2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

klutzy · Feb 23, 2018

NAOTMAA said:
I expected all the ladies who finished ahead to finish ahead (only surprise was Dabin Chio instead of Gabriel Daleman) so I guess its no surprise. Yeah a potential meltdown by Carolina, or another, which was not unrealistic at all, could have inched the US ladies a step higher but still 9th as the highest finisher is no surprise :confused2:

But I think Bradie having to skate the SP, first, in the first group, just shows how wrong the USFSA does things. Always clinging to the old and tried guard as long as possible, wringing them until their desert dry, while the younger generation suffers from lack of attention and nurturing until they eventually become nothing. Younger girls need more encouragement and pushing to improve. They need to know exactly where they stand and how they can improve. Sending Star Andrews to 4CC was a move in the right direction.

Agreed. Bradie's style is a bit unpolished, but she has the difficulty and the clean technique, but it sounds like she was pretty much on her own at the beginning of the season. I thought she did pretty well for someone in her position--she was clean at the team event and she recovered from her mishaps during the individual. That's just not that bad for someone whose biggest international competition was Skate America.

And she did beat the other American women. (Oh Mirai--I wish I was surprised, but props for the team 3-A.)

WineHerUp · Feb 23, 2018

I feel so bad for Bradie. It seemed like there was just a ton of unrealistic expectations placed on her because she happened to be the most consistent skater from the US, which tbh isn't saying much when your team mates are notoriously inconsistent. Bradie was never going to be competitive internationally, at least not this season, and the media should've been more realistic with their expectations.

NAOTMAA · Feb 23, 2018

WineHerUp said:
I feel so bad for Bradie. It seemed like there was just a ton of unrealistic expectations placed on her because she happened to be the most consistent skater from the US, which tbh isn't saying much when your team mates are notoriously inconsistent. Bradie was never going to be competitive internationally, at least not this season, and the media should've been more realistic with their expectations.

American media has always had huge expectations but they always had a foot grounded in reality. I don't know what happened but at these Olympics they threw all caution and common sense out the window and seem to be in some fantasy world. It's not just skating events but all of them :hslap:

schizoanalyst · Feb 23, 2018

NAOTMAA said:
American media has always had huge expectations but they always had a foot grounded in reality. I don't know what happened but at these Olympics they threw all caution and common sense out the window and seem to be in some fantasy world. It's not just skating events but all of them :hslap:

What happened was NBC ratings for the Olympics (and figure skating in general) are low and they certainly knew that would happen from market research. They probably thought a desperate hype campaign might help. Hence, Bradie gets pushed as a possible Bronze, when that would've required at least 6 or more other competitors to have rather poor outings. Nathan get's hyped as the unbeatable and overwhelming quad king gold favorite, when he had a good shot but was realistically one of about 5 or 6 people who could've taken it depending on the night and wasn't really the favorite.

Kittosuni · Feb 23, 2018

Going forward I want to see the US ladies taking more risks and push boundaries.

Russia and Japan are far ahead because they are testing limits and not being complacent.

I wish someone dares to train with a Japanese or Russian coach.

klutzy · Feb 23, 2018

schizoanalyst said:
What happened was NBC ratings for the Olympics (and figure skating in general) are low and they certainly knew that would happen from market research. They probably thought a desperate hype campaign might help. Hence, Bradie gets pushed as a possible Bronze, when that would've required at least 6 or more other competitors to have rather poor outings. Nathan get's hyped as the unbeatable and overwhelming quad king gold favorite, when he had a good shot but was realistically one of about 5 or 6 people who could've taken it depending on the night and wasn't really the favorite.

Funny, for all the talk about the ladies, Nathan is the one skater who truly underperformed. A healthy Hanyu was going to have the edge on the FS, but Nathan's implosion on the short was one of the worst I've seen. The Ladies did okay--if you know their track record. I also think Bradie was really unlucky with that starting position. I honestly think she would have been a couple of spots higher after the short.

R.D. · Feb 23, 2018

USFS - good luck finding all the pieces to pick up here. You’re gonna need it

See you later.

daphna · Feb 23, 2018

Bradie is awesome and did as well as she possibly could - this was her first major event. she's the ray of light in US skating and could become a superstar next quad. i hope they take good care of her, pace her well, and developing her artistry. she's very much the Gracie Gold kind of skater, I hope she does better than Gracie in fulfiling her potential. she's very nearly world medal material already.

