2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

musicfan80 · May 27, 2017

karne said:
I love that Josh's first GP back he is with Jason.

My first thought when I saw that they were assigned to NHK was "I hope Jason has Josh in the NHK Trophy video" (if Jason does a video about NHK Trophy).

Tahuu said:
With 2 quads, maybe 3, Josh will smash Jason.

Maybe. I think Jason will also try for at least 1 quad in the SP and 2 quads in the LP. I LOVE Joshua's skating, but I will be SHOCKED if he has even 2 quads in his LP. Seeing him do 3 quads will probably make me go :yahoo:

for a long time. Someone might have to check on me. :laugh:

mrrice said:
Well, I don't know about smash but, it wouldn't surprise me to see Josh win if he go's clean. Joshua is one of the few skaters that can beat Jason, even in Components. I have seen them both perform live and back when they were Juniors, I saw Joshua beat Jason week in and week out. It will depend on Jason and his quad-quads. Even if Jason decides to try his quad, I really can't see him beating Joshua unless Joshua makes a couple of mistakes. Since Joshua has not been competing, I think it might take a couple of outings to get his groove back. Either way, I'll be happy to see them out on the ice together again.

We'll have to wait to see what Josh looks like in competition AND how his PCS looks and is judged. It may come down to the difference in their 3As.

el henry · May 27, 2017

musicfan80 said:
My first thought when I saw that they were assigned to NHK was "I hope Jason has Josh in the NHK Trophy video" (if Jason does a video about NHK Trophy).

.....

I don't think you need to worry, I think Jason will include everyone, but definitely his buddy Josh. Have you seen this? Baby Josh and baby Jason were adorable in this tour of the food at 2012 junior worlds:

https://www.facebook.com/isufigureskating/videos/10150708654160664/

karne · May 27, 2017

el henry said:
I don't think you need to worry, I think Jason will include everyone, but definitely his buddy Josh. Have you seen this? Baby Josh and baby Jason were adorable in this tour of the food at 2012 junior worlds:

https://www.facebook.com/isufigureskating/videos/10150708654160664/

AHHH THE ADORABLE FOOD TOUR IS BACK :love:

IT'S SO CUTE AND THEY WERE SO LITTLE!

mrrice · May 27, 2017

karne said:
AHHH THE ADORABLE FOOD TOUR IS BACK IT'S SO CUTE AND THEY WERE SO LITTLE!

Holy Cow, El Henry, Karne...................That was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jason sounds like he was still in Chicago back then. My Dad is from Chicago and I used to make fun of his accent all the time. Being a military brat, I was born in Germany. I remember watching Zoom, HR Puffnstuff, Sesame Street, and Hobo Kelly to learn English when I was very young....Thanks for that clip.. :cheer2:

musicfan80 · May 28, 2017

el henry said:
I don't think you need to worry, I think Jason will include everyone, but definitely his buddy Josh. Have you seen this? Baby Josh and baby Jason were adorable in this tour of the food at 2012 junior worlds:

https://www.facebook.com/isufigureskating/videos/10150708654160664/

No, I had not seen this video - but thanks for sharing. To be fair to Josh not being about to eat any of that, I don't think much of it looked that appetizing to eat. Why would they wrap (what looked like) sausage and sauerkraut in a tortilla? :scratch2:

I hope Josh was kidding about not knowing about the cheese/tomato/olive skewers.

mrrice said:
That was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jason sounds like he was still in Chicago back then. My Dad is from Chicago and I used to make fun of his accent all the time.

It's a tad shame Jason lost a lot of that Chicago accent. I don't think that Joshua has an particular American accent. I think that's common with people who have lived all of their life in the Western U.S.

Tavi... · May 28, 2017

musicfan80 said:
No, I had not seen this video - but thanks for sharing. To be fair to Josh not being about to eat any of that, I don't think much of it looked that appetizing to eat. Why would they wrap (what looked like) sausage and sauerkraut in a tortilla? I hope Josh was kidding about not knowing about the cheese/tomato/olive skewers.

It's a tad shame Jason lost a lot of that Chicago accent. I don't think that Joshua has an particular American accent. I think that's common with people who have lived all of their life in the Western U.S.

Mmm. As someone who grew up in the Chicago area, I would say Jason still has quite a strong north shore Chicago accent. I noticed it a lot in his recent Ice Talk interview with Jackie. He also uses a lot of Chicago / Midwestern expressions.

Arriba627 · May 28, 2017

^^^Sounds 100% Chicago to me! :agree:

el henry · Jun 1, 2017

Ok, I have to post this somewhere.

