2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

Mrs. P

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This is the latest in a series of threads looking at the U.S. Men. This thread is for the 2017-2018 season, which official begins on July 1, 2017 and goes through June 30, 2018.

See past threads here.
2016-2017
2015-2016
2014-2015
2013-2014 (partial; second-half of the season)

***

Wow, we're to the Olympic season already. It seemed like just yesterday we were on the 2013-2014 thread, i.e. Sochi! Now we're on to journey Pyeongchang. The question is, which of the U.S. men will end up there come February?

As I did to open the previous season's thread, I will look at the current top contenders, dark horses and other men.

Top Contenders
Nathan Chen -Reigning U.S. Champion, Reigning 4CC Champion. Nathan's had quite a season. He's beat nearly every men, either at Nationals or internationally at some point in 2016-2017. Things fell a part a little at Worlds and he did not medal, but there's no doubt he's seen as a Olympic medal contender and is secured U.S. No. 1. The injuries that plagued him in season's past seems to be behind him, though efforts will likely be made to make sure they do not make a badly-timed return.
Jason Brown-Internationally, and score-wise, Jason did enough to prove that USFS decision to send him to Worlds over silver medalist Vincent Zhou was not a crazy one. I do feel that in spite of his struggles this season, this season clearly was a breakthrough in some ways, at least as far as international scores. He is the only U.S. man who has scored 90+ PCS in the free skate (at Skate America and at WTT) and other than at 4CC, he has garnered the top PCS scores among the U.S. Men. Of course he needs the quad. He knows it, everyone knows it. He has gone as far as he possibly can (175+ scores; 90 PCS; U.S. champ, top 10 finishes at Worlds) without a quad. His progress on it will tell the store of where he'll end up this season.
Vincent Zhou- Vincent had a strong second half that included a world junior title where he landed 3 quads. The PCS is obviously going to be a work in progress, but he enters the season with some strong momentum. Will he add the quad flip that he's been practicing?
Adam Rippon -Adam had a strong first half to the season that included making the GPF for the first time in his career. A freak training accident ended his season. However, he's on the road to recovery. Adam, to his credit, has continued to find ways to stay relevant despite his "old age." He and Jason are in a similar boat as far as the quad -- and both factions for each men have already started campaigning which "artist" should/would/could end up on the Olympic team. Jason has beaten Adam in every head-to-head match-up since 2014 U.S. Nationals, but of course patterns can always be broken.
Max Aaron - An unfortunate Nationals placement, but for now I'm listing him as a top contender because his scores internationally are still solid. His new Matador SP, debuted at Nationals, has potential and could dazzle if performed well.

Dark horse
Grant Hochstein -Despite placing 4th again at U.S. Nationals, his performances this season were not as strong as they were last season. Grant admitted that he had a late start this past season, which cause his competition rhythm to get off-sync. Grant's landed a few quads this year.
Ross Miner - Ross managed another top 3 finished after the SP at nationals only to again crumble in the free. Ross said this season is his last. He has a way of surprising folks, will he have one last surprise for us in 2017-2018?
Alexander Johnson -Alex had another top 6 finish at U.S. Nationals. His skating and programs are an audience delight, but like some of the U.S. men his technical content will be the determining factor whether he can move beyond top 6.
Tim Dolensky -- Timothy's season could have gone a bit better, but I still think there is some room for growth and movement. He definitely has a distinct style that does make him stand out even if the technical content isn't always there.
Joshua Farris -- I'm going to put him in dark horse status cause he's shown in shows and other videos that the jumps are there. He's a 4CC medalist and a three-time U.S. medalist, so that puts him on this list too. He could move into top contender status pretty quickly if he dazzles on the Challenge Series/GP circuit.

Other U.S. Men to watch for
Jeremy Abbott -He has not confirmed if he is returning to competition, but reports are that he is skating well and his program from Japan Open last year, where he landed several lovely 3As, was impressive.
Sean Rabbit- Sean Rabbit continues to show progress in his skating even as he enters his mid-20s. I'm not sure if there is much room for him to move up, but we'll see!
Andrew Torgashev -Poor guy had the worst ending to his season when he failed to make the FS at Junior Worlds. I expect he will bounce back. I think a top 10 finish (or maybe even a higher) and perhaps some solid finishes at junior competitions internationally is totally possible.
Jordan Moeller- Jordan had a respectable return to U.S. Nationals with a top 10 finish after being out for injury in 2016.
Alexei Krasnozhon Reigning U.S. Nationals champion in the junior level. Alex, as he likes to be called, had a few breakthroughs, including making the JGPF for the first time. It sounds like he will remain junior on the international level at least, but we may see him as a senior in San Jose. He's been working on his 4Lo, which was ratified, but the jump isn't quite consistent yet. I'm looking forward to seeing his progress on the jump.

