2017 Worlds Preview: Pairs

FYI : there is a difference about appreciation for skaters on this forum VS the world....

People who are casual fans have no idea Aliona came back, that the Chinese pairs underwent a switcheroo, nor that Tarasova and Morozov are skating well this season.

However, they do remember about a certain vegan athlete and her gay partner with great lines... They remember their crazy throws and their back to back WC.

I wish that people on the forum stop saying things like

90% of their fans are Canadians

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(it's just not true)

or the general hatred towards the team is mostly about Meagan

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do you know what general hatred means??? that means that pretty much everyone hates the team... that's a very bold and borderline bashing statement.

I wish that such discourse was dropped on this forum. Yes... I am a fan of theirs but they are not my favourite team. I just admire how much they have pushed the sport as it was pretty much stagnant for 25 years. Why are we getting excited when men bring new quads but not when pairs try the same?

Finally, as some have mentioned, they are working towards an ultimate goal and this year was the year to try new things. We will see what they bring at worlds now that they have prepared for a result rather than for new elements. We will see what they will bring next year as well..

However, to dismiss such a team, who shows such resilience and commitment in bettering themselves, who is also 2 times world champion, is ridiculous. I think some people who say that they are gone and have been dropped are just wishful thinkers and biased. Do you really expect Meagan to not adapt if they are not successful? I mean, they have just revamped their programs because they were not happy after GPF and 4CC. This team is very eager to do well.

Finally and FWIW, I went to two live competitions this year. Meagan and Eric are by far the fastest skaters I have seen, with the best ice coverage, the biggest SBS jumps and the best unison on spins.

I will give you that they could improve their lifts positions but you know, Meagan is not the most flexible and she hits her levels... so kudos to her... and that when I saw them, they got 1 great throw in the short but 1 fall on the 4S and one step out on the 3lz in the FP....so yes... they are adjusting with throws.

Can we agree to stop the negative banter for a while? I know some will rejoice if they don't skate well. That's mean but some humans are mean... but could we at least collectively, show that this community is more positive than the comments we see on youtube sometimes?

Negative banter is directed at D/R since they're not the most artistic skaters out there and yet they keep winning -- apparently, being technically ambitious and attempting content no other skaters do is okay, as long as said technical proficiency doesn't result in you threatening/defeating people's favourites. THEN people start getting mad, and call you unartistic/overscored/etc.

Hmmm... I feel like this can be applied to skater(s) in other disciplines........

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Negative banter is directed at D/R since they're not the most artistic skaters out there and yet they keep winning -- apparently, being technically ambitious and attempting content no other skaters do is okay, as long as said technical proficiency doesn't result in you threatening/defeating people's favourites. THEN people start getting mad, and call you unartistic/overscored/etc.

Hmmm... I feel like this can be applied to skater(s) in other disciplines........

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sure... the single skaters raising BV may be called out for sacrificing artistry...

HOWEVER, they still get respected for raising the content....

D/R get attacked for focusing on their big elements and sacrificing PCS territory.. and THEN, people say that these big elements are ugly anyways....

I'd rather see Meagan have a low landing on a 4S than some girls two foot a 3S.

If people are going to criticize them for focusing on harder elements, then the could at least recognize that part of their skating.

What I have read here is just sad.

The good news is that more teams are raising the bar now.... We see more exotic jumps attempted... We see juniors doing the throw 3lz which Meagan was the first to land with Eric... so at least, they will have brought the sport out of the realm of the salchow and loop throws

Crossover said:

No, the like or dislike doesn't necessarily play in the prediction. Not every favorites are popular among figure skating fans as you look at the other prediction polls. D/R are simply loosing their grip this season beaten by Tarasova/Morozov and Yu/Zhang at GPF as well as Sui/Han at 4CC. T/M were long considered underdogs shadowed by their compatriots such as Stolbova/Klimov and Kavaguti/Smironov, Yu/Zhang were newly formed by their federation, and Sui/Han were just out of injury.

However, D/R, the two time WC were beaten by all of them shiftlessly. Their 3ATh attempts weren't successful and they didn't deliver their programs cleanly. The consistency rate of their 3Lz which is their money trick is dropping. They may pull off their finest performances of the season in Helsinki, but the other top contenders would do the same. I'm only fond of Eric who takes the whole charge of their PCS department in the team. The general hatred towards the team is mostly about Megan, not Eric who has exquisite qualities and grace, but they are bound to be one team though.

