Tchernyshev to apply for Canadian Citizenship | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Tchernyshev to apply for Canadian Citizenship

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Too funny

Joesitz - methinks you are speaking tongue in cheek. You don't really think that ANY skater would throw their investment in skating and/or a partnership away just because another team from the country they represent had made improvment, do you? We can all name skaters who didn't get the gold, but continued to work at it. Guess Rudy should have been running scared... or Todd... or Michelle... even S-L and Victor had to accept less than gold and kept working at it...

LOL, Peter and Naomi quitting because Ben and Tanith were coming up. Big snort. Ben and Tanith would provide reason to Continue, not to quit. A rivalry often results in greater performance...

Peter is a magnificant skater. I'm looking forward to him skating again with another partner. Either eligible or pro. He's still got a contribution to make, got more in him to give to figure skating.

Linny
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
In terms of citizenship: If people think Peter is odd for changing countries, how about all the Russian skaters who change citizenship to skate for Republics and then change back to Russia when they find a better partner. The two ladies I'm thinking of are Navka (Belarus) and Berezhnya(SP? Latvia). I don't think it's that much of a leap for Peter to skate for Canada. Heck, the US were so outraged over S&P at the Olympics and was so proud to say that they won one for North America that you would think that Canada was just another state. Is he really such a traiter for going where the opportunity is? Plus ice dancing really isn't respected in the US in terms of professional opportunities. I think that Peter and Shae Lynn will have more opportunities to skate in Canada, and Canadian citizenship would just be more convenient in terms of taxes etc.
 

CanuckSk8r

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Joesitz said:
Peter is fine with all his citizenships. If he goes pro with whomever that would be ideal. Joe

There are a lot of people, both athletes and non athletes that have multiple citizenships, does this make them the non-loyal? All throughout the summer Olys there was talk of athletes changing citizenships for the sole purpose of the trip to the Olympics. The fact of the matter is people do it, no matter how many people grumble about it.

As for the second sentence..... ideal for whom? Shae and Peter? The fans of other teams? Or skating in general?

My frustration on the whole subject is that everyone thinks they know what's going on. Assumptions about the reasons why don't bother me nearly as much as the personality assumptions that are being made. IMHO unless you know Shae and/or Peter and know their reasons for the partnership straigh from them, no one should be making the personality knocks, however if you did know them you wouldn't say anything.
..... a few that come to mind ..... Shae probably wants to compete to get back at Victor...... Peter hitches his wagon to a star....
I just think these are huge attacks at the integrity of both of these people.

Joe, this is definately not directed right at you, more in general, your post I quoted really just grabbed my attention!! Sorry to pick on you!
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Joesitz said:
Naomi leaving her baby alone to skate. That sort of thing was the way we were Nowadays, Nanis and baby sitters as well Au Peres are quite plentiful and certaintly Naomi's tribal family would see to it that the baby was well taken cared for.
There is a big difference between leaving a baby during the day while mommy is at work, and leaving the baby at home while going on tours, or even leaving for competitions all the time. From reading Gordeeva's book (I know you don't believe in reading that), I did not get a feeling that her arrangement with Daria was just like any working mom's arrangement. I would think coaching would be much easier on the new mom.


diver chick said:
Also it gives the impression that he himself does not value citizenship as anything more than a passport/piece of paper.
Try looking at it from a different angle (though as the bottom line, your assessment is correct). Peter was born in "Leningrad, USSR"; he competes under a red flag with hammer-and-sickle. Then, suddenly, he lives in "St. Petersburg, Russia", and competes under a tri-color flag. I'd say that a pride in one's citizenship is something one gets from one's earliest years; I think anyone would admit it would be kind of difficult for the Russians of our generation. It is not wonder that that generation is more cynical than most about such things as "citizenship", "national pride" etc.

