Duhamel, Radford fire coach

daphenaxa said:

i just saw on twitter that Eric asked his bf in marriage. congrats https://twitter.com/Rad85E/status/873588427924668418

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Awwww.........

Where's the ring?

andromache said:

Can't even to get to page 3 without some Meagan hate. It's a coach change. Coach changes have implications, which can lead to speculation, etc. Like, there is so much else to discuss besides saying nasty things about a woman who likes to talk and analyze her performance and share her feelings with her partner and her coach. God forbid a woman open her mouth. Luckily, Bruno, Eric, et al don't have such backwards ideas about women being more than pretty, silent dolls.

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I didn't read the preceding posts as being about hate or sexism. Just as an opinion that talking through the program can interfere with artistic expression. I agree that it's distracting and does interfere, when it's plainly so visible to viewers. As always, YMMV. I've heard other pairs skaters say they talk to each other during their skates, but it isn't usually so obvious, to me at least. I love how Meagan is always talking to Eric after their skate ends, though, even before they leave the ice. It's something I noticed when I first saw them at Sochi; and I think it's charming. She's always smiling and engaged that way.

andromache said:

Yeah, I'd say that D/F still need time to gel in their current situation before making any changes (wish it would've worked out with Steuer though). But K/O or C/T? Both pairs could benefit from a change.

Speaking of C/T, along with Marcotte and Gauthier's other skaters, I wonder who will stick with who in that break-up. Bruno has always been head coach, but I imagine some skaters may want to stay with Gauthier?

The more I think about it the more weird it is that D/R, in their split with a coach, took the head coach with them. It's pretty odd for a coaching change situation. "We are changing rinks/coaches....but also keeping the head coach." Which is, obviously, because of the marriage! Still, very weird for everyone else involved. And I'm not sure if dumping a co-coach is a big enough change? Idk. Just weird.

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I like your idea about Castelli/Tran; I think Zimmerman, for instance, could really make a difference for them. It's always bugged me that they have so many great qualities but that their technique doesn't match or try to be similar. (or conversely, contrast?) A move could also get Mervin living in the USA, which would help with C/T plan for Olympics 2022. I think Julie Marcotte is an excellent choreographer for them, though. I agree that Kayne/O'Shea could benefit from "new eyes" and choreography, but it's hard to imagine them leaving Peterson.

So Bruno hadn't coached at the new rink before? I hadn't made that connection, but you're right, it's going to force the other skaters into a challenging position.

QuadThrow said:

I have never expected Meagan and Eric to change their team. I believe they are not just frustrated. They seem to be desperate.

IMO the change is too late and not hard enough. They should have split with Bruno and Julie if they had really wanted a fresh start.

All thing went wrong for them last season. Their programs and perfomances were not as good as the years before, they suffered from injuries and all their rivals really improved.

I just cannot see them medal at pyoengchang in any case against breathtaking S/H, S/M (who will own the components), two Russian pairs and strong Y/Z and J/C.

It definitly looks like 7th place

John Zimmermann is the top choach right now. Just remember he is working with S/M as we discuss. Same for John Kerr as a choreographer.

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Really? Because it was seventh at Worlds with Eric super injured, not able to do their harder SBS jumps or get into his spin positions. And according to him, he's doing much better now. And even that injured, they still beat J/C, so why on Earth would you assume that J/C will beat a much healthier D/R at the Olympics. And again, super injured D/R were less than one point behind S/K at Worlds, so it isn't like S/K aren't super beatable for them. Y/Z beat them at Worlds with D/R hurt and at GPF with D/R healthy, but D/R did beat them at 4CC, so again, Y/Z are not solidly above them. I would say only S/H, S/M, and T/M were solidly above them this season actually. So with everyone's performances of last season, D/R could easily enough be fourth. Not crazy to suggest they could pass at least one of the top three, especially since pairs is so difficult and there are lots of mistakes all the time. Look at 2016, D/R won because they were the cleanest.

andromache said:

Speaking of C/T, along with Marcotte and Gauthier's other skaters, I wonder who will stick with who in that break-up. Bruno has always been head coach, but I imagine some skaters may want to stay with Gauthier?

The more I think about it the more weird it is that D/R, in their split with a coach, took the head coach with them. It's pretty odd for a coaching change situation. "We are changing rinks/coaches....but also keeping the head coach." Which is, obviously, because of the marriage! Still, very weird for everyone else involved. And I'm not sure if dumping a co-coach is a big enough change? Idk. Just weird.

