Evgenia Medvedeva: 2016-17 season

karne · May 25, 2017

Sam L said:
I was watching a Trixi Schuba program and say what you want but her edges were perfect and clean. There
was no mistaking Lutzes and Flips. Is this from the compulsory figures training?

Oh god, not the "everything was perfect in figures days!" again.

Skaters in the figures days still flutzed, still lipped, still underrotated, still downgraded, still had tilted axises, still had bad leg wraps, still had all of the same kinds of jump problems you see today. It is a rose-tinted view that suggests otherwise.

Mathman · May 25, 2017

karne said:
Oh god, not the "everything was perfect in figures days!" again.

Skaters in the figures days still flutzed, still lipped, still underrotated, still downgraded, still had tilted axises, still had bad leg wraps, still had all of the same kinds of jump problems you see today. It is a rose-tinted view that suggests otherwise.

But yet and still, Trixie Schuba had a wicked double Lutz. :yes:

Sam L · May 25, 2017

karne said:
Oh god, not the "everything was perfect in figures days!" again.

Skaters in the figures days still flutzed, still lipped, still underrotated, still downgraded, still had tilted axises, still had bad leg wraps, still had all of the same kinds of jump problems you see today. It is a rose-tinted view that suggests otherwise.

Don't get so defensive, I was only talking about Trixi and especially because everyone keeps saying how bad she was in Free skating. You can still learn a lot from these skaters and I love their technique.

Mathman said:
But yet and still, Trixie Schuba had a wicked double Lutz. :yes:

This.

jenaj · May 25, 2017

karne said:
Oh god, not the "everything was perfect in figures days!" again.

Skaters in the figures days still flutzed, still lipped, still underrotated, still downgraded, still had tilted axises, still had bad leg wraps, still had all of the same kinds of jump problems you see today. It is a rose-tinted view that suggests otherwise.

I don't think that's true--at least not among the top skaters. Remember, they were just doing doubles. Janet Lynn's double lutz at 1973 Worlds is a thing of beauty. If it were a triple, it would be Yuna Kim-quality.

geige · May 25, 2017

I think some people replying on this thread shouldn't accuse people for singling people out when they manage to single out and slander skaters that aren't their favorites all the time.

So what if we're beating a dead horse here? Jeez.

Barb · May 25, 2017

Can Evgenia afford flutz calls? her scores are so high

could she lose a title because of her flutz?

jaylee · May 26, 2017

[email protected] said:
Here is the link with clear pictures and jump-a-matrons of flutzes by Wakaba, Mai, and Gabi. Let's discuss them as well to be fair or what?

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figura_rechi/1261248.html

I used Google Translate, so can you confirm that this article actually blames (implies they had something to do with) Yu-Na Kim and Brian Orser for supposedly playing a part in rule changes regarding edge calls, since Kim's top rival, Asada, had a major flutz? If that's so, that's utter garbage. Neither Kim nor Orser had anything to do with the edge rule changes (newsflash: it's NEVER been okay to flutz). And btw, Kim also got punished as well under the edge call rules, so the argument makes no sense.

CanadianSkaterGuy · May 26, 2017

She's not getting the edge call and she covers it up well enough to show an intended lutz (even starting very deliberately on an outside edge).

Her lutz and flip technique/entry are different enough. It's kinda like Shoma's lutz... yes it's not a definitive outside edge and sometimes is an inside edge but the entry and mechanics of the jump are that of a lutz.

Also I disagree with the whole "if one panel calls it, others should too". Firstly a skater should have every competition treated independently of others. After all, if they UR a jump in one instance we aren't saying they should get UR called for that jump the rest of the season. Secondly (and I'm being somewhat facetious here) you could also say the opposite - if many specialists are accepting it as a true lutz then why should any specialist call the edge?

Also, as others have said Lmao at starting a thread with "I'm no hater but here's a video/compilation discrediting that skater". :laugh:

Marius · May 26, 2017

breadstal said:
It's something that is really hard to fix, it took literally whole career for Mao to do this. I don't think it's really on her mind with Olympics season ahead, good that she's aware of that but I don't see her correcting it anytime soon. It's just sad how things like that are just not called and it's not only about Evgenia tbh, lack of edge calls @ this year's Worlds was just sad.