Globetrotter · Feb 23, 2018

NAOTMAA said:
American media has always had huge expectations but they always had a foot grounded in reality. I don't know what happened but at these Olympics they threw all caution and common sense out the window and seem to be in some fantasy world. It's not just skating events but all of them :hslap:

So clearly, a sort of National programme to groom skaters starting from juniors is the way, instead of hoping the girls come from rich background and can self fund. Russia and Japan certainly had more national support and both their girls are far more competitive, with Russians having stronger competitive nerves and Japanese girls, better basic SS. And better results. The way it is going, looks like the US will nor retain its 3 positions next unless Mirai or a Karen GOEs lights out.

Proxy · Feb 23, 2018

Karen Chen -- I like her so I will take it easy. She's a lovely skater nice extension and stretch and spins. Jumps were not there. I hope she can go back to the drawing board and find more consistency.

Bradie Tennell -- Johnny Weir called her 'provincial' during the telecast. I don't know if that was mean or taking it easy on her, take your pick. But she's 20 years old and covered in junior mesh and skating to Cinderella? Awful. Couldn't watch.

Mirai Nagasu -- She delivered in the team event and will always have her bronze medal. She showed all kinds of guts in the short program. Her career is an inspiration. But have to be honest, that was terrible in the FS like maybe she mailed it in. Still, I can say I'm a fan of Mirai's and I wish her lots of success.

9-10-11...U.S. is going way the of the U.K. after the 50s and 60s. Might never be a factor in ladies again.

ice coverage · Feb 23, 2018

Re Mirai's individual FS:

Hitting a rut in the ice prevented her from getting the necessary lift for the triple axel.

She said so on the Today show this morning.

ETA:

And she said the same via Instagram. Excerpt:

"... I wanted to nail another triple axel on Olympic ice but unfortunately I didn’t even get a chance to when I hit a rut in the ice. Sometimes you just have to take it all in with a smile on your face. ..."

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfiPdK2nget/?taken-by=mirainagasu (Feb 23)

Her full-length Instagram message is lovely and worth reading in entirety.
And it accompanies a wonderful photo :luv17: of Mirai with her grandmother -- who surprised Mirai by coming from Japan to OWG -- and mother.

Mirai's Instagram story has video of her grandmother trying on Mirai's team bronze medal.

My thanks to all the U.S. ladies for doing their best (on the day, under pressure).
I'm happy that Mirai and Bradie have team bronze medals to bring home.

But first ... I hope they all have a blast at the Closing Ceremony. :yay:

Kittosuni said:
Going forward I want to see the US ladies taking more risks and push boundaries. ...

Like Mirai's triple axel?

I do see that you used the word "more," and I take your point.

Bluediamonds09 · Feb 23, 2018

The problem for the US ladies was never really “low technical content” or “not taking risks”. IT WAS INCONSISTENCY!!!!! Nothing more. They aren’t skating like the rent is due tomorrow. They aren’t skating fearless. Several US ladies could be near the top of the world if they’d deliver time and time again.

chuckm · Feb 23, 2018

Did Mirai also "hit a rut in the ice" when she singled the lutz?

I hope Mirai is motivated to skate her best in Milan. Her success rate with the 3a was .33 in Korea.

Cindy1983 · Feb 23, 2018

Proxy said:
Karen Chen -- I like her so I will take it easy. She's a lovely skater nice extension and stretch and spins. Jumps were not there. I hope she can go back to the drawing board and find more consistency.

Bradie Tennell -- Johnny Weir called her 'provincial' during the telecast. I don't know if that was mean or taking it easy on her, take your pick. But she's 20 years old and covered in junior mesh and skating to Cinderella? Awful. Couldn't watch.

Mirai Nagasu -- She delivered in the team event and will always have her bronze medal. She showed all kinds of guts in the short program. Her career is an inspiration. But have to be honest, that was terrible in the FS like maybe she mailed it in. Still, I can say I'm a fan of Mirai's and I wish her lots of success.

9-10-11...U.S. is going way the of the U.K. after the 50s and 60s. Might never be a factor in ladies again.

I think your last statement is a bit harsh. I think it's going to be a change over in, the talent pool for sure. If poorly is this and a change over happens, that's fine -- don't write it off yet. Bradie may be the beginning of the change over, a transitional figure if you will.