Some statistics:
U.S. Champions in this field (5): Chen, Rippon, Brown, Abbott, Aaron
U.S. Medalists in this field (9): The above five, plus Zhou, Hochstein, Miner and Farris

It's going to be a bloodbath!
 
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ice coverage

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... U.S. Medalists in this field (8): The above five, plus Hochstein, Miner and Farris

It's going to be a bloodbath!

Vincent also is a U.S. medalist :).

Thx for the thread, Mrs. P :bow:.

Appreciate that you included the links to past editions of the thread :thank:.


ETA:
... . Nathan's had quite a season. He's beat every man internationally at some point in 2016-2017. ...

Does "every man internationally" mean "every top non-U.S. man"? Yuzu, Shoma, Boyang, Patrick, Javi, ...

(Cuz Nathan did not meet Vincent or Max internationally in 2016-17.)
 
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Crossover

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The field is getting deeper as Vincent's joining to the seniors and Joshua's comeback, so the Olympic team selection will be very fiercer than ever. I hope everyone show the best of what they have. I'm excited already!
 

Mrs. P

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Corrected. I thought I had included Zhou...but apparently not!

As for Nathan -- yes, technically Nathan did not face Max or Vincent internationally, but he did beat them at nationals, so I think it's far to say he's beaten just about everybody. I'll edit accordingly.
 
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ice coverage

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Corrected. I thought I had included Zhou...but apparently not!

As for Nathan -- yes, technically Nathan did not face Max or Vincent internationally, but he did beat them at nationals, so I think it's far to say he's beaten just about everybody. I'll edit accordingly.

Absolutely agree :agree: that it is fair to say that Nathan has beaten everybody, one way or the other.
And he has far outscored other U.S. men.

Thanks for your edits, which have satisfied the precision monster in me :devil: :hopelessness:.

I already am rather terrified by the prospect of the bloodbath ahead, but good luck to all the men in your OP.

I keep recalling that in May 2013, Jason was a dark horse for Sochi, so I would never say never about anyone :popcorn:.
 
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Sam-Skwantch

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Wasn't there a kid (Russian transfer) who should be about senior who had quads at a young age? I think his dad posted on YouTube in the comments for JGP events. Am I again misremembering reality :eek::

Where is he at if in fact he exists?
 

karne

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Wasn't there a kid (Russian transfer) who should be about senior who had quads at a young age? I think his dad posted on YouTube in the comments for JGP events. Am I again misremembering reality :eek::

Where is he at if in fact he exists?

Alexei Krasnozhon?
 

plushyfan

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I saw Vincent live at JWCH 2016. I liked him a lot! I knew he has great future! Another favrorite is Torgashev since 2015. I thought he and Petr Gumennic will be great opponents for each other. I'm waiting Andrew's great seasons since that. I know he was seriously injured..
 
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Tavi...

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Yeah sorry, they aren't picking a quad-less Brown over Rippon or they need serious re-training lol!

It's pretty clear you prefer Adam's style and programs over Jason's, but if I understand correctly, it also sounds like you think Adam is markedly superior to Jason as a skater. Am I understanding correctly, and if so, could you explain why you think that?

Adam's keeping his "Birds" LP for the Olympic season and is skating spectacular for just having his foot broken and a long rehab with it.
And never count out Jeremy if he does decide to announce his comeback as he's skating better now than ever.

It sounds like you've maybe seen some of the SOI shows? If so, would you mind talking a bit about what you've seen in Adam's post-injury skating? I've seen some clips but for me seeing someone live is different.

Thanks.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Wasn't there a kid (Russian transfer) who should be about senior who had quads at a young age? I think his dad posted on YouTube in the comments for JGP events. Am I again misremembering reality :eek::

Where is he at if in fact he exists?

Alexei Krasnozhon?

Ugh, how could I forget him? I thinking seniors, that's why...will add to list.
 

ice coverage

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... Wow, we're to the Olympic season already. It seemed like just yesterday we were on the 2013-2014 thread, i.e. Sochi! Now we're on to journey Pyeongchang. The question is, which of the U.S. men will end up there come February?

As I did to open the previous season's thread, I will look at the current top contenders, dark horses and other men.

.... Alexei Krasnozhon Reigning U.S. Nationals champion in the junior level. Alex, as he likes to be called, had a few breakthroughs, including making the JGPF for the first time. It sounds like he will remain junior on the international level at least, but we may see him as a senior in San Jose. He's been working on his 4Lo, which was ratified, but the jump isn't quite consistent yet. I'm looking forward to seeing his progress on the jump. ....

