1998 Ladies World Championships
- Thread starter fredtx121
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Found an old article on the topic:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_tonia-kwiatkowski-elvis-stojko-nicole-bobek
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_tonia-kwiatkowski-elvis-stojko-nicole-bobek
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- Mar 28, 2014
Interesting. I had no idea that back then if 3 skaters were at Worlds, they had to add up to 21 or less to keep 3 spots. I like this better than the rule now where the third skater doesn't factor in at all which is just stupid.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I think this is why the French Fed kept Surya at home for 1997 Worlds, even though she was the national champ. Fortunately, Gusmeroli (3rd) and Hubert (6th) placed well enough to earn three spots at the Olympics. Bonaly could have easily cost them the third spot spot, as she did not have the flip or lutz back consistently after her injury.
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Since we have a thread for it, judging the Ladies' SP at this event is quite an interesting task. I would argue Slutskaya should have been down in 7th and Butyrskaya down in 11th. In the end Slutskaya still would have won the Silver medal with those SP results, but Butyrskaya would have been pushed down to 5th overall.
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- Jul 9, 2014
Going back to 1998 you need to remember that Maria was reigning National and European Champion. She finished just off the podium in Nagano placing 4th. Had she not had the freak fall in her LP, I would have had her finishing in 2nd ahead of Slutskaya. This was also the debut of her short hair....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3nY97PwPY
I bought a protocol book for this event in Minneapolis.
The skating and the judging were pretty much all over the place.
In case anyone is interested in the ladies SP ordinals:
1 Kwan
2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
2 Rechnio
3 2 2 6 2 2 3 2 3
3 Hubert
1 4 6 2 4 3 4 6 13
4 Slutskaya
4 3 5 3 7 6 8 5 6
5 Butyrskaya
6 6 8 5 6 9 6 8 7
6 Liashenko
7 5 3 4 3 8 7 7 8
7 Malinina
9 8 4 9 4 7 2 9 2
8 Kwiatkowski
15 7 9 12 9 4 9 4 5
9 Gusmeroli
8 9 7 8 11 11 10 15 4
10 Szewczenko
5 10 12 7 12 10 11 3 10
11 Vorobieva
14 11 10 11 10 5 4 10 9
12 Lavrenchuk
10 12 13 16 7 12 13 11 14
13 Sokolova
16 13 11 10 13 13 14 12 12
14 Paurova
12 15 17 18 21 13 16 16 16
15 Poth
13 16 19 20 18 14 15 14 21
16 Carter
22 17 15 19 19 16 12 17 15
17 Kulovana
11 14 14 21 15 22 25 19 17
18 Leray
21 18 16 22 16 17 20 21 11
19 Derochie
23 19 21 15 14 15 22 13 22
20 Sebestyen
17 20 20 24 17 19 19 22 18
21 Fontana
19 22 23 17 20 21 18 18 23
22 Arakawa
20 24 22 18 24 20 17 23 20
23 Kopac
18 21 18 14 22 23 21 24 19
24 Ruh
24 23 24 23 23 24 23 20 24
25 Drei
25 25 25 25 25 25 24 25 25
26
28 26 28 26 26 26 27 30 26
Lundstrom
27 23 26 27 27 30 28 27 28
Andrade
26 27 30 30 28 27 26 29 29
Choi
29 29 27 29 29 29 29 26 27
Du
30 30 29 28 30 23 30 28 30
The skating and the judging were pretty much all over the place.
In case anyone is interested in the ladies SP ordinals:
1 Kwan
2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
2 Rechnio
3 2 2 6 2 2 3 2 3
3 Hubert
1 4 6 2 4 3 4 6 13
4 Slutskaya
4 3 5 3 7 6 8 5 6
5 Butyrskaya
6 6 8 5 6 9 6 8 7
6 Liashenko
7 5 3 4 3 8 7 7 8
7 Malinina
9 8 4 9 4 7 2 9 2
8 Kwiatkowski
15 7 9 12 9 4 9 4 5
9 Gusmeroli
8 9 7 8 11 11 10 15 4
10 Szewczenko
5 10 12 7 12 10 11 3 10
11 Vorobieva
14 11 10 11 10 5 4 10 9
12 Lavrenchuk
10 12 13 16 7 12 13 11 14
13 Sokolova
16 13 11 10 13 13 14 12 12
14 Paurova
12 15 17 18 21 13 16 16 16
15 Poth
13 16 19 20 18 14 15 14 21
16 Carter
22 17 15 19 19 16 12 17 15
17 Kulovana
11 14 14 21 15 22 25 19 17
18 Leray
21 18 16 22 16 17 20 21 11
19 Derochie
23 19 21 15 14 15 22 13 22
20 Sebestyen
17 20 20 24 17 19 19 22 18
21 Fontana
19 22 23 17 20 21 18 18 23
22 Arakawa
20 24 22 18 24 20 17 23 20
23 Kopac
18 21 18 14 22 23 21 24 19
24 Ruh
24 23 24 23 23 24 23 20 24
25 Drei
25 25 25 25 25 25 24 25 25
26
28 26 28 26 26 26 27 30 26
Lundstrom
27 23 26 27 27 30 28 27 28
Andrade
26 27 30 30 28 27 26 29 29
Choi
29 29 27 29 29 29 29 26 27
Du
30 30 29 28 30 23 30 28 30
And the exit of the combination spin, with the forward outside loop. It's not a feature or a GOE bullet in the current rules, but at least it should be worth something in Transitions.