I also think that the media an negative comments on forums like this about them had to factor in. That's hard to take. For all her faults, Ashley had a thick skin and could sling it back when necessary. It didn't endear her to some, but it was a good trait when dealing with the media. How to deal with (negative) media should be part of the training too because the media is unforgiving, esp. in the US. Let's face it, the US media is BRUTAL -- and seems to only get worse every day. It was why I went out of my way NOT to make negative comments about thier talent. I did make 1 neg comment about Papadakis needing a nose job, but I NEVER said she wasn't talented.

I'm going to approach this next point via women's hockey. During the short, Marai took a HARD fall on a triple axel. They went through the jump and when landed cleanly, The force is 3 or 4 times thier body weight on a 1/8 inch blade. That's hard for a body to take. Women's hockey doesn't allow checking because the female body can't withstand the force of being body slammed into the boards. Men's bodies have more muscle mass while women's have more fat -- mainly b/c women carry babies. (I know I'm committing -- gasp! -- thought crime by saying this.) My point is that with that fall, I wouldn't be surprised if she was injured and didn't know it. (She's older and can't bounce back as quickly.) Adrenaline can cover injuries. This is why I'm skeptical of the reports the feats of the young Russian ladies, and if they are true, wondering what they are doing to thier bodies.

chuckm · Feb 23, 2018

There is no doubt that Bradie needs a style makeover. Her hairdo makes her look 10 years older than she is, and her costumes are too fussy. But her skating technique is very good---her jumps are big, she doesn't flutz or lip, and she's a great spinner. With better choreography, dance training and more international exposure, she could be placing higher.

At least it's unlikely that Bradie will skate first at the Worlds SP. With points for placing 9th at the Olympics, she has risen from #43 to #29 on the World Ranking list, and there are more than 30 ladies at Worlds (there were 37 last year).

moonvine · Feb 23, 2018

WineHerUp said:
I feel so bad for Bradie. It seemed like there was just a ton of unrealistic expectations placed on her because she happened to be the most consistent skater from the US, which tbh isn't saying much when your team mates are notoriously inconsistent. Bradie was never going to be competitive internationally, at least not this season, and the media should've been more realistic with their expectations.

Hopefully next season.

moonvine · Feb 23, 2018

daphna said:
Bradie is awesome and did as well as she possibly could - this was her first major event. she's the ray of light in US skating and could become a superstar next quad. i hope they take good care of her, pace her well, and developing her artistry. she's very much the Gracie Gold kind of skater, I hope she does better than Gracie in fulfiling her potential. she's very nearly world medal material already.

She doesn't hold a candle to Gracie in my opinion.

blthug · Feb 23, 2018

The state of figure skating in the US is continuing it’s downhill decline.... the seats will remain empty in the arenas. Thoughts and prayers USFSA.

mrrice · Feb 23, 2018

moonvine said:
She doesn't hold a candle to Gracie in my opinion.

IMO, she DOES hold a candle to Gracie. A very similar candle indeed. She needs a better choreographer just like Gracie did. Look, this may sound strange but, I think she might like having a Russian Coach. I know I did and my time in Russia was amazing. I certainly wasn't spoiled and I didn't have "Extra's." What I did have, were like minded dancers who took dancing as if their life depended on it. It wasn't for everyone but, it was definitely for me. Johnny definitely has a fondness for Russia and so do I.

skylark · Feb 23, 2018

I really missed Ashley's skating. :luv17: I missed her authenticity, her incredible emotional depth and artistry, her allure, her spirit, her womanliness, and her presence in the competition. Her programs and technique were on the way up, at Nationals, and she has a marvelous record of keeping US ladies in the conversation.

Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
The commentators on nbcolympics---including Charlie White and Kristy Yamaguchi---were really hard on Bradie Tennell for her mistakes in the FS, but they sympathized with Mirai for her far more glaring ones.

withwings said:
Mirai ALWAYS has been treated in that way. ALWAYS. And always will be.

Just use your imagination for a moment. Imagine that Ashley had skated here, had scored zero points on her first big FS element, then singled a lutz in the second half. Then imagine that she'd blamed the failure on a rut on the ice.

Think about it. This board would be blowing up with hateful, ugly remarks about her. Mirai, OTOH, gets praise.

2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

klutzy

WineHerUp

NAOTMAA

schizoanalyst

Kittosuni

klutzy

R.D.

daphna

Globetrotter

Proxy

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

Bluediamonds09

chuckm

Cindy1983

chuckm

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

blthug

mrrice

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

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