diver chick said:
Effort should be made to learn the language if you don't already speak it, time should be taken to learn about the country, the history, customs, ways of life etc and it should be the same for *everyone* who applies.
Once again, being a part of a country is different for everybody. For instance, my mother has always had 0 interest in politics; she, as an American citizen, would be hard pressed to describe the three branches of our governement (she can do it, but it's just rote memorization). However, she knows more about American literature than probably 95% of natural-born Americans. For her, knowing a country's art and culture is way more important than all that stuff they ask you about on the citizenship exam. Personally, I started considering myself a "Bostonian" much earlier than an "American". In fact, I remember clearly the moment I realized I was fully and trully an American. It was during a Clinton administration, and I disagreed vehemently with certain actions the US took on international front (don't want to mention which to avoid another discussion); I realized that what I felt most of all was not anger but shame; I then realize that I indeed became an American, because one feels shame for one's own actions, not for someone else's. All I am saying is that it's very personal for each and every individual.

Joesitz said:
As far as the Olympic rules, can you imagine a six man regata where the coxman is a German, and the rowers are Portuguese. If the team wins, which flag is hoisted up? The Olympic rules are there for a purpose.
I disagree. All countries have very different rules on citizenship. Take Frasier & Lukanin, for example. They could represent Azerbaijan immediately, but they would have had to wait a long time had they chosen to represent US (BTW, I would very much doubt Kristin has any feelings about Azerbaijan, or knows much about it). Why not let invidual countries decide who can and who cannot represent them at the games. In your example, the flat hoisted up would be them one that the teams would announce beforehand they represent.

Dual citizenship
The rules regarding official dual citizenship are indeed quite complex. However, most people don't bother. If you simply obtain another citizenship without doing anything about their old one. The truth is that getting rid of the old citizenship can be quite cumbersome. I didn't have to go through that -- my family left USSR in 1988, when we were forced to pay huge money (500 rubles per adult, when my parents each earned 160 rubles per month) to renounce our citizenship; otherwise, we couldn't leave. Right now, my friends who did go through the trouble of renouncing their Russian citizenship had to go to Washington, pay a fairly large amount of money (I think around $2000), go through red tape that took days, etc. Most just don't bother.
 

dmr65

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
NansXOXOX said:
I never said anyone was bashing or hated Peter, but you might agree that phrases like, "It seems to me like he is shedding citizenships like dirty clothes." and "If Peter T. takes his American citizenship that lightly, then I think he's a dope................. then Peter is stupid to let himself be used in this manner." and "He doesn't care about his citizenship. It is only skating he cares for. This is obvious" and "the citizenship means nothing to him, it is only the skating that's important and winning that Olympic medal at any cost." are less than flattering and call into question his motives without any direct input from Peter on the subject.

Russian fans might very well have been disappointed when he gave up his citizenship there to skate for the US, but that's not who is posting here on the subject now. It seems in part, Peter became a US citizen because this is where he found gainful employment and could continue skating as an eligible skater. A lot of other skaters in several different countries have done the same. Peter may be unique in that this may result in a second move, but what he is doing now is no different than what he did when he became a US citizen, or what other skaters have done for much the same reason.

No one but Peter knows how he felt when he became a US citizen and no one but Peter knows how he feels about the prospect of giving up that citizenship.

Nan



Regarding the Russian fans.. I may have mis read or maybe read out of context, but it sounded like the question could be best answered by Russian fans in Russia, and not us here .. :)


As far as others skating back and forth for different countries, I still think one could or should ask those people how it looked to them, or how it felt to see such back and forth.. In sports, I personally find a bit dissapointing to read when skaters/athletes do this.. (if it's not for life's sake) But, I understand it 's their right.. (we all should be given or take the opportunity to move onto better achievements) With Elena Berezhnaya.. I kind of got the understanding, she had no control over that... But, if so, I would still have smirked a bit at it..


