Duhamel, Radford fire coach | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Duhamel, Radford fire coach

bevybean

On the Ice
Joined
May 26, 2017
I've never had any problem with Meagan talking during and after programs. I don't even notice her talking during programs. I don't mind any skater fist-pumping either. To me it just shows their excitement and engagement with their program and what they are accomplishing.

I think the problem isn't the talking, but how noticeable it is. If the skaters are performing a piece well, you aren't likely to notice if they are talking.

As to the earlier comments comparing FS to dance...Dancers do plenty of jibber-jabbering during performances. Some of it depends on the person and the performance, but it does happen. Especially if something goes wrong during the performance as they need to communicate in order to deal with the issue. (I worked as a stage hand for a number of years, so I've seen it.)
 

TerpsichoreFS

Marin Honda's skating skills
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
For those criticizing Bruno about 'unrefined skating' : it is exactly the same as people who say that about Meagan because of her built. Of course someone who's built like a house like Bruno will gave a harder time looking refined that Cong Han. Don't say about others...

At least Massot showed genuine heart and involvement in his performances, both sp and fs, this season without letting technical elements, disappointment or jubilation tarnish the program like Duhamel is prone to do.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
oh please about the talking during the programs

ALL pairs do... they all do it during the SBS spins... and i am sure they give each other small cues at other spots...


at this point, I am no longer wondering what is wrong with Meagan or with Eric... i just wonder what is wrong with people who simply just have decided not to give them a fair chance.

I wonder if any of you are tennis fans... because... yeah... the girls in tennis are very silent ...... :rofl:
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
oh please about the talking during the programs

ALL pairs do... they all do it during the SBS spins... and i am sure they give each other small cues at other spots...

^^^^^^:yes::agree:

Ice Dancers do too. *gasp*:slink:
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Right on CanadianSkaterGuy. Can't wait for the season to start so we have something substantial to tear apart.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
For those criticizing Bruno about 'unrefined skating' : it is exactly the same as people who say that about Meagan because of her built. Of course someone who's built like a house like Bruno will gave a harder time looking refined that Cong Han. Don't say about others...

At least Massot showed genuine heart and involvement in his performances, both sp and fs, this season without letting technical elements, disappointment or jubilation tarnish the program like Duhamel is prone to do.

Lol, did you just advocate not trashing skaters by comparing them to other skaters ("Don't say about others...")... and then proceed to trash Meagan by comparing her to Bruno? :unsure: :laugh:

Not to mention, praise Bruno for "showing genuine heart" and then criticize Meagan's genuine jubilation in the same breath?! :laugh2:
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
For those criticizing Bruno about 'unrefined skating' : it is exactly the same as people who say that about Meagan because of her built. Of course someone who's built like a house like Bruno will gave a harder time looking refined that Cong Han. Don't say about others...

At least Massot showed genuine heart and involvement in his performances, both sp and fs, this season without letting technical elements, disappointment or jubilation tarnish the program like Duhamel is prone to do.

I think the problem is Duhamel and Radford get crucified Bruno and Savchenko don't. Call it fair judging by some and unfair to others S and M did not have to wait and their scores were very generous or high right away - and maybe too generous. Whereas I just rewatched D and R 2017 world perfromances - the judges certainly were not being generous with them at all - far from it. They got crucified. While I do prefer Sui and Han right now the top pairs team while many good are not special - maybe some hope with S and K but they seem a non contender due to injuries. Sui and Han have the"typical" asian pretty princess and prince skating. S and M seem to be riding on her finesse but again no real personality Kind of Sqared 2.0.
 

TerpsichoreFS

Marin Honda's skating skills
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Lol, did you just advocate not trashing skaters by comparing them to other skaters ("Don't say about others...")... and then proceed to trash Meagan by comparing her to Bruno? :unsure: :laugh:

Not to mention, praise Bruno for "showing genuine heart" and then criticize Meagan's genuine jubilation in the same breath?! :laugh2:

I meant that you shouldn't say the unfair criticism about other skaters what you don't want to be said about the skater your defending (here, that their skating is unrefined because if their built). It is perfectly fine to compare skaters.