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Are we sure the coaches split? Because I read that article as saying that D/R wouldn't work with Gauthier anymore, so they would train at a different rink. Bruno already used a second rink in Montreal for the singles skaters he coached, which is where D/R are going to train, so he could certainly keep coaching at both rinks, though I don't know if he will. But they don't say anything about Bruno splitting from Gauthier, only D/R.

skylark said:

So Bruno hadn't coached at the new rink before? I hadn't made that connection, but you're right, it's going to force the other skaters into a challenging position.

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Bruno has coached at the new rink before. That's where he coaches his singles skaters like Elladj Balde apparently.

SnowWhite said:

Are we sure the coaches split? Because I read that article as saying that D/R wouldn't work with Gauthier anymore, so they would train at a different rink. Bruno already used a second rink in Montreal for the singles skaters he coached, which is where D/R are going to train, so he could certainly keep coaching at both rinks, though I don't know if he will. But they don't say anything about Bruno splitting from Gauthier, only D/R.



Bruno has coached at the new rink before. That's where he coaches his singles skaters like Elladj Balde apparently.

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It's still just...odd? Ditching an assistant/co- coach to train at a new rink where that assistant/co- coach does not work....how big of a change is it? And I'm not saying this out of D/R hate....but I think a bigger change would involve training with Zimmerman full-time. Losing a set of eyes or a voice doesn't sound like the change they really want. And if Bruno has "split" to coach D/R separately from Richard, but continues to train other pairs with Richard....that's a weird, sticky situation. Everyone involved is an adult, and not even immature adults - actual adults, and they have figured it out. Still , since we as fans don't know the specifics, we can acknowledge that, however they're making it work, isn't typical for when a team makes a split from a coach.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Oh, hi there, pink elephant in the room!

You just know this is a reason people hate on Meagan -- not being the silent, classic, pretty pairs skater -- thinking in the KnC instead of plastering on a superficial smile and elegantly (but not too enthusiastically!) waving to the crowd. And don't forget to "say hi to your mom"! And curtsey! And give a soft nod of the head when your marks come up. And always to remember to act like a lady!

She is constantly engaged, and this is fine by me. Yes, that might remove the "magic" where you see an athlete actually thinking and reacting, instead of just rote execution, but I'm pretty sure if it were a man who was analyzing scores or discussing elements after their program (as some of the men do), people would have no issue.

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Some of the worlds more beloved pair skaters (Alyona Savchenko, Ksenia Stolbova, Vanessa James) are just as athletic, muscular, vocal and don't adhere to the "pretty silent princess skater" stereotype; if anything, they're even more feisty than Meagan (hello Sui Wenjing!) and some have been openly critical about their partners, both on and off the ice. If people don't like Meagan it's not because she's a woman who dares to show her personality and speak her mind (she's hardly the first one or the only currently competing one), it has to do with her skating which honestly needs some refinement.

Nightcrawler said:

Some of the worlds more beloved pair skaters (Alyona Savchenko, Ksenia Stolbova, Vanessa James) are just as athletic, muscular, vocal and don't adhere to the "pretty silent princess skater" stereotype; if anything, they're even more feisty than Meagan (hello Sui Wenjing!) and some have been openly critical about their partners, both on and off the ice. If people don't like Meagan it's not because she's a woman who dares to show her personality and speak her mind (she's hardly the first one or the only currently competing one), it has to do with her skating which honestly needs some refinement.

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I mean.....I basically agree with you, but there are posts in this thread which criticize Meagan for talking. Soooooo.....

Ryan O said:

Zimmerman may be good looking, but he doesn't have the experience of Gauthier.

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Could not agree more! In fact it will be interesting to see how long it will last as JZ has quite an Ego and well let's just say he doesn't play nice with other coaches unless he is in control! So time will tell how long it lasts

andromache said:

I mean.....I basically agree with you, but there are posts in this thread which criticize Meagan for talking. Soooooo.....

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And that's really uncalled for. A person should always be free to express themselves as long as it's done in a respectful manner (and I don't recall Meagan ever being disrespectful to anyone).
However, I feel that most of the criticism she gets for her skating is fair; her arm carriage, her posture and the unfortunate choice of programs is something she can work on and improve. She has improved but to me she's still behind the top teams, even more so if D&R skate to "Je ne regrette rien" which does nothing to highlight their strengths.
Let's hope this coach change will bring them to their right direction. J&C have shown some impressive results under John Zimmerman.