This!
The problem is not Evgenia's flutz, the problem is Evgenia's Flutz + Kaetlyn's Flutz + Ashley's Flutz + Gracie's Lip + Anna's Lip + Satoko's Lip + Daleman's Flutz + Chen's Lip + Mihara's flutz + Wakaba's Lip and the list goes on.
The fact is that a jump with an incorrect edge on the take off SHOULD get called. The reality is that, in Helsinki, in the top 10 of the FS, the only edge deduction was on Ashley's lutz.
Edge deduction should get called and is not right to say "is not a problem because judges don't favor skater A or skater B if they don't call an edge for both". ISU, at the start of this Olympic Cycle, has even reduced the BV for a jump with an "e" call.
My last point: a jump with an edge problem should get called at least with a "!" because it would help skaters with a correct edge technique, like Kostner -if she will try a Lutz next season- or Sotskova, or Zagitova, or Honda etc.

samkrut@mail.ru · May 26, 2017

jaylee said:
I used Google Translate, so can you confirm that this article actually blames (implies they had something to do with) Yu-Na Kim and Brian Orser for supposedly playing a part in rule changes regarding edge calls, since Kim's top rival, Asada, had a major flutz? If that's so, that's utter garbage. Neither Kim nor Orser had anything to do with the edge rule changes (newsflash: it's NEVER been okay to flutz). And btw, Kim also got punished as well under the edge call rules, so the argument makes no sense.

That's in general quite a biased article with the heavy support of Russian skaters. But it provides flutz pictures and videos some of which are apparently not made by the Russians. As for the rule changes it says: "I don't know who lobbied it but what is clear the beneficiaries were Orser and Kim... because her rival Mao had edge issue and Yuna although not having a loop and having occasional flip edge call had perfect lutz" So the author did not accuse (cause) Orser but stated (effect) that Yuna won after that. Was it necessary to mention it knowing how many sensitive fans Yuna still has? I don't think so. Once again I did not intend to give the article for reading - I just wanted to take the unnecessary heat off Medvedeva.

Tolstoj · May 26, 2017

icybear said:
***** *****! Is it not possible to have a discussion without accusing people. I never said a bad word about Evgenia in my post. It's unfortunate for you that you think talking about skater's errors as "hating"

Wait a sec, i didn't say you are an hater but you are posting a video from these users, please don't.

The point of all these videos is to prove that Evgenia is the only flutzer in the world, hoping judges will start to lowball her scores or to prove that Yuna is the best. They did that also with Adelina and Mao and even Carolina in the past.

I can't stand with their arguments.

xeyra · May 26, 2017

icybear said:
***** *****! Is it not possible to have a discussion without accusing people. I never said a bad word about Evgenia in my post. It's unfortunate for you that you think talking about skater's errors as "hating"

I think the issue, icybear, was starting a thread singling out Evgenia in the title. There's another current thread about Lip and Flutz with a far less incendiary title but it does have a lot less posts, so in the end incendiary titles do their job as much here as in any news site.

tars · May 26, 2017

drivingmissdaisy said:
That there are more important things than whether a skater flutzes or not. A missed edge call does not affect my enjoyment of the sport at all, unless it impacts the outcome. As someone else noted, Evgenia does only one lutz per competition, so the benefit is minimal compared with skaters who get away with 2 or 3 flutzes.

