Understanding Virtue and Moir | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Understanding Virtue and Moir

Cherry blossom

Match Penalty
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Lol at some pc stans calling vm overscored. Look in the mirror. Pc are overscored waaay more l. See finlandia. last years grand prix sd, cup of china sd and many more. I cant believe how more people dont find it odd that they went from 13th to 1st in the world in one season. Legends like VM dont deserve such petty hatred Being tossed at them. They are the real innovators of ice dance and have the best SDs of all time. Tell ME any pc programs match up to the likes of the artistic and athletic brilliance of vms umbrellas of cherbourg, prince, manhler, pink floyd and carmen? Op you are so despicable for even creating this thread.
 

Purv

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
People really down play how amazing Scott is. P/C really benefited from an easier scoring system. When they have to match lines or perform patterns like the Ravensberger Waltz, it ends up looking bad. There is a reason that they don't get good scores in the SD when they are in the same competitions as V/M.

You dont know that
 

Purv

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
During what I like to call The Lawrence Welk Era (ie pre-Torvil and Dean's Bolero) this was a legitimate concern. But now, it's just churlishness. If P/C has ushered in the era of Modern Dance being acceptable, the Marlie/Voir era really accelerated the athletic side of ID. Think I'm kidding? Go back and look at the years between Bolero and the quad culminating in the Vancouver Olympics. Look at how basic and simple things like lifts are. Step sequences. Twizzles. Really, Marlie/Voir should be credited for elevating the discipline and making the "is ID really a sport?" question essentially rhetorical. Of course it is.

Why only V/m? Why you fans of them always forget about Americans? Canadians without them wouldnt be who are they now. Americans elevated this descipline as well, maybe even more
 

LittleLotte29

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Why only V/m? Why you fans of them always forget about Americans? Canadians without them wouldnt be who are they now. Americans elevated this descipline as well, maybe even more

???
Marlie / Voir = Meryl and Charlie / Virtue and Moir.
 

Rossig

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
They are the real innovators of ice dance and have the best SDs of all time.

While I believe V/M are great skaters and excellent performers and would never dare to depreciate their achievements in ice dance, I never considered them real innovators. As far as I know until this year they haven't even chosen their own music for any program. And during their short break short from competitive skating, I expected they would show some really innovative things, when they didn't have to comply with any rules. But their show program were so disappointing and not innovative at all.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... As far as I know until this year they haven't even chosen their own music for any program. ...

By all accounts, skating to "Funny Face" was Tessa's choice. Going back years before V/M's FD in 2011-2012, she had been pushing to use the music.
 

Rossig

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
By all accounts, skating to "Funny Face" was Tessa's choice. Going back years before V/M's FD in 2011-2012, she had been pushing to use the music.

Thank you. I didn't know that. So it's actually Funny Face and Moulin Rouge they chose themselves.
 

ultravires

Spectator
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
I have watched skating for many many years - I am relatively knowledgeable. While I anticipate surprises during the Olympic season, I have also come to expect some "sure things" - and here is the issue.
I do not get Virtue and Moir. He appears to be perpetually scowling and angry - she does not have lithe -like quality of Gabrielle P. I watched their programs with and without music - I do not see or feel anything spectacular. Looking at their competition - Papadakis and Cizeron have a mystical quality, The Shibs have "like-ability" and Cappellini and Lanotte ooze warmth.

Explain what I am missing?

They will go down as one of the greatest teams in history.
Their quality is undeniable.

The problem is, the things that favored them in their rivalry with D/W: depth of edge, body line, extension, connection, are no longer advantages when compared to P/C today.

Visually, I think Tessa looks better now than in 2014, when she was almost as broad as Scott.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I think comments like this are really careless. Professional sports and figure skating in particular are toxic enough environments that result in way too many athletes developing body image issues and disordered eating. Tessa has spoken on numerous occasions to the impact this has had on her and I think it's really sickening. Tessa is a professional athlete; training and strengthening her body is her full-time job. She is not as slender as Gabi or other ice dancers competing today but that is also a huge advantage to her and Scott. If you watch their lifts, Tessa supports a lot more of her own weight than Gabi does. I'm not trying to shame Gabi either but Guillaume does a lot more of the work in the lifts than Scott has to.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Thank you. I didn't know that. So it's actually Funny Face and Moulin Rouge they chose themselves.

Anecdotally, what I recall regarding the 2009-2010 OD (with the ISU-designated theme of folk dance):

V/M really wanted to represent Canadian folk dance, and searched for music that would work -- but they never found any, and reluctantly left that idea behind.

Going in a new direction, Marina gave each of them stacks of Spanish music to take home and listen to.