Alex Johnson's footwork on a new Rohene LP (I am assuming it is the LP, because I hear Rohene's voice). *This* is why I watch figure skating.....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvBwi_DuMg/?taken-by=alexmartinj

And Alex and Rohene shaking their groove thang... (also why I watch skating :laugh:

)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUzy5C9DeIK/?taken-by=alexmartinj

Gosh darn, Alex, please be consistent and slay with this program

Ic3Rabbit · Jun 1, 2017

el henry said:
Ok, I have to post this somewhere.

Alex Johnson's footwork on a new Rohene LP (I am assuming it is the LP, because I hear Rohene's voice). *This* is why I watch figure skating.....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvBwi_DuMg/?taken-by=alexmartinj

And Alex and Rohene shaking their groove thang... (also why I watch skating)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUzy5C9DeIK/?taken-by=alexmartinj

Gosh darn, Alex, please be consistent and slay with this program

This is his LP. Tom Dickson did the choreo for Alex's SP to "Legends" by Sacred Spirit.

Seren · Jun 1, 2017

I don't agree with The idea that Josh will easily beat Jason. Jason has been competing at this high level for the several years that Josh has been injured. It's not realistic to expect Josh to have everything figured out his first few competitions- we don't know how he is going to perform. Jason may mess up the quad but he doesn't throw the rest of the program away (I'm not saying Josh does but it's really hard to get back in that groove again after being away). I don't think Josh is inherently better than Jason, they are different in ways that are both great.

I would be surprised to see Josh beat Jason of the Grand Prix- stranger things have happened, but comebacks are hard.

SnowWhite · Jun 2, 2017

Seren said:
I don't agree with The idea that Josh will easily beat Jason. Jason has been competing at this high level for the several years that Josh has been injured. It's not realistic to expect Josh to have everything figured out his first few competitions- we don't know how he is going to perform. Jason may mess up the quad but he doesn't throw the rest of the program away (I'm not saying Josh does but it's really hard to get back in that groove again after being away). I don't think Josh is inherently better than Jason, they are different in ways that are both great.

I would be surprised to see Josh beat Jason of the Grand Prix- stranger things have happened, but comebacks are hard.

Very true. Some very high profile skaters have missed at least one season in the past couple of seasons, and Virtue/Moir are the only ones who come to mind as not having struggled at least somewhat, for whatever reason. Chan, Mao, Kostner (not saying she wouldn't consider this year's results a success, but it was clear at Worlds she's not currently where she was), V/T, etc. And dance hasn't leapt forward technically the way men's has. Josh isn't as high profile as them, but it just goes to show that what you said is true. Comebacks are hard.

karne · Jun 2, 2017

Seren said:
I don't agree with The idea that Josh will easily beat Jason. Jason has been competing at this high level for the several years that Josh has been injured. It's not realistic to expect Josh to have everything figured out his first few competitions- we don't know how he is going to perform. Jason may mess up the quad but he doesn't throw the rest of the program away (I'm not saying Josh does but it's really hard to get back in that groove again after being away). I don't think Josh is inherently better than Jason, they are different in ways that are both great.

You'll notice the only person who has posted this claim is a renowned Jason-hater.

For me, I will just be overjoyed to see him compete again.

bevybean · Jun 2, 2017

el henry said:
Ok, I have to post this somewhere.

Alex Johnson's footwork on a new Rohene LP (I am assuming it is the LP, because I hear Rohene's voice). *This* is why I watch figure skating.....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvBwi_DuMg/?taken-by=alexmartinj

And Alex and Rohene shaking their groove thang... (also why I watch skating)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUzy5C9DeIK/?taken-by=alexmartinj

Gosh darn, Alex, please be consistent and slay with this program

Thanks for posting! I really started to notice Alex from his exhibition piece a couple seasons ago and it was the footwork that really drew me in.

mrrice · Jun 2, 2017

el henry said:
Ok, I have to post this somewhere.

Alex Johnson's footwork on a new Rohene LP (I am assuming it is the LP, because I hear Rohene's voice). *This* is why I watch figure skating.....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvBwi_DuMg/?taken-by=alexmartinj

And Alex and Rohene shaking their groove thang... (also why I watch skating)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUzy5C9DeIK/?taken-by=alexmartinj

Gosh darn, Alex, please be consistent and slay with this program

I have always liked Alex and if he can hold it together, I can see him doing really well at nationals. Does he have a quad? You know, they way then Men look right now it seems like it would impossible to make the team without one. Nathan, Adam, Vincent, Max, Joshua, Grant, and Ross are all capable of landing quads and I can't imagine that even Jason will make the team if he can't get his quads to hit with consistency.

el henry · Jun 2, 2017

mrrice said:
I have always liked Alex and if he can hold it together, I can see him doing really well at nationals. Does he have a quad? You know, they way then Men look right now it seems like it would impossible to make the team without one. Nathan, Adam, Vincent, Max, Joshua, Grant, and Ross are all capable of landing quads and I can't imagine that even Jason will make the team if he can't get his quads to hit with consistency.

