CBC's comments on Alina Zagitova

moriel said:

Oh, we all get that it is a figure of speech.
The fact it is a figure of speech does not make it nice, polite, educated or professional.

Its kinda like (ok, the example is a bit extreme) rape jokes. Yeah they are jokes. All people get they are supposed to be jokes. Still, nobody finds them funny, and not because people dont have a sense of humor.

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I understand that you acknowledge this is not a perfect example, but are you really even trying to draw a false equivalence between a rape joke and a commentator saying that since no jumps are happening in the first 2 minutes it might be a good time for using the bathroom? The commentary was a tad snide, but "bathroom break" typically means do something that you have been meaning to do like grab water/snacks/ go to the bathroom/or grab your phone really quickly because there is a pause in the action.

Anyway, I think this commentary has been sufficiently overanalyzed, and congratulations again to Alina for her first GP win!

johnsmith72 said:

I understand that you acknowledge this is not a perfect example, but are you really even trying to draw a false equivalence between a rape joke and a commentator saying that since no jumps are happening in the first 2 minutes it might be a good time for using the bathroom? The commentary was a tad snide, but "bathroom break" typically means do something that you have been meaning to do like grab water/snacks/ go to the bathroom/or grab your phone really quickly because there is a pause in the action.

Anyway, I think this commentary has been sufficiently overanalyzed, and congratulations again to Alina for her first GP win!

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Please read my comment.

No parallel between the "bathroom break" and rape jokes. Yes parallel between using "figure of speach" excuse for rude and uneducated comments and using the "its just a joke" excuse for rude and uneducated jokes

chuckm said:

Tracy Wilson was doing the commentary (with Ben Agosto on ice dance) on the Olympic Channel (a US TV network). The only complaint I have about Tracy is that she talked nonstop while the skaters were skating, some of it not necessarily relating to the skater on the ice at the moment. It finally got to the point that I shouted "SHUT UP" at the TV.

Ben reserved 90% of his ice dance comments until the KnC and his commentary was never intrusive.

I much preferred Ryan Bradley, who talked a lot less during the skating. (He did the commentary for CoR and SC with Charlie White).

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Yasss Charlie White was awesome! Even though he was sharing his opinion, it was very constructive and back up with proof. No gossips or biases. He should comment more.

topic: I often wonder what Yulia’s general opinion is on Alina, and what Yulia’s feelings are on how this season may turn out for Alina, seeing as there are several similarities in their skating careers. The hype and publicity that goes along with being a 15 year old Russian female figure skating prodigy, first eligible just this season for senior level worlds and Olympic competition, heading into the Olympic Games... I can’t help but wonder if perhaps Yulia is worried for Alina. I do realize that the pressure faced by Yulia in Sochi was one of a kind, and it will never be something Alina will have to face in her skating career, as there won’t be another Russian hosted home country olympics anytime in the near future. Even if, by some improbably bizarre set of circumstances, 2022’s Olympic Games had to be moved from Beijing to Russia (could you even imagine? Perish the thought!), Alina would be 19 then, a seasoned veteran, not the next big hype.

As with many young ladies skaters in the past who had the best skates of their lives on Olympic ice, won the OGM and then “retired”, I worry this could happen to Alina if she shows up in Korea and blows the competition out of the water, I use quotations for the word “retired”, because, unlike Tara and Sarah, I believe Adelina hasn’t officially retired yet. I must also point out that I personally consider a Yulia a member of this very elite club of Ladies OGM winners, although her OGM was won in the team event, which many skating fans controversially consider to be an inferior medal to win, as opposed to a medal from the individual event, and she did continue to compete after the olympics for two seasons. I think it would be a shame if Alina went to the olympics, won it all, and then never regained her form in subsequent seasons (Sarah, Adelina) and cut her career short.

I do truly like Alina and I think she’s a wonderful skater; she has so much talent and amazing stamina for someone only 15 years of age. But there’s no denying that she’s still a proverbial spring chicken in her skating career. I sincerely hope to watch - not simply in terms of her PCS, but in general - her skating skills and artistry mature and improve over the next several seasons (perhaps she will be able to keep going for two more Olympic quads!), as she grows older and gains more and more experience on the senior circuit.

Just as an aside, if Evgenia wins the gold in February, I don’t think I would be as worried. She’s been on the senior circuit for two years now and has accomplished so much. I believe the OGM is the only championship medal she hasn’t already won?

SarahSynchro said:

topic: I often wonder what Yulia’s general opinion is on Alina

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As far as i remember she said that she doesn't know her personaly but likes her very much and is rooting for her.

moriel said:

Please read my comment.

No parallel between the "bathroom break" and rape jokes. Yes parallel between using "figure of speach" excuse for rude and uneducated comments and using the "its just a joke" excuse for rude and uneducated jokes

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This misses the point. The problem with a rape joke isn't that it's rude. It's that we've had a long history and from experience we know there's a rape culture going back centuries where rape was not taken seriously and ignored. Rape is a crime. This ties into sexual harassment, sexism, etc and are beyond the scope of this thread. But there is an actual concrete problem that we worry about with rape so we're very careful. Not for lack of sounding bad or being impolite, etc.

There is no similar issue here. Commentators have been using bathroom break as a figure of speech for any throwaway moment for decades. We have no similar worry that people are being hurt just because something is snark or satire, which have a long history. Commentators can be shady, catty, snarky, etc. We may prefer they are not but that's a preference, not a rule of the profession. There is no suggestion that the comment was made because of her gender, ethnicity, etc. Let's be clear and distinguish the two.

lilahozi said:

God forbid there actually be such things as snark ...

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Actually, I think that we would be better off without snark. The words of the critic should never be regarded as more important than the work that is being criticized. Many literary and art critics, for instance, have made a career out of, "Look at me, look at me, aren't I witty?"