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I trust or would be interested if you are consistent and say the same about P and C in ice dance then where one skater is far superior than the other.

Skater Boy said:

I trust or would be interested if you are consistent and say the same about P and C in ice dance then where one skater is far superior than the other.

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you don't even need to go to Ice dance... Aliona is a star... Bruno is IMHO MEH. However, nobody is sending as much hate towards him. Why?

Skater Boy said:

I trust or would be interested if you are consistent and say the same about P and C in ice dance then where one skater is far superior than the other.

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Go find my past posts on P/C, especially when their GPF scores of this season came out.

I am neither interested in your game nor trust your judgement.

4everchan said:

sure... the single skaters raising BV may be called out for sacrificing artistry...

HOWEVER, they still get respected for raising the content....

D/R get attacked for focusing on their big elements and sacrificing PCS territory.. and THEN, people say that these big elements are ugly anyways....

I'd rather see Meagan have a low landing on a 4S than some girls two foot a 3S.

If people are going to criticize them for focusing on harder elements, then the could at least recognize that part of their skating.

What I have read here is just sad.

The good news is that more teams are raising the bar now.... We see more exotic jumps attempted... We see juniors doing the throw 3lz which Meagan was the first to land with Eric... so at least, they will have brought the sport out of the realm of the salchow and loop throws

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I think the "hate" for Duhamel and Radford is a little or a lot unfair. They are artistic in their own way And to be fair then there should be hate more so for Boyang and Chen. But with D and R you feel hate not just criticism. With Boyang and Nathan it is more criticism or things to work on - mind you it is on these posts - but in GoldenSkate I can feel the hate for D and R that is further than simply constructive criticism.

4everchan said:

you don't even need to go to Ice dance... Aliona is a star... Bruno is IMHO MEH. However, nobody is sending as much hate towards him. Why?

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This is not meant to be sexist, but I do think the female and male play different roles in a pair. In pairs the man should be the strong and powerful one, the female partner more focused on positions, lines, artistry, movement across ice, etc. Of course D/R can try to change that stereotype but IMO they haven't done it just yet... Of course synchronization, unity, unison, flow are important for both but in a sense Bruno's lack of skating skills may be excused (understandably so) more easily than Meagan's. I will not name names but many successful pairs have had male partners with skating skills that were lacking--the same cannot be said for the female partner.
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The critique against Duhamel/Radford is mainly a question of difficulty vs artistry, a question that has also come up in Men quite often. In Pairs' case, it is often exacerbated even further because artistry and unity are generally more important to pairs than men, which has always been about the jumps. Furthermore, another common grievance is that Duhamel/Radford have been receiving PCS scores in line with pairs who are leaps and bounds better in artistry/skating skills/transitions/choreography/etc....even in Men's you can at least say that Boyang Jin is receiving considerably lower PCS than Patrick Chan...We can agree that they do deserve recognition that they are attempting the harder elements...but it is fair game to critique their PCS as well as execution of certain elements.

^^ thanks but this is proving my point furthermore... some fans want to see pairs as they were 25 years ago... just like they look at women from 25 years ago....

Offer them something else, and you are confronting them with change... human beings with a very limited mind openness are very refractory to change.

I find Eric and Meagan very exciting to watch exactly because they are different. I will agree that they need to execute their programs perfectly well to win... and they have pretty much done so when they have won... so why complain???? If they are not clean, they won't win... Why is it necessary for some fans to continue the bitter bashing?

That's what I am after here.... they deserve some respect... if some fans don't like them, they could just show decency and stop the negative banter.


I am done with this I hope their skating speaks for itself again this year.

4everchan said:

^^ thanks but this is proving my point furthermore... some fans want to see pairs as they were 25 years ago... just like they look at women from 25 years ago....

Offer them something else, and you are confronting them with change... human beings with a very limited mind openness are very refractory to change.

I find Eric and Meagan very exciting to watch exactly because they are different. I will agree that they need to execute their programs perfectly well to win... and they have pretty much done so when they have won... so why complain???? If they are not clean, they won't win... Why is it necessary for some fans to continue the bitter bashing?

