2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

lavoix

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Not sure if this has been posted somewhere already, but per Jackie Wong, Elena R. will be getting choreo from Shae-Lynn. Which I think is fantastic. Elena is a diva, and Shae-Lynn can bring that out, and, hopefully, refine it a bit, too.

She really needs to deliver jump wise, choreography wise, etc to make a strong case for the Olympics. I hope it's a step in the right direction.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
Not sure if this has been posted somewhere already, but per Jackie Wong, Elena R. will be getting choreo from Shae-Lynn. Which I think is fantastic. Elena is a diva, and Shae-Lynn can bring that out, and, hopefully, refine it a bit, too.

This is good news. I hope she does both programs this year. Shae did Elena's Porgy & Bess SP this season and it was one of my favorites. The FS was kinda crappy and ineffectual. Hopefully she'll get two strong programs this year. She has a long way to go to make it to one of those spots but she's definitely in the conversation.

As for Liza T, I just don't know if a trip to the Olys is in the cards for her. If she could get back to her 2015 form she'd have a shot but it wouldn't be a guarantee. She's lost a lot of ground with the judges and her skating is a bit stale compared to the rest of the Russian field. She'd have to have the 3A back (probably in both programs) and she'd need to be extremely consistent to break into that top 3 in Russia.

Things could always change but based off of what I've seen this season I think the Olympic team will be Med and Zagitova and the third spot will be open for the rest to battle it out for. Russian nationals is going to be brutal next season.
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
She has talked about it in interviews. There's one in particular that discusses it quite a lot - but I don't think I've the time to find that particular one at the moment. Basically, the season after it took her some time to come back into shape - and she expected or demanded of herself that she should be in the same form she was before, and didn't understand why she wasn't. She kept piling on the pressure on herself - the more pressure she piled on, the worse things got. (I never want to see her look like she did at Russian Nationals that year - that wasn't nerves; that was terror plain & simple.) So, this season she has been trying not to do that, but let things work out in their own time, and just try to go out there and do her best.

(Note: She has been seeing a sports psychologist. And in an interview she actually said that she was interested in pursuing the subject after she retires from competition.)

I hope I have done some justice to what Liza said, and haven't misprepresented it in any way. But I did try to convey the gist of what she said. But still I'd like to put in a disclaimer that these are not direct quotes, and only based on my recollections of what I read. Apologies for any mistakes.

ETA - An Instagram post from some weeks ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQn_qxWAhTx/?taken-by=liza_tuktik

Via Google translate:
That's the end of the main part of the season. I admit, it was not an easy one, but it was possible to finish it on a pleasant note.! There is a motivation and desire to work on, but now the main thing is to heal the injuries and again to fight, Enjoying the process. 🤗 thank you to everyone who, despite the setbacks, believes and supports me, without your warm messages and the feeling of support in the arena, I probably would have died out long ago. Always yours, tuktik💞


I really don't think "lack of motivation" has been her issue - which would suggest she didn't care enough; rather I think she cared too much.


Wasn't she so good in the 2014/15 season because she was taking that now-banned substance? So now that she isn't on it anymore, well, she isn't doing as well? Idk. Her spins and programs are in desperate need of an upgrade so it's hard to root for her. Why does her team let her do that ugly sit spin position??!??😩😫
If she gets the 3A all she needs is to be consistent, right? Will that be enough??
 

moriel

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Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Wasn't she so good in the 2014/15 season because she was taking that now-banned substance? So now that she isn't on it anymore, well, she isn't doing as well? Idk. Her spins and programs are in desperate need of an upgrade so it's hard to root for her. Why does her team let her do that ugly sit spin position??!??😩😫
If she gets the 3A all she needs is to be consistent, right? Will that be enough??

There is no conclusive proof meldonium is a major performance enhancer.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
There is no conclusive proof meldonium is a major performance enhancer.

That is the only fact that has remained true since this mess started. That and it's a guaranteed thread derailer :scard7:
 
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silverfoxes

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Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Wasn't she so good in the 2014/15 season because she was taking that now-banned substance? So now that she isn't on it anymore, well, she isn't doing as well?

Only if you believe everything that comes out of Dave Lease's mouth and think he has some special insight into her medical history that nobody else does. Liza never said she only took meldonium during that season. She never specified anything about the frequency or duration of her usage, only that she had taken it. So she could have been on it before then without doing particularly well. Alena Leonova said she took it too, so...
 

hippomoomin

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Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Since the above posts about Russian ladies taking a now banned substance are not removed, I guess they are not considered "rumors" by the forum organizers.
But where is the official link supporting this? I would like to have a look. Last time a poster posted discussion on another figure skating forum was warmed and posts removed. So I believe that Russian ladies taking meldonium is not just someone said this and I am just quoting it.
 

tars

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Liza said she took it but she stopped taking it when people told her it was banned (or going to be banned). No clue when she started or for how long.
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1037939810.html
I remember she said it in radio interview and it was the most ridiculous example of Russian honesty ever. :biggrin:

It was in the end of the program - radio host just briefly mentioned Bobrova problems with meldonium, on which reigning world champion felt obligued to jump in and tell the whole world she took it as well, no biggie. :laugh:
 
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moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Since the above posts about Russian ladies taking a now banned substance are not removed, I guess they are not considered "rumors" by the forum organizers.
But where is the official link supporting this? I would like to have a look. Last time a poster posted discussion on another figure skating forum was warmed and posts removed. So I believe that Russian ladies taking meldonium is not just someone said this and I am just quoting it.

There are 2 things
Liza indeed took meldonium. Its not a rumor, she said it herself in an interview. While people didnt provide the link here, its irrelevant because many people read it.