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- Jul 26, 2003
I think Rechnio was the only skater other than Tara Lipinski who took one ordinal away from Kwan for that short program that whole season. The Japanese judge put Tara ahead of Michelle (5.8/5.8 v. 5.7/5.9) at Skate America and the French judge put Tara ahead of Michelle at the Olympics (5.7/5.9 v. 5.6/5.9). At Worlds, Hubert took the Hungarian judge who gave her a 5.7/5.7 while giving Kwan a 5.5/5.9. Hubert was the only skater other than Kwan to beat Lipinski at a competition all season as well. Despite her 20th place in Nagano and just missing out on the medals at Worlds, she had a really good season for her.
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Thanks for posting those ordinals gkelly, shows how much of a juggling act was going on with regards to separating all of the different qualities and mistakes from the ladies in this event. I would have put them as:
1. Kwan
2. Rechnio
3. Hubert
4. Gusmeroli
5. Liashenko
6. Malinina
7. Slutskaya
8. Vorobieva
9. Kwiatkowski
10. Szewczenko
11. Sokolova (watched this again and it honestly even should have gone above Butyrskaya since the technical mark is the tiebreaker in the SP)
12. Butyrskaya
13. Lavrenchuk
I see you've entirely avoided talking about her actual Short Program here LOL! She totally missed the jump combo and both of her other jumps were shaky. There's really no way to hold her up after that. The new hair styling was a success though, much better look than the slicked back ponytail she had.
The replay on her Lutz is really funny/scary, she tries to go on such a deep outside edge that she goes off the blade entirely and it's just the boot on the ice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsuDuiyNm08&t=4m14s
1. Kwan
2. Rechnio
3. Hubert
4. Gusmeroli
5. Liashenko
6. Malinina
7. Slutskaya
8. Vorobieva
9. Kwiatkowski
10. Szewczenko
11. Sokolova (watched this again and it honestly even should have gone above Butyrskaya since the technical mark is the tiebreaker in the SP)
12. Butyrskaya
13. Lavrenchuk
I see you've entirely avoided talking about her actual Short Program here LOL! She totally missed the jump combo and both of her other jumps were shaky. There's really no way to hold her up after that. The new hair styling was a success though, much better look than the slicked back ponytail she had.
The replay on her Lutz is really funny/scary, she tries to go on such a deep outside edge that she goes off the blade entirely and it's just the boot on the ice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsuDuiyNm08&t=4m14s
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Would I be wrong to assume the US Fed lobbied to change this rule
I think they did. And also Russia: Alexei Urmanov won the SP at 1997 Worlds and then withdrew, so his "placement" added 18(?) points to the Russian men's total combined with 3 + 5 for Yagudin and Kulik, and thus there were only 2 spots available for Russian men at 1998 Olympics and Worlds.
IIRC after 1998 there were three changes: Withdrawals don't count toward the total, only the top 2 placements count for a 3-entry team, and some of the point totals became more lenient.
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- Jul 26, 2003
When did the ISU adopt the one-by-one system replacing the majority system? If I recall correctly, the 1997 Euros Mens event helped inspire that change with ordinals being all over the place resulting in lots of flip-flops after a competitor finished.
Wow, that is a crazy set of ordinals. A 1 and a 13 for Hubert. I've never seen that big of a spread for 1st place ordinals. Other huge differences, and these are only a few: 4th and 15th for Gusmeroli and Kwiatkowski, 11 and 25 for Kulovana. Has there been any scoring this crazy (in placement differences) since? As bad as I thought the Olympic scoring was, rankings weren't anywhere near this bad for judge's PC scores.
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