Skaters who show genuine jubilation in a moment/program that doesn't call for it can bother me, yes, and not just with Duhamel. That's different from being involved emotionally in your program like Bruno. There is such a thing as tone deaf. See my poorly worded sentences and opinion made you laugh. It's a genuine emotion from you. It doesn't mean I have to like it or think it brings anything to the discussion.
 

TerpsichoreFS

Marin Honda's skating skills
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
I think the problem is Duhamel and Radford get crucified Bruno and Savchenko don't. Call it fair judging by some and unfair to others S and M did not have to wait and their scores were very generous or high right away - and maybe too generous. Whereas I just rewatched D and R 2017 world perfromances - the judges certainly were not being generous with them at all - far from it. They got crucified. While I do prefer Sui and Han right now the top pairs team while many good are not special. S and M seem to be riding on her finesse but again no real personality Kind of Sqared 2.0.

You seem to crucify S/M alright. I won't even touch what you said about S/H. But the judges give points in the accordance to the majority opinion of fans, so maybe there is just a quality in s/M that you're not seeing. I know I am. And saying that Massot has no personality is just untrue. I watched 3 competitions this year with them, and he has lots, and doesn't let himself being eaten by Savchenko or their programs. He has more personality than Klimov, imo. (Who I like).
 

NoNameFace

GS given name - Beatrice
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I think Eric and Megan know they are not the chosen ones like Savchenko and Bruno. I mean I have said alll along Bruno was not the same level but the judges don't seem to care. I like Sui and Han but for some reason they to me resemble other great Chinese team. Same formula and while great not special because they have a very similar look. Wheras the Russians at least have produced teams with more personality (among some generic medal teams like Eltsova and Buskov; Shiskova and Naumov, Seleneve and Markov, Bechke and Petrov, Totmianova and Marin et al Sorry about the name butchering.

well...it depends on what you are considering as 'being a chosen one'. I imagine that when Aliona had this desire to continue on competing after Sochi Olympics, she was just plain clever and considerate to pair up with someone who may not be as star quality, awarded and recognized, but solid, willing to develop and not afraid to take that challenge. Because at the end of the day, it was a challenge for both of them, not even counting citizenship issue, taking it more from athletic/competition point of view. I don't think that the fact that Aliona chose Bruno, did a God-worthy load of work with him to make that partnership work in such discipline Pairs are and show a rapid progress as an unit with significant results/scores (not even taking about how much Bruno progressed as a skater, performer and competitor) should make them automatically as 'the chosen ones'. It is really not like they were World/European champions in their first season together and they have still issues like throws landings. If we look at last Worlds, for me it's really not even proper to compare Savchenko/Massot and Duhamel/Radford situation and labelling some as 'chosen ones' while other as 'crucified' ones. The basic factor was Eric's injury, others were for example material, overall execution - judges' may respond to some material presented better, especially if executed well. And aside of all said - I don't really think that 'chosen ones' label really interest or bother Meagan and Eric - they are themselves, with prominent level of signature about their skating, 2-time World Champions, who showed a massive progress if I compare them now to 2012 Worlds; they are going forward with their own pace - regardless of circumstances, opinions and results - and if coaching change is what they need and feel to do, then let's be it. We have not even yet seen the first glimpses of their work with Zimmermann and there is so much negativity and personal projection there, not even connected with the coaching change subject...Honestly to those relentlessly ranting about Meagan's talking during programs, being unapologetic herself with killer physique - do you all think that these are the areas to 'improve' or to get rid of under new coach Zimmermann? Good luck with that, I hope that professionalism of Meagan and Eric will speak for itself for the whole season, regardless of results. The change of coaching is not to 'correct behaviours viewers consider as disrupting in particular skaters', it's not working like that...

about Sui/Han - well, you have your right to opinion, however you made me laugh with 'lack of personality' remark towards them comparing to Russian Pairs. And you have your right to have your own understanding of being 'special' and 'great' of course. Seeing a resemblance to their big precedents like Shen/Zhao or Pang/Tong is in my book only a positive, but Wenjing and Cong are making their own history and brand based on that great tradition of Chinese pairs. Their results makes them great competitors, but for me the way they achieve them, the style they are doing it make them utterly special in current field, especially considering their age and Sui's career threatening injury just a year ago. This alone - combining it with becoming a World Champions after skipping majority of season - should qualify as an exceptional achievement. But, of course different strokes for different folks.