Perhaps it could be that I am not compassionate nor a fan of either, is why I'm not seeing fans as being insulting, but just passing opinions around.. Not saying I don't feel, just perhaps sometimes we may take comments a bit more to heart when it's our favorite being spoken of... I certainly have been there. ;)
 
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CanuckSk8r

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
dmr65 said:
Perhaps it could be that I am not compassionate nor a fan of either, is why I'm not seeing fans as being insulting, but just passing opinions around.. Not saying I don't feel, just perhaps sometimes we may take comments a bit more to heart when it's our favorite being spoken of... I certainly have been there. ;)

Very well said! It's seems to be quite apparent in this newly formed team!
 

miffy

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Joesitz said:
Nan - When Annenko divorced Peter did the divorce take place in Russia and if so, did Peter go back to Russia for the legalities? If so, while in Russia it is hard to believe he could not find a partner and had to return to America to find Naomi. Naomi was not a well known name at the time.

I know you asked Nan, but i will just point out that when Peter and Naomi began skating together he was still married to Natalia. L/T spent a season in Lake Placid training with Dubova and Annenko, then when Naomi missed Detroit, she, Peter AND Natalia moved to Detroit. Natalia stayed there, coaching when she and Peter split up, and at that point Peter was already a couple of years into skating with Naomi.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
At the time Peter left Russia, there were lots of terrific Ice Dance teams, and the competition was fierce to train with the top coaches. I don't know how Russian skating fans felt about Peter leaving Russia, but I think if he had been one of the top male Russian ice dancers and had found an appropriate Russian partner, he probably wouldn't have left in the first place.

That's not to say he isn't good, but at the time obviously he wasn't quite good enough.

I have lots of reservations about the pairing with Shae. Neither one of them has competed since March of 2003, and because of ISU rules, they won't be able to compete in ISU events until the 2005-2006 season. Worse, neither one has competed under or has had any experience with the CoP. Normally, it takes years for an ice dance team to truly mesh and skate as one, even when both are experienced skaters. I just don't think there is sufficient time for Shae and Peter to reach that level.

The citizenship issue is one that may come back to haunt Peter. He will certainly be burning bridges with the USFS, and SOI may not be anxious to sign B/T if there is negative publicity about his citizenship hopscotch, even if he retains his US citizenship. It well may be that their pro options will be limited to CSOI, especially if they fail to medal at Turin (and the chances of their making the podium are slim at best).
 

NansXOXOX

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Thanks, miffy. I thought that was the sequence of events, but I wasn't sure and didn't want to give out any bad information.

Nan :)
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
chuckm said:
At the time Peter left Russia, there were lots of terrific Ice Dance teams, and the competition was fierce to train with the top coaches. I don't know how Russian skating fans felt about Peter leaving Russia, but I think if he had been one of the top male Russian ice dancers and had found an appropriate Russian partner, he probably wouldn't have left in the first place.

That's not to say he isn't good, but at the time obviously he wasn't quite good enough.

It might be useful to ask how Russian skating fans felt about Marina Anissina leaving, at about the same time and with tangible junior accomplishments.

Anyway, there were a lot of Russian skaters leaving Russia to skate for other countries, both other former soviet republics and not. Some ended up finding high-level success, others less so or not at all, depending on various combinations of luck and talent.
 

euterpe

Medalist
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Marina skated with Sergei Sakhnovsky as a junior, but he left her for another partner, with whom he won the World Junior championship. She then teamed up with Ilia Averbukh, but he wanted to skate with his love, Irina Lobacheva.

There wasn't another male partner available, so she wrote to Gwendal Peizerat and the rest is history. Sergei and Ilia left her in the lurch, but she wound up with the OGM.
 