That's what I am after here.... they deserve some respect... if some fans don't like them, they could just show decency and stop the negative banter.


I am done with this I hope their skating speaks for itself again this year.

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I agree with you, most of that flack they receive is unwarranted. I think that people should finally wake up and realize that is is not 2002 anymore. Skaters don't have to fit your desired mould to be great, and for me they don't have to enjoy them either.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Negative banter is directed at D/R since they're not the most artistic skaters out there and yet they keep winning -- apparently, being technically ambitious and attempting content no other skaters do is okay, as long as said technical proficiency doesn't result in you threatening/defeating people's favourites. THEN people start getting mad, and call you unartistic/overscored/etc.

Hmmm... I feel like this can be applied to skater(s) in other disciplines........

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some time ago, I took a consequent approach towards figure skating and decided that I'll try to highlight and cherish only the best features/qualities of all skaters/teams, putting aside my personal preferences/sentiments where I can express myself more broadly. Meanwhile, I try my best to be a FS fan in general, seeing a great diversity of good things among all skaters and think that one team's quality in specific area only highlight prominence of other team in another one. I'm just too tired of purposely pointing out only flaws/imperfections/lacks of one particular team for sake of phrasing another, for me it's just way easier to see good things in all teams, regardless how silly that sounds.

I think that we're kind of 'blessed' by current Pairs state - so much diversity, different approach, traditions, styles, all spiced with so much courage and pushing towards technical content, not losing artsy feel in it. We're blessed to have so many fierce, passionate competitors, with power, determination, quality and ability to put on a great show. And about Meagan and Eric - the thing I cherish and admire mostly is their athleticism and competitive power to deliver, focus when it matters the most. Based on that, they were able to build themselves from scratch, raise to the success and create that unique aura/style of them.

Sugarpova said:

voted for TM
yeah I admit just to counter the hate they get for music selections that I personally love:taunt:

muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusic was my 1st looooooooooooooooove:dance2:

realitically Imo DR have the chance. Ppl seem to underestimate them & then they BAAAM get another gold

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Sugarfairy, my friend, where have You been?, long time, no see!

yeah, I think that Evgenia and Vladimir are boosted by recent achievements and have that confidence to pull this off this time too, no doubt they will go for it all (on which I'm counting on!)

and in all honesty, looking at their consistency, solid execution for the whole season so far, they could sure benefit from Wenjing/Han's or Aliona/Bruno's mishaps (as I think that this sbs 3S in FS for Chinese and throws for Germans would be a deciding factors...) and get that gold.

But I'd not underestimate competitive power of Meagan and Eric, determination and high wave of Vanessa/Morgan and quality of Yu/Zhang or Ksenia and Fedor

too much goodie, too little medals to award

NoNameFace said:

Sugarfairy, my friend, where have You been?, long time, no see!

yeah, I think that Evgenia and Vladimir are boosted by recent achievements and have that confidence to pull this off this time too, no doubt they will go for it all (on which I'm counting on!)

and in all honesty, looking at their consistency, solid execution for the whole season so far, they could sure benefit from Wenjing/Han's or Aliona/Bruno's mishaps (as I think that this sbs 3S in FS for Chinese and throws for Germans would be a deciding factors...) and get that gold.

But I'd not underestimate competitive power of Meagan and Eric, determination and high wave of Vanessa/Morgan and quality of Yu/Zhang or Ksenia and Fedor

too much goodie, too little medals to award

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S/H's 3S and S/M' 3ATh are the key elements in this competition.I am not sure if T/M made a good descision with going for the 4Tw. Usually they the get more points for the 3TW3.

Crossover said:

Go find my past posts on P/C, especially when their GPF scores of this season came out.

I am neither interested in your game nor trust your judgement.

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Huh? Sorry no game lol Crossover. We are all entitled to our opinions. I am just saying that to be consistent one would expect you would hopefully take the same approach to where a skater on another team is unequal - just to be fair or consistent. But then again that's why we have these forums - so we can be ' armchair' judges. We don't have to think logical. Mind you I am sure some would say that about the actual judges lol.

QuadThrow said:

S/H's 3S and S/M' 3ATh are the key elements in this competition.I am not sure if T/M made a good descision with going for the 4Tw. Usually they the get more points for the 3TW3.