Tessa and Scott each came back and said (independently of each other) that her/his top choice was Farrucas.

So ... they did have input into selecting their music.

I'm not saying that the choice of Farrucas was innovative.
I'm saying that V/M did have a say regarding their music.​

Another anecdote was that before knowing what music Marina had in mind for their 2009-10 FD, Tessa and Scott had discussed between themselves how to respond to Marina if they did not want to accept the FD music that she proposed.
They were very prepared to say No to her.
But ... turns out that their preparation was not necessary, b/c when Marina first played Mahler for Tessa and Scott, both partners immediately liked it.
 

lappo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Throwing myself into the thread to add that Tessa wanted to skate to Pride and Prejudice in the last Olympic season but Marina vetoed (sadly, I'm sure I would have loved that program).
As for the OP, it's totally fine not to like skaters, they cannot all speak to our hearts in the same way, as it happens with all other artistic mediums. While a deep analysis of the technical side may help one see and appreciate the technical brilliance of a skater, there is nothing that can make you like his style if you don't like it and this is only human nature.
 

temadd

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
I have watched skating for many many years - I am relatively knowledgeable. While I anticipate surprises during the Olympic season, I have also come to expect some "sure things" - and here is the issue.
I do not get Virtue and Moir. He appears to be perpetually scowling and angry - she does not have lithe -like quality of Gabrielle P. I watched their programs with and without music - I do not see or feel anything spectacular. Looking at their competition - Papadakis and Cizeron have a mystical quality, The Shibs have "like-ability" and Cappellini and Lanotte ooze warmth.

Explain what I am missing?

I'm with you. I do see their incredible skating skills but nothing else about their programs grabs me.
 

ChanClan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
I cant believe there are people on here that think pc are miles ahead of vm.good grief.

not saying that I agree with the people that think pc are better than vm but if someone personally likes pc style more than vm style then they are probably going to think that they are better. Especially with a sport like Ice Dance where (idk about before but definitely now) a lot of it is subjective, the style that appeals to you the most is probably going to be the style you think is better and should win.
 

Scrufflet

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Why only V/m? Why you fans of them always forget about Americans? Canadians without them wouldnt be who are they now. Americans elevated this descipline as well, maybe even more
Not sure if you know this but Bourne and Kraatz, Canadians, were the first North Americans to blast through to a world title. They made it easier for all those excellent American and Canadians who followed. Canadian hosts (Paul Martini in particular) severely criticized judges for holding back Americans Punsalon and Swallow. This is a ridiculous "contest"! Both countries have done a lot.
 

Alex D

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
My heart belongs to the US Americans and Russian dancers, so i am impartial about the Canadian vs. French fight here.

That being said, there is a difference between the top two in the world and the rest. If you sit at the ice rink, very close and you look at both pairs, then it is quite remarkable, how they pull off all these difficulties and yet make it look as it was nothing.

The way they hardly touch each other and yet perform dance holds, lifts and the like, it´s all so light - nobody can match that.

Even though I like the programs by the Russians and for instance both Madi teams more, as i feel they skate on a more entertaining and heart touching level, plus what the Americans do is the future of ice dancing, something that casual fans can actually relate to better.

But still, what VM and PC do, is just technically and from the execution, still lightyears ahead. They match each other perfectly well, look at their hands, the feet, their hip positions and knee´s, just fabolous.
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
I have watched skating for many many years - I am relatively knowledgeable. While I anticipate surprises during the Olympic season, I have also come to expect some "sure things" - and here is the issue.
I do not get Virtue and Moir. He appears to be perpetually scowling and angry - she does not have lithe -like quality of Gabrielle P. I watched their programs with and without music - I do not see or feel anything spectacular. Looking at their competition - Papadakis and Cizeron have a mystical quality, The Shibs have "like-ability" and Cappellini and Lanotte ooze warmth.

Explain what I am missing?

We get it: you prefer the other top teams but them.

You've splayed your opinion and ... what did you accomplish? You're entitled to it but now this is just taking up space on the Internet.

:shrug:
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Throwing myself into the thread to add that Tessa wanted to skate to Pride and Prejudice in the last Olympic season but Marina vetoed (sadly, I'm sure I would have loved that program).

I would have LOVED that. Much preferable to The Seasons.
 

lappo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
I would have LOVED that. Much preferable to The Seasons.

That's why I'm a bit pissed that she gave it this year to the German team (nothing against the German team but I really think that when a skater comes up with an idea for the program the choreographer should go along and not discouraging him; if you pick your music or choose a theme it means that you already feels something for it and can foresee the outcome, even if the program must be shaped by a professional, and you can use it). I agree that the seasons was not Marina's most inspired choice for V/M.
 
Top