Wagner's pain not limited to Olympic years | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Wagner's pain not limited to Olympic years

Status
Not open for further replies.

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Are you serious? What a deflection?

I said it directly. The sentence above "At Sochi, Russia's threats against LGBTQ people were so severe that some athletes/coaches/officials worried that their lives could be in danger if they went there." is a Fake-News story. A reference to Saudi Arabia in this Fake-News context is by no means a deflection, but a sad reality.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
Are you serious? What a deflection?

I said it directly. The sentence above "At Sochi, Russia's threats against LGBTQ people were so severe that some athletes/coaches/officials worried that their lives could be in danger if they went there." is a Fake-News story. A reference to Saudi Arabia in this Fake-News context is by no means a deflection, but a sad reality.

The "sentence above" was written by me. And no, it did NOT refer to Saudi Arabia; it referred to real (not fake) anti-gay laws in RUSSIA and real (not fake) warnings directly from Russian officials (including Putin) that these laws would be enforced against foreigners in Sochi for the Olympics. (Saudi Arabia would be relevant in this Ashley thread if Ashley was quoted about a skating event in Saudi Arabia.) Here's a real (not fake) news story about pre-Olympics concerns in Russia. From FOX:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/...ussia-enforces-its-ban-on-gay-propaganda.html
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
Of course they can. It's a free speech world, isn't it? Even for celebrities.
But I also have my own right to disqualify the person for taking advantage of it.

Yes, you have the "right" to exclude from your fandom any celebrity who says something you don't support, and to reserve your fandom for those who mirror your views. And I have the "right" to react as I did, with: "Seriously?"
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
The "sentence above" was written by me. And no, it did NOT refer to Saudi Arabia; it referred to real (not fake) anti-gay laws in RUSSIA and real (not fake) warnings directly from Russian officials (including Putin) that these laws would be enforced against foreigners in Sochi for the Olympics. (Saudi Arabia would be relevant in this Ashley thread if Ashley was quoted about a skating event in Saudi Arabia.) Here's a real (not fake) news story about pre-Olympics concerns in Russia. From FOX:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/...ussia-enforces-its-ban-on-gay-propaganda.html

I cannot see a confirmation of your sentence in this Fox-Propaganda.

But if you are really interested about gay life in Sochi, visit the website of a popular gay CLUB MAYAK in Sochi.:luv17: Or better: visit the topless men party there (on Wednesdays):yahoo:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I would hope, think that she would not shortchange her training but she has done a lot of video promotions and photo shoots recently

She admitted to biting off more than she could chew during the run up to Sochi, and claims she has wisened up since then. While I have no evidence to the contrary, these are still fairly big distractions happening during a critical portion of the season.

Despite what some people are saying, I do not think she is such a sure bet for the Team. She still will have to earn her way (hopefully) by demonstrating strong competence here at SA as well as at Nationals.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
I cannot see a confirmation of your sentence in this Fox-Propaganda.

From the article: "The Russian government initially banned all protests during the games. Following an international outcry, it set up a designated protest zone far from any of the Olympic venues. Across the rest of the country, however, Russian judges have been implementing the law and handing out fines."

From me: Part of the issue was that Russian officials could choose to interpret "protest" in any way they wanted, such as a multi-colored outfit being interpreted as a "rainbow" symbol of gay pride. And, yes, for an athlete (gay or otherwise) wanting to focus on performing well at the Games, the threat of arrest & jail & eventually a fine could well be a threat to their lives.

Hats off to Ashley for being part of the "international outcry" that helped make people more aware of the situation.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Hats off to Ashley for being part of the "international outcry" that helped make people more aware of the situation.

I wish Ashley put some energy in defense of persecuted gays and women in Muslim countries.
As to Russia, if you go to a country with certain laws then you obey those laws. If you purposely break them then don't be surprised to run into trouble, landing in jail included. And there is no "hats off" for that. I have nothing but contempt for this action. You are supposed to respect the country you are visiting. If you don't then don't go there. For example, I will never go to any Muslim country, or befriend any Muslim person, or welcome any Muslim into my neighborhood, because of the way they treat women and gays.
And if Ashley doesn't like Russian laws then she should not go there. Simple.

If you are an UCLA basketball player and you shoplift in China then you get what you deserved. Ashley should learn from it.
Shoplifting might be perfectly OK in the neighborhoods those basketball players come from. In China it is not. Respect it.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
^^^Moxie....I can only speak for myself but, I never felt discriminated against when I was in Russia. In fact, we were never "Warned" or told about gay discrimination while we were there. I can say this much, Plushy hangs out with one of the most openly gay figure skaters, Johnny Weir and it doesn't seem to have effected his popularity. I loved my time in Russia and I ran around in ripped jeans and spandex. I had relaxed my hair into the "Chocolate Smurf" look I used to have and other than some looks :disapp:...I was never harassed at all. Eman Sandhu works for Plushy and he's openly gay. I think maybe the news media tries to make these things a bigger deal than they actually are. I'd be more afraid to be gay in Alabama than St Petersburg.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
The "sentence above" was written by me. And no, it did NOT refer to Saudi Arabia; it referred to real (not fake) anti-gay laws in RUSSIA and real (not fake) warnings directly from Russian officials (including Putin) that these laws would be enforced against foreigners in Sochi for the Olympics. (Saudi Arabia would be relevant in this Ashley thread if Ashley was quoted about a skating event in Saudi Arabia.) Here's a real (not fake) news story about pre-Olympics concerns in Russia. From FOX:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/...ussia-enforces-its-ban-on-gay-propaganda.html