As a fan of Krasnozhon, I look forward to seeing him in the coming season :popcorn:.

Regarding the Olympics, I do not know what his citizenship status is?

In any case, his own thoughts about 2017-18 goals:

FSO: Next season, you will be competing senior in the U.S., but remaining on the junior level internationally. What are some of your early goals for next season?

AK: Next season, I want to win the Junior Grand Prix Final and obviously win two of my Junior Grand Prixs, if I get a Junior Grand Prix. We will see how that goes and if U.S. Figure Skating will decide to give me one or not. It will depend on how I skate at Broadmoor (Open, a club competition in June). I also want to start my season with three quads in my free skate. That’s a good goal. I want to do two (quad) loops and a (quad) salchow. Since it is an Olympic year next year, I don’t expect to make the Olympics. It is not my year. However at Nationals, I would like to make top 10. That’s quite a big goal. I think next year in my short program as a senior I want to do a quad loop-triple combo. I think that will be quite impressive. 

http://figureskatersonline.com/news...ow-a-russian-born-texas-loving-figure-skater/ (Mar 14)​

FYI for Sam-S: If part of your question was literally "where" he is, the answer is that Alex trains in Dallas with the Cains.
 

mrrice

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As a fan of Krasnozhon, I look forward to seeing him in the coming season :popcorn:.

Regarding the Olympics, I do not know what his citizenship status is?

In any case, his own thoughts about 2017-18 goals:

FSO: Next season, you will be competing senior in the U.S., but remaining on the junior level internationally. What are some of your early goals for next season?

AK: Next season, I want to win the Junior Grand Prix Final and obviously win two of my Junior Grand Prixs, if I get a Junior Grand Prix. We will see how that goes and if U.S. Figure Skating will decide to give me one or not. It will depend on how I skate at Broadmoor (Open, a club competition in June). I also want to start my season with three quads in my free skate. That’s a good goal. I want to do two (quad) loops and a (quad) salchow. Since it is an Olympic year next year, I don’t expect to make the Olympics. It is not my year. However at Nationals, I would like to make top 10. That’s quite a big goal. I think next year in my short program as a senior I want to do a quad loop-triple combo. I think that will be quite impressive. 

http://figureskatersonline.com/news...ow-a-russian-born-texas-loving-figure-skater/ (Mar 14)​

FYI for Sam-S: If part of your question was literally "where" he is, the answer is that Alex trains in Dallas with the Cains.

Is Alex the one who did "Rodeo" for his free program? If so, unless he's too old, I hope he stays a Junior. To me, he's like Starr Andrews and has future champion written all over him. My fear with both Alex and Starr, is that they'll push themselves and their young bodies too hard, too soon and that could hurt them in the long run. I hope they have a great season but, as good as they are, I can't see either them medaling in the Senior ranks at Nationals. As great as Alex's jumps are, he's still behind Nathan, Max, and Vincent technically. When it comes to components, he's not in the ball park with any of the top 5 Men. Especially if Joshua and Jeremy return..

Wild Card Alert!! What's going on with Richard Dornbush???? He could certainly stir things up.....:confused2:
 
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frida80

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As a fan of Krasnozhon, I look forward to seeing him in the coming season :popcorn:.

Regarding the Olympics, I do not know what his citizenship status is?

In any case, his own thoughts about 2017-18 goals:

FSO: Next season, you will be competing senior in the U.S., but remaining on the junior level internationally. What are some of your early goals for next season?

AK: Next season, I want to win the Junior Grand Prix Final and obviously win two of my Junior Grand Prixs, if I get a Junior Grand Prix. We will see how that goes and if U.S. Figure Skating will decide to give me one or not. It will depend on how I skate at Broadmoor (Open, a club competition in June). I also want to start my season with three quads in my free skate. That’s a good goal. I want to do two (quad) loops and a (quad) salchow. Since it is an Olympic year next year, I don’t expect to make the Olympics. It is not my year. However at Nationals, I would like to make top 10. That’s quite a big goal. I think next year in my short program as a senior I want to do a quad loop-triple combo. I think that will be quite impressive. 

http://figureskatersonline.com/news...ow-a-russian-born-texas-loving-figure-skater/ (Mar 14)​

FYI for Sam-S: If part of your question was literally "where" he is, the answer is that Alex trains in Dallas with the Cains.

Wow! He's really going to push the envelope next year! US men's skating future looks bright. It's difficult to believe that the reigning US champ won't get a JGP. But his citizenship status worries me. Many lower ranked skaters often start skating for other countries because they think they'll go further with a different fed. Now getting citizenship is more complicated than ever. If things don't work out he may have no choice but to skate for Russia.