I think the problem is Duhamel and Radford get crucified Bruno and Savchenko don't. Call it fair judging by some and unfair to others S and M did not have to wait and their scores were very generous or high right away - and maybe too generous. Whereas I just rewatched D and R 2017 world perfromances - the judges certainly were not being generous with them at all - far from it. They got crucified. While I do prefer Sui and Han right now the top pairs team while many good are not special - maybe some hope with S and K but they seem a non contender due to injuries. Sui and Han have the"typical" asian pretty princess and prince skating. S and M seem to be riding on her finesse but again no real personality Kind of Sqared 2.0.

again labels and so much of personal projection over Pairs field in general and results...'Getting crucified' by judges is not exactly a term I'd use comparing Savchenko/Massot and Duhamel/Radford at Worlds 2017 especially. Like I said - Eric's injury made a difference and should be considered a differentiating factor in assessing both teams' outings. While Aliona and Bruno were in a fight for gold, Meagan and Eric stepped on ice despite of injury and held themselves proudly as much as they technically were able to do. and I have a big respect for them to do that. It's just a matter of specific perspective taken in regards to each team due to various personal circumstances - when we're filtering all teams though one personal mind-set, there is always something wrong with all Pairs except this one you consider as best or setting the standard. Personally, Tarasova/Morozov's bronze in Helsinki is a gold in my book, just one example.

and to the bolded...well, it's probably easy to put a label onto team you don't really like nor respect and make your 'justification' about it though using those 'someone else's' labels. But I'm not buying it, really. It is individual how we receive each team, how we react and if they evoke something in us, and in Pairs, a very technically restricted discipline, it's fantastic to see when audience is 'attaching' themselves to the team, program presented or emotion transferred by skating. Wenjing and Cong could be for you 'no personality', 'typical asian pretty princess and prince skating' despite the amount of effort and personal engagement presented into everything they do on ice - I'm just glad so many people see in them more than just a 'typical Asian pretty' appearance and so much of personality expressed. Well, if Wenjing Sui has no personality, she should be probably now in her bed, with broken career and without World gold medal...And for 'no personality', 'the chosen ones' Aliona and Bruno - similar as for Chinese, great to see them getting lots of support and appreciation despite those kind of labels put, especially on Bruno who shows for me an incredible courage and identity of some sorts, to go out of his comfort zone, change countries, pair with 5-time World champion and Olympic medallist. He seems to hold quite well on his own, with mostly being himself, similarly to Meagan. They should not apologize for pursuing their dream and path on their own terms, even being picked up and criticized; it's not their responsibility.

Anyway - good luck to Meagan and Eric, with every step they decide to take.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Meagan might not ever have the level of refinement of other female pairs skaters... but IMO no other female pairs skater has her athletic ability (I mean, she does a solo 3Z) and has landed quad/3A throws (up to a 4Z in practice), and the way she saves some of those landings is spectacular. The only who comes close for me is Dan Zhang who could land quad throws and execute a 2A+3T combo when even most singles ladies weren't attempting it.

If she really cared to go the mainstream there are a few simple things she could do. Not saying she should. Wear flowy sleeves and skirts. And since she cut her hair again - get extensions and let it flow. If she continues work on dance and lines she will match Radford better. Not everyone was made to be the pretty princess and romantic couples. Look at Gabby and Guillaume. They have chemistry but no romantic vibe at all. He is like an artist with his stares and dancer build.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
For those criticizing Bruno about 'unrefined skating' : it is exactly the same as people who say that about Meagan because of her built. Of course someone who's built like a house like Bruno will gave a harder time looking refined that Cong Han. Don't say about others...

At least Massot showed genuine heart and involvement in his performances, both sp and fs, this season without letting technical elements, disappointment or jubilation tarnish the program like Duhamel is prone to do.

