CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

karne · Nov 7, 2017

Mango said:
This is a general comment about Canadian commentary.

I think people who are reacting to Canadian commentators this season don't generally listen to them. Like if you have been listening to Tracy, Kurt, Carol, and David for the past few seasons you'd know they aren't doing anything new or different.

I disagree. There have been plenty of times where I have actively sought CBC's commentary in the past because I found it positive and level-headed. The only criticism that I've had in the past is that they have a tendency to make everything about Canadian skaters (I remember them yapping about Chan all the way through Joshua's silver-winning FS at Junior Worlds). But this actively nasty stuff? It is unusual. And it does seem targeted.

AnalyticalMind said:
1) Criticism about a young skater's programs (central to figure skating and therefore acceptable) is not the same as criticism about a young skater's looks (irrelevant to skating, mean-spirited, and therefore not acceptable). What, is nobody allowed to have an opinion about a skater's skating until s/he's 18?

2) If this (starting a thread about the most minute criticism about your favorite) isn't bickering, I don't know what is. Mods should really be enforcing the newly instated Bickering = Ban rule.

The hypocrisy in this post is incredible.

People didn't start this thread because someone criticised their favourite. They started the thread because people were reacting, appropriately, to some particularly bitter and really rather nasty commentary by the CBC commentators.

But isn't it funny how apparently no-one can criticise the Canadian commentators...?

GGFan · Nov 7, 2017

Not gonna rehash but what is really going on here is "someone said something about my favorite I did not like." Then feel free to disagree. Still not seeing the unprofessionalism. There is no code of conduct for TV commentators that puts their comments over the line. There is nothing that says that commentators have to be "classy" or not state unpopular opinions.

We may prefer commentators who call it down the middle and that's why we have TV sets that allow us to change the channel. "She's 15," "it was a lie" (he said there is not much going on as far as jumping is concerned--that's true), and "it was anti-Russian" are all arguments trying to make a case for unprofessionalism and take the high ground when there isn't one. You just didn't care for what they said and it's completely fine to just say that. There are lots of things commentators say that I do not agree with either.

Kittosuni · Nov 7, 2017

GGFan said:
Not gonna rehash but what is really going on here is "someone said something about my favorite I did not like." Then feel free to disagree. Still not seeing the unprofessionalism. There is no code of conduct for TV commentators that puts their comments over the line. There is nothing that says that commentators have to be "classy" or not state unpopular opinions.
.

When I have to explain to my 2 cousins and aunt(plus her 2 dogs) who were watching with me(casual fans) taking on face value what the commentators saying that Zagitova is doing nothing in the first half but was confused because they can see her skating intricately and spinning is a BIG PROBLEM.

They pretty much implied its not worth watching because there a no jumps is insulting not only to Zagitova but to all skaters who tried to do their best on their spins, StSq and SS.

I had to explain to them that figure skating is NOT just about jumps and that Zagitova was doing non-jumping elements, which are equally important as the jump elements.

Because they are casual fans, they are taking on face value the false information being fed to them by the Canadian commentators and dangerously becoming a fact. THAT IS MY ISSUE.

If you dont see commentators making false statements as grossly wrong and unprofessional then that's on you. But this doesnt make it OK.

Mango · Nov 7, 2017

Kittosuni said:
I think the criticism to the commentators is when they said "nothing is happening in the beginning of the program because she is not doing any jumps" which is a COMPLETE FALSE.

They make it sound like its all about the jumps when in fact there are 5 NON-JUMPING ELEMENTS and Alina did 3 non-jumping elements in the beginning where her spin and STSQ was given level 4 and both elements awarded the highest GOE in the competiton. Her ChSq1 was awarded 1.50, second highest to Higuchi.

This might not look problematic to us who has some knowledge but its a big problem for casual fans who rely on the commentators for information.

I really don't care if they criticize a skater but giving false information is wrong and should be called out

Most casual fans would be able to see that indeed she is doing something but that something isn't jumping. If they need to spell it out that 'hey look, she's not standing still' then that person isn't just a casual fan, they're completely clueless.

Casual fans would also be aware from having watched some skating in the past with a commentator like Tracy Wilson that there are multiple elements in skating and that there are things apart from jumps.

Oh yeah, if someone wants to get mad at commentators who speak through a program one ought to be upset with Tracy because she is a serious offender.

But then again, not everyone is Ted Barton.

To add to the list of people who are not singing the praises of Alina and people we should thus be upset at we must include The Japan Times: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/07/figure-skating/higuchi-robbed-victory-cup-china/

Mango · Nov 7, 2017

karne said:
I disagree. There have been plenty of times where I have actively sought CBC's commentary in the past because I found it positive and level-headed. The only criticism that I've had in the past is that they have a tendency to make everything about Canadian skaters (I remember them yapping about Chan all the way through Joshua's silver-winning FS at Junior Worlds). But this actively nasty stuff? It is unusual. And it does seem targeted.