There are no anti-gay laws in Russia. The only relevant law is against "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors". It was adopted in 2013. Since then there were occassional cases of courts' issued fines about $1000 each. All these cases immediately became public. And, of course, this law has nothing to do with gay athletes safety in Sochi.
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
^^^Moxie....I can only speak for myself but, I never felt discriminated against when I was in Russia. In fact, we were never "Warned" or told about gay discrimination while we were there. I can say this much, Plushy hangs out with one of the most openly gay figure skaters, Johnny Weir and it doesn't seem to have effected his popularity. I loved my time in Russia and I ran around in ripped jeans and spandex. I had relaxed my hair into the "Chocolate Smurf" look I used to have and other than some looks :disapp:...I was never harassed at all. Eman Sandhu works for Plushy and he's openly gay. I think maybe the news media tries to make these things a bigger deal than they actually are. I'd be more afraid to be gay in Alabama than St Petersburg.

What a polite person you are, mrrice. ;) But I call it what it is: intentional nasty propaganda! It is a shame that persons like Ashley can be so easily manipulated.
 

Sjs5572

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
^^^Moxie....I can only speak for myself but, I never felt discriminated against when I was in Russia. In fact, we were never "Warned" or told about gay discrimination while we were there. I can say this much, Plushy hangs out with one of the most openly gay figure skaters, Johnny Weir and it doesn't seem to have effected his popularity. I loved my time in Russia and I ran around in ripped jeans and spandex. I had relaxed my hair into the "Chocolate Smurf" look I used to have and other than some looks :disapp:...I was never harassed at all. Eman Sandhu works for Plushy and he's openly gay. I think maybe the news media tries to make these things a bigger deal than they actually are. I'd be more afraid to be gay in Alabama than St Petersburg.

Didn't you train as a dancer like over twenty years ago, well before Putin started his cynical, distract citizens from the economy, anti-LGBT agenda.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
What a polite person you are, mrrice. ;) But I call it what it is: intentional nasty propaganda! It is a shame that persons like Ashley can be so easily manipulated.

When it comes to Ashley, I think her heart is the right place. She has always stood up not just for gay right's but, for equality itself.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Didn't you train as a dancer like over twenty years ago, well before Putin started his cynical, distract citizens from the economy, anti-LGBT agenda.


YES!! So perhaps things have changed......BTW.....Thanks for making me feel old.....;)
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
YES!! So perhaps things have changed......BTW.....Thanks for making me feel old.....;)

It was worse back then, much worse. Homosexualism was a criminally punished offense until 1993 but even after that it took several years to make it possible to think that it is normal so that gay clubs started to open in Moscow and St.Petersburg.
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
It was worse back then, much worse. Homosexualism was a criminally punished offense until 1993 but even after that it took several years to make it possible to think that it is normal so that gay clubs started to open in Moscow and St.Petersburg.

In the 90's, in the Eltsin era, nobody in the West criticized it. Why? Because Eltsin was a Western puppet. So much to hipocrisy and propaganda.
 

Sjs5572

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
In the 90's, in the Eltsin era, nobody in the West criticized it. Why? Because Eltsin was a Western puppet. So much to hipocrisy and propaganda.

It wasn't criticized because, unlike now, the 90s did not represent a reversal of gay progress....just slow incremental improvement as compared to the Soviet era
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
^^^ Maybe that has something to do with it. I was there in 1994 and I just remember loving it. Maybe it was the "newness" of being so far from home but, I was fascinated by the culture. St Petersburg was a very historical, yet modern city. I was there as visitor so I'm sure the actual residents have very different stories. The people that I spent time with were hard working and serious about their craft. We spent hours learning about each other and I'd go back in a heartbeat. Especially if I could see Plushy or Maria B.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
There are no anti-gay laws in Russia. The only relevant law is against "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations to minors". It was adopted in 2013. Since then there were occassional cases of courts' issued fines about $1000 each. All these cases immediately became public. And, of course, this law has nothing to do with gay athletes safety in Sochi.

The problem, as I stated, was that "propaganda" was not clearly defined and that anything perceived to be pro-gay (such as wearing multi-colored clothes that could be considered rainbow symbols) could have been subject to an athlete being arrested, detain, fined.

Note that the law doesn't make "propaganda of traditional sexual relations to minors" a crime (never mind that ANY sharing of such info with minors in inappropriate, except by parents & authorized professionals). It only targets "non-traditional." As such, it indeed is anti-gay.

As for gay athletes' safety: As you said, there indeed were publicized cases of court cases against those with "non-traditional" orientation. Since the law & the fines started in 2013 (the year leading up to Sochi), how could that NOT be viewed as a threat/warning to those planning to visit Russia?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top