Mr Rice, I don't know if Alex has a quad because it's not important to me.

But I know it is important to the judges.

But I'm wondering about your list of skaters who "have quads". Nathan, Vincent, and Max appear to be capable of consistently landing quads. Period. If figure skating were just a quad landing comp, well, I leave it there.....

But as for the rest???? :scratch2:

Josh, whom I love, Grant, who has excited me with Les Miz, Ross, whose SP I adore even if he ran it into the ground, do not have *consistent* quads. (ETA: Josh probably was fairly consistent, but the poor guy is coming back after two seasons off, so I'm surely not counting on that now). Jason, in head to head competitions with all of them, has finished consistently ahead of Grant and Ross and IIRC has traded off with Josh as a senior. And of course it is as a senior that counts now.

Adam and Jason in competition appear to have quads of the same consistency and skill. I love my NE Pennsylvania homeboy Adam, but to say he is more capable of landing a quad than Jason is not based on any comps I've seen or any first hand practice reports I've heard (from people who have seen *both* Adam and Jason practice). And of course Jason has finished ahead of Adam in every head to head comp they've had since 2013.

So I wouldn't be so negative about Jason, at least not yet. We shall see what we shall see next season

mrrice · Jun 2, 2017

el henry said:
Mr Rice, I don't know if Alex has a quad because it's not important to me. But I know it is important to the judges.

But I'm wondering about your list of skaters who "have quads". Nathan, Vincent, and Max appear to be capable of consistently landing quads. Period. If figure skating were just a quad landing comp, well, I leave it there.....

But as for the rest???? Josh, whom I love, Grant, who has excited me with Les Miz, Ross, whose SP I adore even if he ran it into the ground, do not have *consistent* quads. (ETA: Josh probably was fairly consistent, but the poor guy is coming back after two seasons off, so I'm surely not counting on that now). Jason, in head to head competitions with all of them, has finished consistently ahead of Grant and Ross and IIRC has traded off with Josh as a senior. And of course it is as a senior that counts now.

Adam and Jason in competition appear to have quads of the same consistency and skill. I love my NE Pennsylvania homeboy Adam, but to say he is more capable of landing a quad than Jason is not based on any comps I've seen or any first hand practice reports I've heard (from people who have seen *both* Adam and Jason practice). And of course Jason has finished ahead of Adam in every head to head comp they've had since 2013.

So I wouldn't be so negative about Jason, at least not yet. We shall see what we shall see next season

I don't know what to make of Jason. I've been watching him since he was a tiny junior competing against Joshua and Shotaro. I remember when they swept the World Podium in 2013. Jason has always had a magic about him but, without a solid quad, I simply couldn't put him on the Olympic Team and leave a skater like Max Arron at home. Barring a meltdown, Nathan will be on the team. The Judges love Adam and when he's healthy, especially if he keeps that bird inspired LP, his components are a match for Jason's. That leaves 1 spot for about 6 skaters who all have quads, including Junior World Champion Vincent.....It's going to be a big battle at Nationals. PS.......Where in the world is Ricky Dornbush??????

concorde · Jun 2, 2017

Remember that at last year's Nationals, the podium was Nathan, Vincent, and Jason. USFS opted to send Jason to Worlds over Vincent. I disagreed with that decision but the strategy worked and they secured a third Olympic spot.

My point - don't count Vincent out!

I am really optimistc that Adam will come back event stronger. I was lucky to see him in practice a couple of weeks back and he looks good. And he was a great attitude about his state of recovery.

If I were to guess, those 4 are vying for the 3 spots. Nathan pretty much has a lock on one so the fight is really between those the other 3.

MFarone · Jun 2, 2017

I really enjoy Alex Johnson's skating. He had a very severe ankle injury a few years ago (severe ligament damage) and a result of the surgery was nerve damage in his leg and he frequently has no feeling in his right foot. When he started talking about training quads I just cringed....I would hate to see any more injuries. Anyway, he just turned 27 in May, so I doubt whether we will see a quad from him. Wishing him the best for a great season and I would like to see a GP event for him.