:confused2:

It always depends on who's skating and who's commenting. Carol's called out bad judging for specific elements before. David's usually pretty tough. I remember when Max won Skate America he was pretty clear for him Shoma was the star of the event. They have to relate as much as they can to Canadian skating because that's what they're paid for primarily.

Kittosuni · Nov 7, 2017

Mango said:
Most casual fans would be able to see that indeed she is doing something but that something isn't jumping. If they need to spell it out that 'hey look, she's not standing still' then that person isn't just a casual fan, they're completely clueless.

Casual fans would also be aware from having watched some skating in the past with a commentator like Tracy Wilson that there are multiple elements in skating and that there are things apart from jumps.

Oh yeah, if someone wants to get mad at commentators who speak through a program one ought to be upset with Tracy because she is a serious offender.

But then again, not everyone is Ted Barton.

To add to the list of people who are not singing the praises of Alina and people we should thus be upset at we must include The Japan Times: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/07/figure-skating/higuchi-robbed-victory-cup-china/

I'll just repost this as my response to you

"When I have to explain to my 2 cousins and aunt(plus her 2 dogs) who were watching with me(casual fans) taking on face value what the commentators saying that Zagitova is doing nothing in the first half but was confused because they can see her skating intricately and spinning is a BIG PROBLEM.

They pretty much implied its not worth watching because there a no jumps is insulting not only to Zagitova but to all skaters who tried to do their best on their spins, StSq and SS.

I had to explain to them that figure skating is NOT just about jumps and that Zagitova was doing non-jumping elements, which are equally important as the jump elements.

Because they are casual fans, they are taking on face value the false information being fed to them by the Canadian commentators and dangerously becoming a fact. THAT IS MY ISSUE.

If you dont see commentators making false statements as grossly wrong and unprofessional then that's on you. But this doesnt make it OK."

moriel · Nov 7, 2017

My thoughts on this:

1. Take Ted as a golden standard for commentator. Compare him and those guys.
2. Constructive criticism is fine. Suggesting people should take a break during the first part of the skate, use of irony and sarcasm is not professional. I´m sure they could have found a better way to formulate their thoughts on backloading. Also, all the "2A was worth the wait" and so on parts just sound like sarcasm and irony after their first comments, not as a honest praise.
3. Talking nonstop during the skate is unprofessional.
4. If, as people say, those commentators comment like this all time, that is just extra unprofessional.
5. If anything, I find TATs commenting unprofessional too, as she also makes inappropriate comments and is clearly biased.

Again, if you dont see whats wrong with those guys, check Ted commenting on JGP. He only does constructive and objectiv criticism, always in a nice and polite way, and equally about all skaters regardless their nationality or performance.

Mango · Nov 7, 2017

Kittosuni said:
I'll just repost this as my response to you

"When I have to explain to my 2 cousins and aunt(plus her 2 dogs) who were watching with me(casual fans) taking on face value what the commentators saying that Zagitova is doing nothing in the first half but was confused because they can see her skating intricately and spinning is a BIG PROBLEM.

They pretty much implied its not worth watching because there a no jumps is insulting not only to Zagitova but to all skaters who tried to do their best on their spins, StSq and SS.

I had to explain to them that figure skating is NOT just about jumps and that Zagitova was doing non-jumping elements, which are equally important as the jump elements.

Because they are casual fans, they are taking on face value the false information being fed to them by the Canadian commentators and dangerously becoming a fact. THAT IS MY ISSUE.

If you dont see commentators making false statements as grossly wrong and unprofessional then that's on you. But this doesnt make it OK."

Hm...Then I guess the issue is watching CBC. Perhaps it's better to watch other feeds that don't involve such sarcasm or jokes? The standard you want to see for commentary isn't being met by CBC. This is their style, and it's unprofessional for you and confusing for those watching with you. That's the solution I would propose.

Unfortunately jumps are the biggest thing for many in figure skating so non-jump elements aren't given the same importance by quite a few people. Some say even the judges think this way. This is also the reason that there is a sentiment that ice dance should not be an Olympic sport. I am not surprised to see commentators reflect some of that sentiment.

icybear · Nov 7, 2017

I think they're irritated that there's another skater who could knock Osmond off a spot on the Olympic podium

Tolstoj · Nov 7, 2017

Considering they didn't have the commentary for the Ice Dance event in China (just announcing the skaters and nothing else), it's possible that ISU is looking at what they are doing and what they are saying.

Because at the Rostelecom Cup they clearly attacked the event, the judges and the skaters, and they did it the same here with Alina when they say that judges don't know the rules.

So i don't know for how long they can go with this arrogant commentary.

If you are not happy with what they are doing or if you think it's hurting the skater or someone else, let them know on social media.

OS · Nov 7, 2017

Perhaps David is simply being too crude for some. Learn from Brits,

"You have 2 minutes ... time to put the kettle on and stretch your legs."

Better?

sinnerspinner · Nov 7, 2017

I don't like his commentary. I think it's inappropriate to suggest to viewers "take a bathroom break." If he were going to talk, talk about her technique. Yes, her programs are backloaded. If she can pull it off, more power to her.