Well I still think the man can be built like a house and we are trained or accept that they are more there to frame the woman still. The expectation from the woman is that they are the "fragile beautifull flower unwrapping her petals while he is the strong stem. People just are not trained to accept something untraditional. People seem to accept Guillaume more toned but not overly big look rather than Megan's. Yet somehow the French ladies have been genrally accepted for their more athletic gbuilds in the past. Or seen as unique in a good way.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I think the problem is Duhamel and Radford get crucified Bruno and Savchenko don't. Call it fair judging by some and unfair to others S and M did not have to wait and their scores were very generous or high right away - and maybe too generous. Whereas I just rewatched D and R 2017 world perfromances - the judges certainly were not being generous with them at all - far from it. They got crucified. While I do prefer Sui and Han right now the top pairs team while many good are not special - maybe some hope with S and K but they seem a non contender due to injuries. Sui and Han have the"typical" asian pretty princess and prince skating. S and M seem to be riding on her finesse but again no real personality Kind of Sqared 2.0.

When i think of Sui i think of her as anything but a typical asian pretty princess when she skates. Not only does she not skate like a pretty princess with her feisty personality but with her chic short hair she doesn't look or present herself like a princess and has shown more personality then almost all chinese skaters that have come before her who tend to be more reserved. Perfect example of a asian pretty princess would be her teammate Yu who is very reserved and doesn't show much personality unlike Sui.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
If she really cared to go the mainstream there are a few simple things she could do. Not saying she should. Wear flowy sleeves and skirts. And since she cut her hair again - get extensions and let it flow. If she continues work on dance and lines she will match Radford better. Not everyone was made to be the pretty princess and romantic couples. Look at Gabby and Guillaume. They have chemistry but no romantic vibe at all. He is like an artist with his stares and dancer build.

I think in some cases, one partner will be unlikely to match the elegance or artistry/expression of their counterpart. To me, D/R is an anomaly because usually it's the lady who is the "artistic" one and the guy who is more of the "workhorse" of the pair (see: Stolbova/Klimov, Savchenko/Massot, Yu/Zhang). I do appreciate Sui/Han and James/Cipres for complementing each other more, but more than that, I appreciate the diversity of pairs teams and them not all having the same style (or pretty flowy dress / flowing haircut).

Meagan would look super odd in a flowy dress and extensions. And I think they want to win being themselves - hence the lack of warhorses or trying to look like the classic pairs team.

On a related note, when Bourne/Kraatz won their World title I was excited, but kind of upset that they changed their style to suit the judges to win it with a more European style. I mean, they had to - it was either conform and win or don't confirm and lose. I also felt the same about Asada with her Masquerade Waltz in 2010, which was wayyy to heavy for her, and came across as an attempt to put on a persona and pander to the judges' tastes. I do like though, that things have changed and the judges (and skaters!) are opening themselves up to newer styles, which is why we see skaters like P/C winning, and greater diversity in program choices. Of course, half the field will revert in an Olympic year and either go back to previously successful programs (like D/R are planning to) or choose warhorses that they know will appeal to the judges.

Bottom line: D/R have shown they can win being themselves, so (win or lose) hopefully they will put out an Olympic performance that is truly reflective of themselves and on their own terms.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I think in some cases, one partner will be unlikely to match the elegance or artistry/expression of their counterpart. To me, D/R is an anomaly because usually it's the lady who is the "artistic" one and the guy who is more of the "workhorse" of the pair (see: Stolbova/Klimov, Savchenko/Massot, Yu/Zhang). I do appreciate Sui/Han and James/Cipres for complementing each other more, but more than that, I appreciate the diversity of pairs teams and them not all having the same style (or pretty flowy dress / flowing haircut).

Meagan would look super odd in a flowy dress and extensions. And I think they want to win being themselves - hence the lack of warhorses or trying to look like the classic pairs team.

On a related note, when Bourne/Kraatz won their World title I was excited, but kind of upset that they changed their style to suit the judges to win it with a more European style. I mean, they had to - it was either conform and win or don't confirm and lose. I also felt the same about Asada with her Masquerade Waltz in 2010, which was wayyy to heavy for her, and came across as an attempt to put on a persona and pander to the judges' tastes. I do like though, that things have changed and the judges (and skaters!) are opening themselves up to newer styles, which is why we see skaters like P/C winning, and greater diversity in program choices. Of course, half the field will revert in an Olympic year and either go back to previously successful programs (like D/R are planning to) or choose warhorses that they know will appeal to the judges.