^^ perhaps but before I were to agree with you that Meagan is so much weaker than other skaters, why isn't anyone looking at Bruno?? Why were his awkward hip motions in their SP this year found cute and endearing? If Meagan had moved that badly, she would have been ridiculed ad nauseam.... Same with James and Cipres.... you cannot say that their basic skating is as smooth as some of the other top pairs... Yes! They are super exciting to watch and they had great programs. They also are stunningly beautiful and exploit their sensual looks to the max...but looking at basic skating skills, they are pretty average in the pairs field right now.... People just pick up on people like they did in high school.... bullying for no real reason. And with all the accusations that they should develop their artistry and skating, instead of learning new throws or jumps, it's simple, one just has to look at their beginnings and Meagan and Eric has done a lot of work in developing their skating. A lot. They have improved so much. And to get back to the coach changes, sometimes, you just have a bad year, and changing environment is what you need....one doesn't need to switch the environment completely, just replacing one person on the team is often enough for that... they are not planning to relearn everything from scratch, they simply hope for a new climate. Meagan has said it on interview before, i m not sure if it were after the 1st or the 2nd of their WC, but she said, that Richard was the one who believed in her, and then, in them, and taught them pretty much everything, and allowed for them, though they don't fit the classical pairs mold, to become world champions.... and i am sure that this is not going to change in anyone's mind....

the rest, gossips, hatred, and bad energy.... no need...


GO MEAGAN and ERIC

Good for them... take control of their destiny and take true reign of their Olympics journey.

I am a big fan of risk takers that goes against the odds, it will be interesting to see how t affect their performance/ranking next year.

Never let the odds keep you from doing what you know in your heart you were meant to do.

Nightcrawler said:

Some of the worlds more beloved pair skaters (Alyona Savchenko, Ksenia Stolbova, Vanessa James) are just as athletic, muscular, vocal and don't adhere to the "pretty silent princess skater" stereotype; if anything, they're even more feisty than Meagan (hello Sui Wenjing!) and some have been openly critical about their partners, both on and off the ice. If people don't like Meagan it's not because she's a woman who dares to show her personality and speak her mind (she's hardly the first one or the only currently competing one), it has to do with her skating which honestly needs some refinement.

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Openly critical about their partners-Wenjjng? Where did you get this info? Or how did you find out?

From what I know, Sui/ Han have a very good relationship. Admire each other, help each other. No idea where you come with this view

yqs100 said:

Openly critical about their partners-Wenjjng? Where did you get this info? Or how did you find out?

From what I know, Sui/ Han have a very good relationship. Admire each other, help each other. No idea where you come with this view

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Hate to be that person, but it's important to read closely because that's not what was said at all.

The poster only brought up Sui when mentioning how some partners are even feistier than Duhamel (like when Wenjing unapologetically said that she was actually the boss of her team, lulz). The "openly critical" comment was made after mentioning Sui and was thus clearly made as a reference to skaters other than her, like Stolbova and James (who have both had infamous moments in which they chastised their partners on camera).

Edited to add: I realize this is an international forum so English may not be everyone's first language, but I hope the clarification made sense.

I think Eric and Megan know they are not the chosen ones like Savchenko and Bruno. I mean I have said alll along Bruno was not the same level but the judges don't seem to care. I like Sui and Han but for some reason they to me resemble other great Chinese team. Same formula and while great not special because they have a very similar look. Wheras the Russians at least have produced teams with more personality (among some generic medal teams like Eltsova and Buskov; Shiskova and Naumov, Seleneve and Markov, Bechke and Petrov, Totmianova and Marin et al Sorry about the name butchering.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

LOL, ooooh, I'm gonna have to keep this receipt for next season. I think you meant, you hope they'll implode this season? :sarcasm:

People said the same thing about D/R repeating their World title, and you know how that turned out. I think it'll be super challenging for them to win Olympic gold, but to say they're not in the running for an Olympic medal (like, even bronze) is pretty short-sighted. But hey, they love proving naysayers and haters wrong, so by all means... nay say away.

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Amen brother, their entire career has shown time and time again how they can prove the nay-sayers wrong.

Go Meagan and Eric Go ! The fire is stronger than ever, they won't implode - stand back, watch them explode !

Nightcrawler said:

Some of the worlds more beloved pair skaters (Alyona Savchenko, Ksenia Stolbova, Vanessa James) are just as athletic, muscular, vocal and don't adhere to the "pretty silent princess skater" stereotype; if anything, they're even more feisty than Meagan (hello Sui Wenjing!) and some have been openly critical about their partners, both on and off the ice. If people don't like Meagan it's not because she's a woman who dares to show her personality and speak her mind (she's hardly the first one or the only currently competing one), it has to do with her skating which honestly needs some refinement.