pennyfromheaven

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Just some things I wanted to respond to that were brought up in the previous posts. Joe I can't answer those questions you brought up however! First of all Naomi, Peter and Natalia Annenko did move from Lake Placid to Detroit together. It is my understanding from those who know that while in Detroit Peter left Natalia for......Naomi. I am not sure exactly who divorced who on paper but it was reportedly Peter who ended the marriage. Not trying to be nasty or gossipy just wanting the truth to be known. Sometimes people put athletes up on pedestals however we must remember that they are all only human and sometimes not the gods and/or goddesses that fans make them out to be. Peter has his good points and not so good points I believe, just like everyone else. Also I do not believe that Peter was planning to split with Naomi after this year's Nationals because he 'knew Tanith and Ben were the better team'. I believe and have heard that they were planning to train very hard to make a good showing in 2005 until the pregnancy happened. Also as far as having a child and competitive skating go; Tatiana Navka is a good example of a mother with a young child who manages both quite well. Having a baby should not necessarily signal the end of one's amateur skating career. And I really admire the Irish lady's views on citizenship; ideally I feel that is how it should be, an identity. As far as Peter and Shae-Lynn skating as pros go as I said before, I wouldn't have a problem with that, it would be an interesting match. But amateur, no I don't think so, I don't think it's right. I have a problem with those who want an Olympic medal AT ANY COST!
 

Lynn226

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
euterpe said:
There wasn't another male partner available, so she wrote to Gwendal Peizerat and the rest is history. Sergei and Ilia left her in the lurch, but she wound up with the OGM.

Didn't Marina also write to Victor Kraatz?
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
:) I find this thread fascinating. I've learned a lot about the USSR and Russia and the exodus of so many skaters. It's refreshing to get away from Sasha's flexibility and Michelle's aging. :laugh:

As I've said many times by now. I am not against Peter taking on another citizenship. I understand how he feels about getting an Oly medal. I just added that it means more than his citizenship. JMO. In that respect I questioned, because I do not know Peter, will he be happy as a Canadian citizen after the Olympics. Maybe Peter can not answer that question right now.

I am against Peter getting Canadian citizenship bypassing the normal procedures. Figure Skating is not the most important thing in the world, and Canada can stand on it's own native born skaters to bring home the medals. They've proven that many times.

No one really knows what Naomi feels. Suddenly posters are saying that she won't leave her baby for skating. Do they really think that is true without her saying something about it?

And yes, I believe Naomi is the better skater of the two. I have my opinions as do other people. Everyone is entitled to his opinion of someone's skating. It has nothing to do with judges scores. My problem with most posters and their loves, is that they are basically ethnic based, provided, of course, that the skaters are top tier. JMO.

Shae Lin, in my opinion is a very special great skater and Peter is fine if not great. They should make a good team in show biz, but as competitives, that remains to be seen. Let's see.

Joe
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Joesitz said:
I am against Peter getting Canadian citizenship bypassing the normal procedures. Figure Skating is not the most important thing in the world, and Canada can stand on it's own native born skaters to bring home the medals. They've proven that many times.
My view on that is the same as on Tanith's American citizenship -- I think it's OK to make the process as fast as possible without making any explicit exceptions. For example, I have no problem with the INS making up for whatever error they originally made with Tanith's Green Card (which they would NEVER do in an ordinary case), but I would surely have a problem with the President or Congress granting her the US papers.
 

NansXOXOX

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Joesitz said:
No one really knows what Naomi feels. Suddenly posters are saying that she won't leave her baby for skating. Do they really think that is true without her saying something about it?
Joe

Who said that? What I said was, "Would Naomi leave her baby in the care of others while she trains and practices? I don't know Naomi so I can't really answer that, but she has always impressed me as someone who holds family as important to her. I would be a little surprised if she abdicated this responsibility to someone else."

Not the same thing.

I'm not sure I understand this, either:

"My problem with most posters and their loves, is that they are basically ethnic based, provided, of course, that the skaters are top tier."

Can you explain it, please?

Nan
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
To be fair I appreciate that my views are probably a little unaccomadating but they have developed from years of people telling me how proud they are of the fact that they are Irish or of Irish heritage yet have never set foot in the country or know a single thing about it.

Ptichka, I think I may have some across as a bit rigid in my views of what I think people should have to know about the country. I myself have very little interest in politics and I know the basics. I do however have a deep love of the language and the history of the country and that's my strong point. People don't have to know everything about everything and as Nan so rightly said sometimes life just gets in the way - like it did for me. I would have loved to have stayed in Ireland to study but it just wasn't possible. That's life!