Bottom line: D/R have shown they can win being themselves, so (win or lose) hopefully they will put out an Olympic performance that is truly reflective of themselves and on their own terms.

Well Megan has longer hair before and I understand your point. I just really "dislike" or am disappointed with loudmouths for lack of word yelling and screaming almost hatred about this pair and I don't think they are unartistic. SAdly I think it is the case that there are such vocal fans of other teams that slam this pair unfairly. One can argue so many others deserves the same criticism or criticism for other reasons. And sadly, D and R will only win if others make mistakes. Sui and Han and S and M will be held up now. Watch a Russian team also will do well and who knows what they will do with the French pair. Things will be super bad if an American team also beats them. I too hope they get it together and skate cleanly. I do prefer S and K from Russia or Sui and Han (I do not always agree about the Chinese lady being described as feisty beause that is almost all the ladies - and I am a bit bias after what happened I believe in 2006 at the olympics when the Zhangs went big and splatted bigger and somehow they got away with more time for the injury to female Zhang. I say that because it is not really an unfortunate accident. it was them going for a big trick that they probably really weren't ready for but all for the migthy gold.
 

TerpsichoreFS

Marin Honda's skating skills
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Well I still think the man can be built like a house and we are trained or accept that they are more there to frame the woman still. The expectation from the woman is that they are the "fragile beautifull flower unwrapping her petals while he is the strong stem. People just are not trained to accept something untraditional. People seem to accept Guillaume more toned but not overly big look rather than Megan's. Yet somehow the French ladies have been genrally accepted for their more athletic gbuilds in the past. Or seen as unique in a good way.

It is interesting that this mentality seems more prevalent in pairs than ice dance. I think the skating world is actually pretty accepting of untraditional when there's another thing to look for. For example P/C, Meite and even Bonaly showed aspects of skating that were rather unexplored and that's why they're liked.

But overall, I think the public is smart enough to see when you have a real commitment to your theme and understanding of the music. The public will respond to you if you're engaged in your programs and if they suit you. I don't know what goes on in Meagan's head and I won't pretend to know. But from a viewer perspective, programs with this pair seem more like a means to an end than for the others. And since they're usually more suited to him, she's the one who gets the flack.
 

bevybean

On the Ice
Joined
May 26, 2017
I thought D/R's LP for 2016-17 was an attempt to do something more in the "traditional" pairs style and I didn't like it. I especially noticed that Meagan's costume just didn't seem to suit her at all. While I understand a need to push your comfort zone or try a new style, I think this pair has been around long enough to have done that. So, knowing it is their final season, I hope to see them do something that suits them. Sure, they want to go for medals, but why not go out doing something you really enjoy?
 

asp11

Just a dedicated fan - not a skater
On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
It is interesting that this mentality seems more prevalent in pairs than ice dance. I think the skating world is actually pretty accepting of untraditional when there's another thing to look for. For example P/C, Meite and even Bonaly showed aspects of skating that were rather unexplored and that's why they're liked.

But overall, I think the public is smart enough to see when you have a real commitment to your theme and understanding of the music. The public will respond to you if you're engaged in your programs and if they suit you. I don't know what goes on in Meagan's head and I won't pretend to know. But from a viewer perspective, programs with this pair seem more like a means to an end than for the others. And since they're usually more suited to him, she's the one who gets the flack.

I thought D/R's LP for 2016-17 was an attempt to do something more in the "traditional" pairs style and I didn't like it. I especially noticed that Meagan's costume just didn't seem to suit her at all. While I understand a need to push your comfort zone or try a new style, I think this pair has been around long enough to have done that. So, knowing it is their final season, I hope to see them do something that suits them. Sure, they want to go for medals, but why not go out doing something you really enjoy?

They obviously feel they need a change, and they recognized that within themselves. Good for them. (aside: I really didn't care for their long, either. :slink:)
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
i wonder how many of you have seen D/R live. They are fast, powerful, completely in synch and engaged. You don't like their attempt at doing something more traditional? Fine... at least, they tried to push themselves into a softer more lyrical zone and IMHO it's already paying off. Be reassured next year : both of their programs are within their strength as they are bringing back a revamped version of their glorious Muse LP.
 
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