Tavi... · Jun 2, 2017

mrrice said:
Well, I don't know about smash but, it wouldn't surprise me to see Josh win if he go's clean. Joshua is one of the few skaters that can beat Jason, even in Components. I have seen them both perform live and back when they were Juniors, I saw Joshua beat Jason week in and week out. It will depend on Jason and his quad-quads. Even if Jason decides to try his quad, I really can't see him beating Joshua unless Joshua makes a couple of mistakes. Since Joshua has not been competing, I think it might take a couple of outings to get his groove back. Either way, I'll be happy to see them out on the ice together again.

mrrice said:
I have always liked Alex and if he can hold it together, I can see him doing really well at nationals. Does he have a quad? You know, they way then Men look right now it seems like it would impossible to make the team without one. Nathan, Adam, Vincent, Max, Joshua, Grant, and Ross are all capable of landing quads and I can't imagine that even Jason will make the team if he can't get his quads to hit with consistency.

mrrice said:
I don't know what to make of Jason. I've been watching him since he was a tiny junior competing against Joshua and Shotaro. I remember when they swept the World Podium in 2013. Jason has always had a magic about him but, without a solid quad, I simply couldn't put him on the Olympic Team and leave a skater like Max Arron at home. Barring a meltdown, Nathan will be on the team. The Judges love Adam and when he's healthy, especially if he keeps that bird inspired LP, his components are a match for Jason's. That leaves 1 spot for about 6 skaters who all have quads, including Junior World Champion Vincent.....It's going to be a big battle at Nationals. PS.......Where in the world is Ricky Dornbush??????

Mrrice: you have previously said that you used to actively root against Jason as a junior because you didn't want him to beat Josh. You still seem to have trouble seeing him and the other US men objectively. While you may prefer Josh, Adam, Max, and others to Jason, the idea that Jason has no chance to beat Josh unless Josh makes mistakes is just as silly as the idea that if both Jason and Adam are healthy, Adam will always beat Jason, or that a guy who lands a quad will always score higher than one who doesn't.

For the record, Josh has never beaten Jason "week in and week out" as a junior or as a senior, and in fact, Jason placed significantly higher than Josh when they competed at 2015 Worlds, their last competition together. As to Adam, last season Jason beat him at all their head to head matchups. Quads? Well yeah, Jason hasn't landed a fully-rotated one in competition yet. But it's not like Josh and Adam do it consistently - over several years, they've only landed a couple each. More to the point, a quadless Jason still outscores a lot of guys with quads; he has a significantly higher personal best than any US man except Nathan, and his component scores are far and away the highest of any US man currently skating (the judges may love Adam, but they appear to love Jason more: his components are 3 points higher than Adam's in SP and nearly 4-1/2 points higher in the FS). That could all change next year, but at the moment, that's the way things stand. One final thing: when he's healthy, Jason, like Nathan, is an incredibly gritty, consistent competitor. Many of the other US guys are not.

mrrice · Jun 2, 2017

Tavi... said:
Mrrice: you have previously said that you used to actively root against Jason as a junior because you didn't want him to beat Josh. You still seem to have trouble seeing him and the other US men objectively. While you may prefer Josh, Adam, Max, and others to Jason, the idea that Jason has no chance to beat Josh unless Josh makes mistakes is just as silly as the idea that if both Jason and Adam are healthy, Adam will always beat Jason, or that a guy who lands a quad will always score higher than one who doesn't.

For the record, Josh has never beaten Jason "week in and week out" as a junior or as a senior, and in fact, Jason placed significantly higher than Josh when they competed at 2015 Worlds, their last competition together. As to Adam, last season Jason beat him at all their head to head matchups. Quads? Well yeah, Jason hasn't landed a fully-rotated one in competition yet. But it's not like Josh and Adam do it consistently - over several years, they've only landed a couple each. More to the point, a quadless Jason still outscores a lot of guys with quads; he has a significantly higher personal best than any US man except Nathan, and his component scores are far and away the highest of any US man currently skating (the judges may love Adam, but they appear to love Jason more: his components are 3 points higher than Adam's in SP and nearly 4-1/2 points higher in the FS). That could all change next year, but at the moment, that's the way things stand. One final thing: when he's healthy, Jason, like Nathan, is an incredibly gritty, consistent competitor. Many of the other US guys are not.

I'm so guilty because this is completely true........... :drama:

2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

musicfan80

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

mrrice

musicfan80

Tavi...

Arriba627

TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION 🔥

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Seren

Wakabond Forever

SnowWhite

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

bevybean

mrrice

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

mrrice

concorde

MFarone

Tavi...

mrrice

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