As Joe said my main problem is that the rules of citizenship would be bypassed for some (mainly athletes) and not for others and along the way it is your own homegrown athletes that suffer the consequences. How many times I have heard team coaches saying things like well we have a wealth of young talent but none of them have the experience at this level. How exactly do they expect them to gain that experience I wonder?

I agree with your point about USSR to Russia and for this reason I have always viewed the former USSR and the countries that made it up as a slightly different kettle of fish because somewhere along the line most of these people considered themselves Soviet and if Soviet means Russian to some even though they are in Belarus then so be it - you can't take away a persons identity by moving borders. Much the same situation in Northern Ireland where a good number of people consider themselves British, a good number consider themselves Irish and some have developed a new Northern Irish identity over the years.
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
NansXOXOX said:
Who said that? What I said was, "Would Naomi leave her baby in the care of others while she trains and practices? I don't know Naomi so I can't really answer that, but she has always impressed me as someone who holds family as important to her. I would be a little surprised if she abdicated this responsibility to someone else." Not the same thing.

I'm not sure I understand this, either:

"My problem with most posters and their loves, is that they are basically ethnic based, provided, of course, that the skaters are top tier. "Can you explain it, please?Nan

Nan - it seemed to me from the thread that an explanation of Naomi's role in the split was all her doing and there was nothing substantial about it, except what their agent had said. It just seemed to me that whatever Peter wants to do it is ok because it was Naomi who brought about the split. I really do not have much interest in skate dancing. It is clear to me what Peter's goals are and I have no objection to those goals. It is the question of citizenship which I find uncertain, and I will not relinquish my feelings about making exceptions for any person involved in ANY sports.

Yes, I was a bit rash in writing about ethnicity and using the term "most" but I am American and while growing up I was constantly confronted with what my nationality was. Since I was a "mutt", I found it very difficult to say what my hyphenated American ancestry was. Today, it still seems to me that people tend to be proud when someone of the same background is in competition. Nothing wrong with that! It makes sense in the gut feeling. But, that is how I view the world and I do make allowances for it. Sorry, if it miffed you. It was not meant to offend.

Joe
 

lotusland

On the Ice
Joined
May 5, 2004
To answwer your question, Lynn226, "Didn't Marina also write to Victor Kraatz?"

Yes, Marina wrote to Victor Kraatz. According to one interview I watched, she said she wrote to Victor before she contacted Gwendal. Victor apparently, did not respond to her inquiry.
 

terisalyn

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
RE: Marina and Victor - The story I've always heard was that Marina wrote to both Gwendal and Victor. The letter to Victor somehow got lost in transit, the letter to Gwendal got to its destination and they paired up. The Fates at work?

RE: Peter's citizenship - I feel sure that he was happy and proud to receive American citizenship, and sad at the same time to give up citizenship in the country where he was born and where his family still live. At the same time, I seem to remember an interview where he said something to the effect that he felt like a "citizen of the world" since skating takes him to so many different countries, and since the skating community is so international.

As regards changing citizenship to pursue the goal of an Olympic medal, it seems to me that he has worked hard all his life to compete. The fact that he is still competitive at his age is testimony to how hard he works. But time is running out on his competitive career, and no matter how hard he works, he can't slow time! I think Naomi's heart has not been in competing for a while now. If she had truly wanted to compete last year, she would have had the ankle problem taken care of after the COI tour, and gotten back out on the ice to get ready for the GP series. Given the fact that Peter wants to compete as long as he can, is it really fair to expect him to wait for Naomi to have her baby and get back into training? I love Naomi, and I've always thought that her style and balletic lines suit his style perfectly, but she doesn't have his competitve drive.

RE: Joesitz' comment about Naomi's "tribal family" taking care of the baby while she skates, I am finally speechless! She doesn't live on the Rez, you know...
 
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