Ill still cheer for him regardless. But I hope he's gotten than worked out if not by now, really soon.
 

apgold

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After years of the US men being somewhat lackluster, we have such a deep field of artistic skaters and tech marvels and hopefully a combo of both will emerge.

Nathan and Vincent certainly have the tech content, but are still developing their PCS side. Then we have Adam and Jason, who have high PCS with iffy quads. And then there's Max, who's coming off a disappointing season and the return of wildcard Josh Farris. Plus all the other guys listed above, it certainly will be an interesting season. I just wish they are all relatively injury free and are able to skate well this season.
 

karne

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After years of the US men being somewhat lackluster,.

You mean, "after years of the one US man who could do multi quad free skates getting beaten up from pillar to post by the USFS, suddenly they've decided it's great because these cute kids are doing it"...
 

andromache

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You mean, "after years of the one US man who could do multi quad free skates getting beaten up from pillar to post by the USFS, suddenly they've decided it's great because these cute kids are doing it"...

Having the quads doesn't matter if you're not skating clean.

(And I know what happens next - 2016 Nationals is brought up, where Max wuzrobbed, apparently - he did skate cleanish there, but unfortunately didn't sell the performance the way he did when he won Skate America. 2016 Nationals LP Max didn't skate with conviction. Still, silver at Nationals was still great, and he went to Worlds, where he skated great.)

When Max skates great, he is definitely rewarded. But he tends to skate poorly about as often as he skates great, and that's not the fault of USFS or the fans.
 

karne

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When Max skates great, he is definitely rewarded.

Yeah? When was the last time Max ever got 91 PCS for stroke-stroke-jump? Oh that's right, he never did. We heard all about how it was the end of the world when he got 81 PCS, but it's totally okay for stroke-stroke-jump to get 91 PCS, just as long as it's a cute kid and not Max.
 

andromache

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Yeah? When was the last time Max ever got 91 PCS for stroke-stroke-jump? Oh that's right, he never did. We heard all about how it was the end of the world when he got 81 PCS, but it's totally okay for stroke-stroke-jump to get 91 PCS, just as long as it's a cute kid and not Max.

Reputation matters, whether we like it or not. Nathan came to Nationals as a GPF medalist. If Max came to Nationals as a GPF medalist, he'd get the benefit of the PCS too. Yet again, it comes back to delivering medal-winning performances on a frequent enough basis.

I'm not saying it's fair, but it has nothing to do with anti-Max bias or pro-cute-kid bias.

ETA: And LOL, entire topics have been devoted to complaining about Nathan's PCS. Who has ever said it's totally okay when there are entire topics devoted to how Nathan is overscored? There's wayyyyyy more complaining about Nathan's PCS than I've ever seen about Max's. Let's be real here.
 
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Ice Dance

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Is Alex the one who did "Rodeo" for his free program?

Yes.

He is 17 as of this April. I would expect him to compete as a senior in the summer, one Senior B if he gets it, and Nationals. Similar to Nathan's season two years ago and Vincent's last year. It seemed to work for them. Kraznozhon won junior nationals this season by twenty points, despite being behind after the short program. He finished 8th at Junior Worlds this year with a solid competition.

He has, as far as I recall, had one quad planned in his free skates for the past two years--the loop. Had it ratified with a UR at one JGP event last season, without a UR at JGP Slovenia with -2.64 GOE this season, and with a UR at the JGPF. Had it downgraded at his other 2 JGPs, Junior Worlds, and both Nationals.
 

silverlake22

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Yeah? When was the last time Max ever got 91 PCS for stroke-stroke-jump? Oh that's right, he never did. We heard all about how it was the end of the world when he got 81 PCS, but it's totally okay for stroke-stroke-jump to get 91 PCS, just as long as it's a cute kid and not Max.

Nationals this season was like an apology for Nathan after he should have won silver (or maybe even gold) last year. Max unfortunately didn't skate his best at Nationals, but if he had, then I suspect he would have garnered some big scores as well, given he really should have won last year. He and Nathan were both seriously hosed at 2016 Nationals and I think USFS finally realized it. But Max's mistakes in the SP meant he was in an early group and wasn't going to get the PCS bump of skating in the final flight.

I don't think Max is being personally attacked for his skating, it more seems that his skating isn't the best fit for the current state of COP. I mean, we all saw what happened to Joubert in 2013 and 2014, even when he was skating well, it didn't matter, the scores and placements were still low. Under 6.0 I think a case could have been made for Joubert to win bronze in Sochi, in reality he was 13th.

Anyways, I think plenty of people appreciate Max and wish he was more rewarded for his good skates. I also strongly feel USFS would have no issue putting him on the Olympic team if he has a good fall season & finishes in the top 3 at Nationals.
 
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