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I think the quad twist is a good move for them. It's not suuuuper risky (not that it's easy either), and you can say you did a quad/above-average difficulty in your program which lends itself to greater appreciation for the overall performance. I know people say that tech should not equal PCS, but that is the reality, and IMO the top pairs teams should at least be attempting one risky element (whether a quad throw/twist, side by side jumps better than the age-old 2A/3T/3S, etc.).

Ares said:

I agree with you, most of that flack they receive is unwarranted. I think that people should finally wake up and realize that is is not 2002 anymore. Skaters don't have to fit your desired mould to be great, and for me they don't have to enjoy them either.

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I suppose life isn't fair. Some people, products or skaters are just more desireable or popular and sometimes it is not very logical or it is a purely personal or event aesthetic thing. Candelero was immensely well like and charming but watch his skating arguably very sloppy and not great lines. Arguably this is not about what you like but for example you may hate country music and themes but if it has transition, excellent skating skills, the program is interpreted well and sold to the audience then it should score well. Duhamel physically has some limitations - she is not borne tall and statuestque like Kostner or Anna. She is not a sex kitten or try to be sexy like Savchenko. She needs to maybe work on her projection of who she is and skate bigger like is often said of the shibsibs. Arguably she and Eric have limitation in respect to selling romantic pieces and really it shouldn't if they are actors but we are human so we think it is odd for a gay guy to act like he is in love with his female partners - though it is somewhat acceptable for a gay actor to play a straight role or vice versa. Interesting we accept another gay skater as being okay to do romantic routines with his partner only because he is not out so to speak. i just don't think this literal hate, not just criticism, of D and R is warranted or fair. That being said I don't feel this is their year with all their trouble with jumps and the judges in love with the Germans and Sui and Han. Savchenko looks like she will go into the olympics yet again as a major contendor - what a competitor.

4everchan said:

you don't even need to go to Ice dance... Aliona is a star... Bruno is IMHO MEH. However, nobody is sending as much hate towards him. Why?

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This is a good question. I want to mention this.

First I think Bruno has not been as successful as meagan yet. So noone really can complain about titles Bruno could have won over another great pair skater.

Meagan is a very powerful and delightful but not very reserved person. So oppinions can be very differen about her. Bruno is not reserved either but with Aljona on his side he will always be the weaker partner. It is just not possible to be at the same level.

Part of the Problem is that there was a gap in pair skating after the Olympics 2014. Meagan and eric used this break perfectly to win two deserved world titles. For an Eurpean pair skating fan it is really difficult to accept that they were the top pair in the world after stunning years with S/S and V/T, who were out of this world.

Time has changes now. I really do not believe that D/R will win for a third time. S/H' artistry is amazing and S/M's programs are breathtaking even if you do not like Bruno.

skaterboy... you are unpredictable... but i have to agree with some of your points here.

double standards : since the beginning, some of the flack D/R has gotten has to do with Meagan not being feminine enough and with Eric being gay. COME ON. As if he is the only gay in the village.... Other teams with "gay" partners are not receiving the same disrespect... (now it's relative who is out or not, as of course, this is 2017 and people don't "always" come out à la Rippon but just simply are open on their social media)

Regarding the judges : yes... they seem to love Aliona and Bruno.... Another double standard from the fans here who blame Meagan for her lack of skills as Bruno is definitely lacking a ton, and when skating with some as extroverted and shiny as Aliona, it's worse... At least, Eric's style with its subtleties completes Meagan rather than making her look worse (that's my opinion).

So yes.... aesthetically speaking, we are used to a team looking more like T/M... but when people are complaining about D/R's music and programs, are they really liking T/M's long? (sorry Sugar) Another double standard here.

And Sui/Han : they certainly appeal to the most. I like them a lot as well (like I do like the other teams, my post is simply offering a look at double standards). Their style is the epitome of great Chinese pairs skating.... however, they do have similar flaws as the other Chinese pairs... yet, people forgive them Same with Yu/Zhang. I understand that sentimental love both them are receiving, and they deserve it for what they have been through.... however, is that part of judging? Do you really believe that any team of the elite level has had a smooth ride to the top? Meagan and Eric have been through a lot... including being thrown under the bus by many people.... shouldn't that earn them a bit of sympathy??? Nah..... another double standard.

