.
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Totally agree. I think the whole "everyone needs balanced programs" is such nonsense. The problem isn't the backloading it's the scoring of backloaded programs that stinks. They should just score the last couple of elements with a 10% bonus and let the skaters decide what they want the bonus on. Hopefully it would be on their best stuff and we'd see it applied to quality instead of a measure of time plus quantity :/ The system is being gamed and watching a backloaded program of jumps win mostly due to over rewarded backloading has really killed my interest in watching TBH. I don't care where skaters put their elements and it's about the last thing I want determine the winner. Just my opinion though
Figure skating used to be and now it just feels so.........
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Oh really?
https://youtu.be/0toN32uSjB0?t=50
Seriously, I like Alina's free, rewatched her Nats skate dozen times at least already, but please don't tell me it's some unique choreography. It's basically Julia and Zhenya recycling. Pretty, esthetically pleasing, but imitative.
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Agree. I really do not care for the pretty princess clones and the safe programs that the Japanese girls tend to do at all. I will make an exception for Marin at this stage because she is a better performer than most. But I don't know why a powerful, exciting skater like Kaori, for example, has to skate such a boring LP with snoozy music that nearly put me to sleep. What a waste. Give me all the tanos and miming in the world over that tedium.
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I don't think that people have anything against "unorthodox", they even pointed out that "fly in the ointment" by calling Japanese programs generic. I think the problem they have with Zagitova is her bent posture and awkward, jammed in transitions and unfinished moves everywhere. I found her SP to bug me more, in particular those grab-your-foot-and-raise-your-leg transitions that repeated at least 3 times. I would not call her choreography all that unique either. I enjoyed all three Japanese girls much more and it's not just because of extreme backloading by Zagitova or being pressed.
Btw. Sakamoto LP is like the most essentionally Japanese looking recent program one could find, for good & bad.
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Thanks for the article, gsk8! You may want to correct a typo: it's Yuna Shiraiwa (last "a" is missing).
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I don't think Alina's programs are specially unique in nor choreography, nor package. And I don't really understand trying to put down Japanese girls to praise Alina, you can do that without it. 
Some people will like Alina's programs more, some will Marin's but if you're objective you will find pluses and minuses in both of them. That's kinda it lol. I think Marin can be versitale skater. I don't mind her short programs being similar to each other (both were made by Marina Zueva btw) since they really suit her and her age, no point of doing smth forced/ orginal for sake of being versitale while being junior, I like her both FPs more too (my favorite one is still her Beetlejuice from last season) but she for sure performed her SPs better. I hope she will have two spectualar programs for her senior debut season :agree:
Some people will like Alina's programs more, some will Marin's but if you're objective you will find pluses and minuses in both of them. That's kinda it lol. I think Marin can be versitale skater. I don't mind her short programs being similar to each other (both were made by Marina Zueva btw) since they really suit her and her age, no point of doing smth forced/ orginal for sake of being versitale while being junior, I like her both FPs more too (my favorite one is still her Beetlejuice from last season) but she for sure performed her SPs better. I hope she will have two spectualar programs for her senior debut season :agree:
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Do you think that Marin didn't backload all her jumps (because she is also doing that partially) because she wanted to please you?
Noo, but because it's damn difficult both mentally and physically.
In my opinion, Alina's program is very cleverly built and the backload is in line with the music, so I'm not at all disturbed by that, on the contrary.
I am just not a fan, sorry.
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- Jan 29, 2017
Agree with every word. People also should stop put down Alina to praise Marin. She deserved her gold in this competition.And I don't really understand trying to put down Japanese girls to praise Alina, you can do that without it.
I guess top 5 places are always been compared to one another and sometimes there are fans that cross the line from healthy critics to rudeness... and the conversation becomes a snowball that can't be stopped...
Balanced is the standard. Equilibrium is the standard. Fat-bottom isn't the standard. Front load isn't the standard. Standard is standard because it's balanced. You want to achieve balance at everything. You can be bored to death on the same balanced diet, but doesn't mean fried and salty food is good for you. Same thing applied here.
Let's not make it like they are innovative and dance like. They come from the same school of mime and lifted legs. Nothing is innovative about those miming gestures. Nothing is innovative about those random pulling of limps. It's a factory of girls doing the same ridiculous mimes.
I agree that backload all of the jumps are very hard and if most girls can do it, they would do it. I also think people forget that they have to work with a choreographer to put together a program. What good choreographer would allow all jumps in the second half. Your name is on the choreography, you don't want a program where it is jump after jump and looks nothing like you envision. Imagine a real ballet of no ebbs and flows. Can you imagine one Russian choreographer would make a ballet where the first half is all standing around and second half all twirls and pirouettes. Doesn't matter how unorthodox it is, no real choreographer would put together something so stupid. It's a clear pointsgrabbing ploy by certain coach, not something so unorthodox and innovative and artful. You are confused.
Alina- what a star (nerves of steel and so consistent; Marin- just a delight and light as a feather (reminds me of a whimsical Michelle Kwan); Sakamoto- wonderful Tonya jumps (I'm in awe at all of their jumps, but hers are amazing); Eunsoo- smooth, charming and incredibly skilled and talented; Stasya- did well (IMHO) under what must've been huge pressure for her, and I generally (unlike the odd hater here) love her skating. I don't understand someone having a go at her performance; it wasn't completely flawless but there was much to admire.
Michaela-Luzie Hanzlikova (excuse my spelling) and the Mexican girl (IMO) also show promise and with more training and polish, could be contenders in the next 2 years or so.
Michaela-Luzie Hanzlikova (excuse my spelling) and the Mexican girl (IMO) also show promise and with more training and polish, could be contenders in the next 2 years or so.
What do you expect them to do? Mean-girling each other?
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- Jan 29, 2017
Relax please ))) I don't expect anything from them but just happy to see them both smile.
at the 2007 Junior Worlds US ladies swept the podium- Caroline Zhang won gold, Mirai silver, and Wagner bronze
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Actually...one can argue, moving most of elements including all the jumps in 2nd half for the sake of points scoring is actually the death of art, and there's nothing innovative or admirable about it, unless this is some sort of endurance acrobatic exercise.
I once made a satire post about the possibility of a program abusing the half way bonus, but soon put it out of my mind as I thought it would really hurt the PCS score. Oh Boy... was I wrong! :sarcasm:
I once made a satire post about the possibility of a program abusing the half way bonus, but soon put it out of my mind as I thought it would really hurt the PCS score. Oh Boy... was I wrong! :sarcasm:
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