Don't get me wrong. Insightful criticism well articulated is great. But "I want to go to the bathroom" is not insightful or well-articulated.

Its like we can't critize a russian skater without russian figure skaters *cough* dimitri soloviev *cough* and russian ubers attacking us. What Kurt said is true. As much as I love her the underrotataed jumps and backloading deserve to be called out. I remember when maxim trankov was saying even worse things about D/R and people thought it was funny and deserved turn the tables, flip the script and suddenly it goes from being "funny" to "mean" and "deserved" to underserved. So basically the message i got from the people getting mad at CBC's commentators on here and youtube for rightfully calling Alina out is its okay to critize other figure skaters who are non russian even accepted but not okay and hateful and distrcutive if its a russian skater? can ya'll be any more biased and hypocritical? Just because the delivery was crass does not make the comments any less true.

Evgenia and Alina are known to underrotate so it deserves to be called out by CBC as such.

Mathman said:

Actually, I think that we would be better off without snark. The words of the critic should never be regarded as more important than the work that is being criticized. Many literary and art critics, for instance, have made a career out of, "Look at me, look at me, aren't I witty?"

Don't get me wrong. Insightful criticism well articulated is great. But "I want to go to the bathroom" is not insightful or well-articulated.

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Dick Button used similar analogies. Angelina Nikodinov was his favorite skater to leave and go get snacks from the fridge as I recall.

Cherry blossom said:

Evgenia and Alina are known to underrotate so it deserves to be called out by CBC as such.

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Everyone's known to underrotate (so I don't see the point of bringing Evgenia up as she underrotates way less than your average or above-average skater)

Anyway I think the people complaining don't really understand the purpose of a commentator - it's his right to state his opinion, this is just one person's opinion. Nothing more. Didn't change her scores, didn't change the fact she got more points, didn't change the fact her jumping layout was never done before and is unique, didn't change the fact many people hate it, didn't change the fact many people love it.

It did however create one hell of a messy thread on GS

The message I am hearing is that many of the same posters complaining that it is unfair to criticize a 15 year old girl, have no problem criticizing a 21 year old young woman in Kaetlyn. Then remark that Canadians are sooo thin-skinned. Really?

Mango said:

I don't know about his general thoughts about Russia but he's definitely pro-Japanese. After Worlds 2016 he published an article about Satoko's (in his opinion unfairly) low marks. He does get some good interviews with people so it's perhaps best not to ignore him.

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May be he has some good words for Japanese and other skaters but what he wrote about Medvedeva made me furious. I can't even remember what the occassion was - I just remember it was the end of this January, I was flying out of Tokyo and encountered an article written by this Galakher.

SarahSynchro said:

Just as an aside, if Evgenia wins the gold in February, I don’t think I would be as worried. She’s been on the senior circuit for two years now and has accomplished so much. I believe the OGM is the only championship medal she hasn’t already won?

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Nope, I don't have a proof - just guessing that she wants to have a "GP grand slam". She competes this season in the events she has not won so far. Just has 2 more to go. And she won't be able to do them both. In fact CoC will be still missing. Hence, I expect her to go on.

Tonichelle said:

Dick Button used similar analogies. Angelina Nikodinov was his favorite skater to leave and go get snacks from the fridge as I recall.

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And shame on Button. You can say, "She needs to punch up her performance with more pizzazz" without saying, I'd rather be eating a ham sandwich than watching this.

Something tells me that with Osmond facing Zagitova in France no matter how it goes 110 page SC free program discussion record will be broken. Both concerned sides will fuel up heavy weaponry. And the rest of the world (especially Americans) will just

[email protected] said:

Something tells me that with Osmond facing Zagitova in France no matter how it goes 110 page SC free program discussion record will be broken. Both concerned sides will fuel up heavy weaponry. And the rest of the world (especially Americans) will just

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i agree with your first sentence here ... but not the rest... I know many Americans like Russian skaters... some like Canadian skaters... but they won't just
Most of Osmond's "detractors" are American.... so they probably be hoping for a Alina win.

We need a poll ... nationality vs nationality of supported skaters (with support intensity somehow weighed in) I suspects lots of people will be surprised

4everchan said:

Most of Osmond's "detractors" are American.... so they probably be hoping for a Alina win.

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I do not agree. Take one "famous" American poster. At SC he was unhappy that Mihara "wuzrobbed". At CoC he was unhappy because Wakaba "should have won". Whose side he will pick in France - no idea. And the same is true about those who "miss Yuna, Mao..." and who say that Kostner is the only ray of sunshine in this gray and boring world of modern ladies figure skating.

[email protected] said:

I do not agree. Take one "famous" American poster. At SC he was unhappy that Mihara "wuzrobbed". At CoC he was unhappy because Wakaba "should have won". Whose side he will pick in France - no idea. And the same is true about those who "miss Yuna, Mao..." and who say that Kostner is the only ray of sunshine in this gray and boring world of modern ladies figure skating.

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We have famous people on here?

Anyway, as an American, I guess my favorite ladies this season are Evgenia and Wakaba. Ashley is another favorite, but I am very disheartened by her choice to reuse two programs. I preferred Kaetlyn last season - disappointed in the SP repeat and I don't think Black Swan suits her. I want to love Alina but I think her programs do her a disservice. I love Anna, who has broken my heart. I've also got a warm and fuzzy place in my heart for Maria Sotskova. So graceful, elegant, and understated, quite unlike anything anyone else is doing. I guess my other favorite American lady aside from Ashley would be Karen, she's the total package, but she also makes me crazy.

I think in France I am rooting for Maria, really. It's honestly the least exciting ladies lineup, for me personally, though the battle between Alina and Kaetlyn will certainly be amazing to watch.

(#notallAmericans )