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I agree with you to a point, but be careful what you mean by 'refinement.' No matter what Meagan does, she may never live up to your or anyone else's idea of 'refinement.' That's been the term used by some to criticize what they feel Gabby Daleman lacks! I don't agree.

IMHO, both Gabby and Meagan will never be able to change their body structure, but they both have beautiful bodies, lovely personalities, grit and spunk! And they have worked to improve their aesthetic weaknesses. And most importantly to maximize every ounce of what God gave them to work with! They each definitely have their own unique athletic grace and beauty. Everyone has shortcomings, but it's what you do with what you have that counts! No one gets anywhere trying to live up to others' ideas of 'refinement.'

Speaking of the snooty idea of 'refinement,' Gretchen Donlan (with her balletic training) is one of the most beautiful pairs ladies who ever graced the ice, but unfortunately her pairs skating career did not continue because she was unable to adequately solve her technical weaknesses. Luba is an exceptional pairs lady with swoon-worthy stretch and artistic abilities, but it's landing those jumps that will either take her and Dylan to the next level, or stall their rise.

As far as D/R's surprising decision, I concede that they did need to do something different, but this move certainly brings a lot of questions to mind. We will get a chance to see how at least some of those questions will be answered. I wish them well.

And I agree with those who are wondering what's up with U.S. pairs generally and with Castelli/Tran specifically. Merv & Marissa have spoken of working now with a jump coach, but what the heck took them so long to figure that out?! I know Merv loves Gauthier/Marcotte (who are supposed to continue working together with their remaining students), but I question how much attention Merv/Marissa have been able to receive with all the other international pairs and Canadian pairs that Gauthier/Marcotte are working with! I agree that John Zimmerman's camp could possibly work well for Marissa & Mervin. Julie Marcotte has given them some interesting choreo, but I'd love to see what John Kerr could do for Merv/Marissa. Something tells me that Merv is stubborn and set in his ways though. A move to Florida would provide him with the time he will need to spend in the U.S. in order to become a citizen.

I don't want too many pairs teams flocking to Zimmerman/Fontana/Barrett/Kerr, but there definitely needs to be more talented U.S. pairs heading there. Maybe some are waiting until after the Olympic season? I agree that Denney/Frazier had bad luck with the injury and losing Ingo Steuer as a result. And right, probably they just need more time with Brubaker/Berton for things to pan out better.

Art&Sport said:

I agree with you to a point, but be careful what you mean by 'refinement.' No matter what Meagan does, she may never live up to your or anyone else's idea of 'refinement.' That's been the term used by some to criticize what they feel Gabby Daleman lacks! I don't agree.

IMHO, both Gabby and Meagan will never be able to change their body structure, but they both have beautiful bodies, lovely personalities, grit and spunk! And they have worked to improve their aesthetic weaknesses. And most importantly to maximize every ounce of what God gave them to work with! They each definitely have their own unique athletic grace and beauty. Everyone has shortcomings, but it's what you do with what you have that counts! No one gets anywhere trying to live up to others' ideas of 'refinement.'

Speaking of the snooty idea of 'refinement,' Gretchen Donlan (with her balletic training) is one of the most beautiful pairs ladies who ever graced the ice, but unfortunately her pairs skating career did not continue because she was unable to adequately solve her technical weaknesses. Luba is an exceptional pairs lady with swoon-worthy stretch and artistic abilities, but it's landing those jumps that will either take her and Dylan to the next level, or stall their rise.

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I'm afraid you've been triggered by a dirty word and saw what you wanted to see. When did I suggest that Meagan or Gabby are hindered by their body structure? I'm sure many skaters would kill to have their physique.

Refinement as I perceive it is working on the things that can be improved and has nothing to do with the skater's frame; extension, pointed toes, shoulder alignment, posture, keeping your head tight to your body and not jerking it during throws, not talking during lifts and choosing a program to highlight your strengths. Stolbova & Klimov got a lot of backlash for skating to "Claire de Lune" because it wasn't them. Likewise, I feel Patricia Kaas was not the right vehicle for Meagan & Eric.

Please don't make it sound like every criticism at Meagan's skating is directed at her being (insert random aspect of her built or personality). She's hardly the first one, as have been specifically stated upthread.