Kittosuni · Nov 7, 2017

Mango said:
Hm...Then I guess the issue is watching CBC. Perhaps it's better to watch other feeds that don't involve such sarcasm or jokes? The standard you want to see for commentary isn't being met by CBC. This is their style, and it's unprofessional for you and confusing for those watching with you. That's the solution I would propose.

Unfortunately jumps are the biggest thing for many in figure skating so non-jump elements aren't given the same importance by quite a few people. Some say even the judges think this way. This is also the reason that there is a sentiment that ice dance should not be an Olympic sport. I am not surprised to see commentators reflect some of that sentiment.

I definitely can watch other feeds and the only reason I watched CBC is because I was in Montreal, visiting them.

Again, this is not about their sarcasm or jokes but its about them uttering false statement. If indeed it was a joke or sarcasm, I guess they need to be better on it because their fellow Canadians didnt get it either. They just made them more confused

I have to agree with you that jumps are still considered the highlight to many. In fact they were so amazed when Zagitova was landing her jumps on the beat of music. Her tutu was well received too even though i hate it.

Bluediamonds09 · Nov 7, 2017

Surely, out of all those judges, not one thought that she looked a bit rushed, a bit hunched? It’s like all the judges share the same mind. Where is her protocol for the long program?

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 7, 2017

Mango said:
To add to the list of people who are not singing the praises of Alina and people we should thus be upset at we must include The Japan Times: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/07/figure-skating/higuchi-robbed-victory-cup-china/

I was completely unimpressed by this type of commentary for several reasons I’ve already stated in the other thread but if you are suggesting that CBC commentary is in line with Jack Gallagher then that is just raising things to a new level. I think they deserve better than that

Bottom line....the type of commentary we heard in my opinion is very dismissive but this is figure skating. Threads are full of this type of language and it’s probably a good idea he suggested a bathroom break as I’m sure several people listening needed to avoid the true crisis of wetting themselves from excitement upon hearing them go on like this. To each their own right

Commentary of this nature does open the door for criticism. Just ask Johnny and Tara who have inspired several threads of their own. There will always be an audience for this type of thing...one doesn’t need to look too far to find it. Personally...I find it distracting but that is just my take.

OS · Nov 7, 2017

Jack Gallagher

:clap:

People are so focussed on Alina vs Wakaba, but I feel Mai should be more upset. The system has completely failed her, hate this skating early and you won't get what you deserve. ISU should do something about it asap. Otherwise it is just gives rival federation judges excuses to take out the competition for skating early. She was under marked in both programs, not just FS. It is time to randomnise the skatering orders to prevent these sort of funny going ons.

People will comment, people can criticise them. No different than anybody here, freedom of speech, freedom of press, media is here to stay. Variety is good.

Mango · Nov 7, 2017

Kittosuni said:
I definitely can watch other feeds and the only reason I watched CBC is because I was in Montreal, visiting them.

Again, this is not about their sarcasm or jokes but its about them uttering false statement. If indeed it was a joke or sarcasm, I guess they need to be better on it because their fellow Canadians didnt get it either. They just made them more confused

I have to agree with you that jumps are still considered the highlight to many. In fact they were so amazed when Zagitova was landing her jumps on the beat of music. Her tutu was well received too even though i hate it.

I guess as a casual fan you'd have to watch just 1 other skater to realize what they said was not meant seriously. CBC probably also expects their viewers to know some figure skating. Especially by the 3rd event of the season.

This false statement thing means nothing to them. They say what they think or feel is right - even if they know that's not how the judges thought. Like "this error on this lift should mean no higher than -3 from the judges" and when you see the protocol all but one judge gave it -2 to 0 or something. They're calling out bad judging and/or they really think this how it should be scored.

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 7, 2017

Kittosuni said:
I have to agree with you that jumps are still considered the highlight to many. In fact they were so amazed when Zagitova was landing her jumps on the beat of music. Her tutu was well received too even though i hate it.

Haha....I upset some people last year when during warmups I said watching her move about sent my mind wandering about a cocktail with a little umbrella in it. Then when she did the donut spin my mind again wandered to swishing the little umbrrella around the cocktail. Sometimes it’s better not to think out loud.

Ophelia · Nov 7, 2017

Some people are certainly thin-skinned about their favored skaters. *eyeroll*

God forbid there actually be such things as snark and critical commentary in this world.

Kittosuni · Nov 7, 2017

Bluediamonds09 said:
Surely, out of all those judges, not one thought that she looked a bit rushed, a bit hunched? It’s like all the judges share the same mind. Where is her protocol for the long program?

Judge 1 wasn't feeling it and gave her 7s in SS and TR but then again she gave Radionova higher scores when she had bad posture and frantic skate :laugh:

Judge 2 was lukewarm on her also but judge 5 and 7 likes her giving 9 in PE.

Interesting is that Higuchi got plenty of 9s but still end up having slightly lower PCS because Zagitova's PCS are more on the median side

CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

karne

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GGFan

Kittosuni

Mango

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Mango

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Kittosuni

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Mango

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OS

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