Every team once in a while tries new elements.... with or without success... the flack D/R have received for trying a throw that would actually make them almost unreachable in the SP ... while other teams land throws just as badly, they have received so much flack for having the courage to try something new for them... these two didn't start out as kids together... they were pretty "advanced" in age when they teamed up... the axel throw is something they learned from scratch starting with the single... Did I hear any praise about that???? Sure, it wasn't successful... but still.... when another team tries a quad (J/C, for instance) we hear the OH and the AH but D/R try something new, and fans of the other teams get scared and put them now even more.... Double standard.

QuadThrow said:

This is a good question. I want to mention this.

First I think Bruno has not been as successful as meagan yet. So noone really can complain about titles Bruno could have won over another great pair skater.

Meagan is a very powerful and delightful but not very reserved person. So oppinions can be very differen about her. Bruno is not reserved either but with Aljona on his side he will always be the weaker partner. It is just not possible to be at the same level.

Part of the Problem is that there was a gap in pair skating after the Olympics 2014. Meagan and eric used this break perfectly to win two deserved world titles. For an Eurpean pair skating fan it is really difficult to accept that they were the top pair in the world after stunning years with S/S and V/T, who were out of this world.

Time has changes now. I really do not believe that D/R will win for a third time. S/H' artistry is amazing and S/M's programs are breathtaking even if you do not like Bruno.

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You know,

I ADORED S/S.... and as much as I love Aliona... if S/M win, it will not sit very well with me... that would add to my list of double standards

V/T had for a long time, the best elements... but if that's your cup of tea, go for it.... if that's what Europeans want to see.... great... but and here will only speak for myself, I believe that North American have often pushed pair skating to get into another direction... away from the love stories... away from the predictable balletic aesthetics....

If you look at other successful teams during the great era of soviet pairs, you will find very contrasting teams to that style.... Underhill/Martini, Brasseur/Eisler to name only two, brought something very different to pairs. B/E were pushing the technical envelope quite far. It's another kind of style... and I see D/R following that route. I/M are clearly following a more European style and yet, without any great results until their 3rd place at 4cc, people, including myself, are raving about them....

Why can't we appreciate something different? I mean, chocolate cake is good... but once in a while, you may want some other kind of sweet.

And finally, do not forget that both years, D/R have beaten great teams....
WC1 : they simply outskated everyone including a trio of strong home favorite Chinese teams but also Kavaguti/Smirnof to name just one more team. Stilbova/Klimov opted not to compete for nebulous reasons .... you can't fault D/R for winning if others don't feel they are ready.

WC2 : I hope I don't need to list all the great teams that were there... many champions including skaters from each step of the Sochi Podium competed. D/R rose to the occasion putting on a great show in both programs to edge S/H, S/M and beat skaters from Russia who clearly underperformed.

Calling this a void, and not giving proper value to a team winning back to back championships because "others didn't show or others didn't skate well" is ridiculous... In the end, the best team of the events won. Fair and square.

This is exactly the kind of bias that is not helping the cause.

You are correct: time has changed. S/H skate with more joy and happiness and it's helping them. S/M : you can say they have great programs, I will say they have a great FP but they should also be held accountable for their mistakes because they have issues landing SBS and throws. D/R have had a really difficult season. But they did last year again. The biggest changes for me are T/M becoming the clear Russian #1. They are spectacular when on, and I say this with all respect and praise, despite not liking their style and packaging at all.... which is to me, at best cookie cutter. Y/Z have a special magnetic presence. I appreciate their skating a lot this year. However, they will need to upgrade their tech and get a hold of their spins.

It will be an exciting competition for sure.

4everchan said:

Sure, it wasn't successful... but still.... when another team tries a quad (J/C, for instance) we hear the OH and the AH but D/R try something new, and fans of the other teams get scared and put them now even more.... Double standard.

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Wait until James/Cipres start winning events... I anticipate the haters will (similar to Meagan) go after her for having a strong, muscular, athletic body - and not the 'typical' pairs girl physique.

Like D/R's World bronzes, it's all good to have a technically superior team on the podium, as long as it's not the top spot... then came D/R's World golds and people's faves start losing, hence the vitriol. Or, even more than their faves losing, haters complain when a team that doesn't fit THEIR idea of what a winning pairs team should be starts winning or even dominating the discipline as D/R did 2014-2016.