Meagan might not ever have the level of refinement of other female pairs skaters... but IMO no other female pairs skater has her athletic ability (I mean, she does a solo 3Z) and has landed quad/3A throws (up to a 4Z in practice), and the way she saves some of those landings is spectacular. The only who comes close for me is Dan Zhang who could land quad throws and execute a 2A+3T combo when even most singles ladies weren't attempting it.

Nightcrawler said:

And that's really uncalled for. A person should always be free to express themselves as long as it's done in a respectful manner (and I don't recall Meagan ever being disrespectful to anyone).
However, I feel that most of the criticism she gets for her skating is fair; her arm carriage, her posture and the unfortunate choice of programs is something she can work on and improve. She has improved but to me she's still behind the top teams, even more so if D&R skate to "Je ne regrette rien" which does nothing to highlight their strengths.
Let's hope this coach change will bring them to their right direction. J&C have shown some impressive results under John Zimmerman.

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well let's be honest then and start critiquing Savchenko and Bruno - Bruno is getting the benefit of being with a world champion and olympic medallist. Or what about in ice dance no one criticizes Gabby for not matching the skill level Guillaume. There isjust so much hate to D and R that it becomes more that constructive critcism.

Skater Boy said:

well let's be honest then and start critiquing Savchenko and Bruno - Bruno is getting the benefit of being with a world champion and olympic medallist. Or what about in ice dance no one criticizes Gabby for not matching the skill level Guillaume. There isjust so much hate to D and R that it becomes more that constructive critcism.

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True that. Bruno's skating still is quite unrefined, which is magnified next to a seasoned kween like Aliona. But he is much improved, and I love his personality and goofy, fun-loving attitude, which is rather unconventional for most male pairs skaters. Like Meagan, he's just being himself.

Nightcrawler said:

I'm afraid you've been triggered by a dirty word and saw what you wanted to see. When did I suggest that Meagan or Gabby are hindered by their body structure? I'm sure many skaters would kill to have their physique.

Refinement as I perceive it is working on the things that can be improved and has nothing to do with the skater's frame; extension, pointed toes, shoulder alignment, posture, keeping your head tight to your body and not jerking it during throws, not talking during lifts and choosing a program to highlight your strengths. Stolbova & Klimov got a lot of backlash for skating to "Claire de Lune" because it wasn't them. Likewise, I feel Patricia Kaas was not the right vehicle for Meagan & Eric.

Please don't make it sound like every criticism at Meagan's skating is directed at her being (insert random aspect of her built or personality). She's hardly the first one, as have been specifically stated upthread.

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Eh, I was simply responding to your post. I didn't disagree with everything you said. Yes, I latched onto 'refinement,' because it can mean different things to different people, and it ends up becoming a catchphrase to denote stereotypical thinking. That you have expressed what you mean by using that word is fine. It is better to spell out what you mean exactly.

Yes I am sensitive to the word. Even Johnny Weir (who has been stereotyped in the past himself) resorted to saying that Gabby Daleman 'lacks refinement.' So yes, that's a loaded word that needs to be spelled out exactly what the speaker means by using it! I disagree that Gabby lacks 'refinement.' I believe that is a knee-jerk reference to her not having a willowy body type and a balletic style. IMO, Gabby has improved her aesthetic qualities. IOW, she has a better feel for the music and more expressiveness and attention to use of her arms with better stretch, etc. And Gabby can certainly continue to improve her skating in terms of defining her style and picking music and choreo that enhances her skills and her personality.

As far as Meagan, I have seen improvement in her stretch and graceful movement over the ice. Eric and Meagan have worked extremely hard at trying to match each other the best they can, despite having such different body types and height difference. Meagan does not have graceful looking jumps but she gets the job done. I've never had any problem with Meagan talking during and after programs. I don't even notice her talking during programs. I don't mind any skater fist-pumping either. To me it just shows their excitement and engagement with their program and what they are accomplishing. I do understand when others speak of not liking the talking during and after programs. It's a valid critique. I definitely agree that Meagan/Eric's fp music, concept and choreo simply did not work well for them at all. They performed it well their first time out, but it was downhill from there and rather lackluster throughout the rest of the season.

ETA:
Clair de Lune may not have been what we have come to expect of Stolbova/Klimov, but I absolutely love that sp. They executed it beautifully IMHO. And it works precisely because they are going against type, and Ksenia even smiles during it. I feel they stretched themselves with that program, and I found it very appealing. I was sorry for them that they continued to experience technical miscues last season (probably related to lack of training time and overall fitness post-injuries). Certainly Stolbova/Klimov can not be counted out during the Olympic season!