So why not just abandon jump differentiating, if it's not important to fans (like yourself) and judges? :shrug:

jFarrisFAN · May 26, 2017

What I think a lot of people don't understand is how evgenia abuses the angle of the jump to make her edge look less severe. On camera we see from directly behind but the technical specialist only has access to 1 camera angle and that's positioned where they are sitting. The fact that she does it where the opposite corner of the normal "lutz corner" (adjacent to judges) makes it harder to spot where the judges are. It's actually a genius idea because it makes it nearly impossible to see if they edge is severe so a lot of the time they will give no edge call or just a (!) unclear edge call. It's all about the perspective from where the judge is. I saw her live and was sitting very close to the judges and trust me it's hard to spot. It's kind of like how Gracie did her flip towards the corner and they rarely called (e) on her during the 2015-2016 season.

sarama · May 26, 2017

I think Evgenia's flutz has been the same since her junior years. It's not terrible, but it's a clear flutz. She tried different approaches but it never got better or worse.
What annoys me is the inconsitency: between competitions and between skaters. The ISU should set a standard, and make sure the tech specialists stick to it (they aren't that many for Int'l competitions, it's doable). The same thing applies to URs. It's just unfair to those skaters who have good edges and actually rotate their jumps!

Now for Higuchi's Lutz: it is a weird one, for me it's not a flutz but it's not the purest Lutz out there either.

drivingmissdaisy · May 26, 2017

[email protected] said:
That's in general quite a biased article with the heavy support of Russian skaters. But it provides flutz pictures and videos some of which are apparently not made by the Russians. As for the rule changes it says: "I don't know who lobbied it but what is clear the beneficiaries were Orser and Kim... because her rival Mao had edge issue and Yuna although not having a loop and having occasional flip edge call had perfect lutz" So the author did not accuse (cause) Orser but stated (effect) that Yuna won after that. Was it necessary to mention it knowing how many sensitive fans Yuna still has? I don't think so. Once again I did not intend to give the article for reading - I just wanted to take the unnecessary heat off Medvedeva.

I'm actually fine with this. I also didn't have a problem with the push for the 3A in the SP when precisely one skater was doing the jump. Any rule change is the result of someone lobbying for it, typically by those who will benefit.

Sam-Skwantch · May 26, 2017

sarama said:
I think Evgenia's flutz has been the same since her junior years. It's not terrible, but it's a clear flutz. She tried different approaches but it never got better or worse.

It's hard to say but it was a very pronounced flutz as a junior.

This is from JGPF.
https://youtu.be/egd-GIx4MjU

And this is from senior GP
https://youtu.be/Hyc2EYoYQJA

I think it's gotten a bit less obvious though or they've just figured out where the cameras can't spot it. I know they were playing with video recordings at sambo at one point. Maybe they studied the camera angles. :laugh:

TheCzar · May 26, 2017

Hardly a problem for her. The judges have given her a free pass for it- probably all they way to Pyeongchang.

Mathman · May 26, 2017

tars said:
So why not just abandon jump differentiating, if it's not important to fans (like yourself) and judges?

In all seriousness I think there is a case to be made for this. Combine the Lutz and the flip into one jump category, either edge OK for base value of 5.5. Zayak rules say you can repeat the jump once, in combination. A skater can earn a bonus by doing one from each edge. That way you still reward a skater who has a true Lutz and a true flip. Furthermore the the judges and tech panel can be strict with giving out the bonus but do not have to be cutthroat about base value.

There is, of course, more to a Lutz than just the outside edge. The approach and counter-rotation are also defining characteristics.

mrrice · May 26, 2017

chapis said:
Can Evgenia afford flutz calls? her scores are so high

could she lose a title because of her flutz?

This is an excellent question!!! The answer, IMO, is NO. Even with Kaetlyn Osmond in the field. To me, Kaetlyn and Ashley are the only skaters who could beat Med in components. If Med makes an error and Kaetlyn goes clean, I give the OGM to Osmond. The things is, Med has nerves of steel. I love so many skaters but, if I had to pick my dream podium for the Ladies, it would look like this. Med, Osmond, Wagner, in ANY order.

Evgenia Medvedeva: 2016-17 season

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Mathman

Sam L

jenaj

geige

Barb

jaylee

CanadianSkaterGuy

Marius

Art on Ice

[email protected]

Medalist

Tolstoj

xeyra

Constant state

tars

jFarrisFAN

sarama

drivingmissdaisy

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

TheCzar

Mathman

mrrice

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