Now, for meldonium being a performance enhancer, thats indeed a rumor
 

Sweet Dream

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Wasn't she so good in the 2014/15 season because she was taking that now-banned substance? So now that she isn't on it anymore, well, she isn't doing as well? Idk.

Are you serious in saying these? You'd better not tell me that she only took that "banned substance" during the 2014/15 season, and It worked only after the Sochi Olympics.
 

hippomoomin

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Joined
Oct 30, 2012
OK, many athletes took meldonium.

Back to Liza's future: Is Mishin really a great coach of "legendary" status? I obviously don't know him well enough except that he was the coach of Plushenko and earlier Yagudin. I didn't even know he wasn't a single skater himself. What I do know is that he has produced a limited number of top skaters in recent years, to say the least, and Liza is the most successful one. I wonder if Liza's success is limited to his coaching to some degree, especially packaging. Zijun Li has not made significant change yet though he is a much better choice than her previous ones.
 

Tolstoj

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
OK, many athletes took meldonium.

Back to Liza's future: Is Mishin really a great coach of "legendary" status? I obviously don't know him well enough except that he was the coach of Plushenko and earlier Yagudin. I didn't even know he wasn't a single skater himself. What I do know is that he has produced a limited number of top skaters in recent years, to say the least, and Liza is the most successful one. I wonder if Liza's success is limited to his coaching to some degree, especially packaging. Zijun Li has not made significant change yet though he is a much better choice than her previous ones.

He made Carolina competitive again, Zijun Li looked back on form at the WTT, he has also Liza Nugumanova who was fine at JGP this season (not as strong as i expected though).

With Petrov they have opted for a step-by-step approach and he is now a really good skater but he needs more quads.

Anyway Alisa Lozko is still on his group? Few months ago there were rumors about her switching to Sambo70.

and Liza is the most successful one. I wonder if Liza's success is limited to his coaching to some degree, especially packaging.

Liza has an interesting career: back in 2010-2012 she was really "the next Yuna", but then after the puberty her body changed and now she is a completely different type of skater. She changed her combos every season, sometimes even two-three times during the same year, while other skaters keeps the same layout with the jumps always in the same position for years.
 

silverfoxes

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Joined
Feb 16, 2014
OK, many athletes took meldonium.

Back to Liza's future: Is Mishin really a great coach of "legendary" status? I obviously don't know him well enough except that he was the coach of Plushenko and earlier Yagudin. I didn't even know he wasn't a single skater himself. What I do know is that he has produced a limited number of top skaters in recent years, to say the least, and Liza is the most successful one. I wonder if Liza's success is limited to his coaching to some degree, especially packaging. Zijun Li has not made significant change yet though he is a much better choice than her previous ones.

He also coached Urmanov, who won gold @ the '94 Olympics. And Artur Gachinski who won bronze at Worlds in 2011. If multiple Oly & Worlds medals don't qualify him as a legendary coach, what would? But I would say that he has become rather too stuck in his ways and never really adapted to the COP era. I don't think he cares enough about packaging and artistry, and he has no problem stripping away all of a choreographer's touches until there is almost nothing left. I really do think Liza is limited by his approach. Maybe she would never have become the most artistic skater, but the right coach would help her develop the potential she had instead of staying in her comfort zone forever. I just don't see her leaving him.
 
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hanca

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
OK, many athletes took meldonium.

Back to Liza's future: Is Mishin really a great coach of "legendary" status? I obviously don't know him well enough except that he was the coach of Plushenko and earlier Yagudin. I didn't even know he wasn't a single skater himself. What I do know is that he has produced a limited number of top skaters in recent years, to say the least, and Liza is the most successful one. I wonder if Liza's success is limited to his coaching to some degree, especially packaging. Zijun Li has not made significant change yet though he is a much better choice than her previous ones.

That's as silly as asking whether Frank Carroll is a legendary coach. He is not that great with Denis Ten, he didn't do much for Kostner when she skated with him, and the situation with Gracie Gold... if we look at how you are measuring Mishin, we can say abour Carroll exactly the same - he produced a limited number of top skaters in recent years. To be fair, there is only a handful of coaches who produced more than just a limited number of top skaters in the recent years. Tutberidze, Orser, some dance coaches and Nina Mozer from pairs.
 
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mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
OK, many athletes took meldonium.

Back to Liza's future: Is Mishin really a great coach of "legendary" status? I obviously don't know him well enough except that he was the coach of Plushenko and earlier Yagudin. I didn't even know he wasn't a single skater himself. What I do know is that he has produced a limited number of top skaters in recent years, to say the least, and Liza is the most successful one. I wonder if Liza's success is limited to his coaching to some degree, especially packaging. Zijun Li has not made significant change yet though he is a much better choice than her previous ones.

Shh, Don't tell anyone.....But, I hear that Mishin Coached a living legend....
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/GTY_plushenko_tk_140210_16x9_608.jpg

Of Course he's a legendary coach. He coached a living legend named Plushenko and to me, that makes him legendary.

Look at this sweet picture...http://img.informador.com.mx/biblioteca/imagen/370x277/1012/1011133.jpg
 
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plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Now, for meldonium being a performance enhancer, thats indeed a rumor

This is the essence! Many athletes took the meldonium because the drugstore manufactured it for athletes as a heart protective drug. The other things are rumours. Sharapova didn't want to be more artistic.. :biggrin:
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Adelina sotnikova is injured again. Injured again?!?! Why does this keep happening when she is about to come back? Apparently, she'll make a decision after may 20th, I believe.
I was looking forward to seeing her compete again. She has really developed as a skater.
 
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