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- Apr 18, 2015
Tuk and Polina T. Polina looks as if she's hanging in the air for a moment. Beautiful technique.
Best Lutz Jumps of 2017
- Thread starter Sam-Skwantch
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- Jan 10, 2017
Outside of Mikhail's 4Lz, which is a beauty, I also really love his 3Lz, like in this combo at CoC.
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- Apr 16, 2006
Yeah, her air position is not as tight as it can be because of the turned take-off. Tukt/Karen/Wakaba are the current ladies that do the closest one to textbook.
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- Dec 29, 2013
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Was it maybe a lack of preceding steps?
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- Dec 29, 2013
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And the slow motion
https://youtu.be/7xiDzWsjdb4?t=4m52s
The second angle on the Lutz jump is perfect! I’d love to see Karen Chen’s from that second angle...looking straight down the line and not from the side.
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- Jul 9, 2014
I'm going to give a shout out to our Central, Ca. Gal, Polina Edmunds.....Her Moonlight Sonata SP:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PwKOHkpAfE
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- Mar 24, 2017
This blog had a detailed analysis of Deniss's 3Lz in 3Lz-3T, from JGP Tallin 2014 to Worlds 2016, showing height, distance, time and angle, and also looking at takeoff technique. It's interesting to compare and see how much it's improved
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- Jan 25, 2013
Chen has a big takeoff but she has a tendency to underrotate and sometimes lacks the flow/control needed for a fully rotated 3T afterwards.
She has had 18/44 successful lutz passes.
In the past I would have said she has one of the best lutzes but there are a ton of others, particularly Tsurkaya.
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She does not have a tendency to underrotate, nor does she lack flow out on the lutz. The best lutzes are the question in the first place, not consistency. Furthermore, the consistency of doing jump combos is separate from a skater's ability on a solo jump.
Barely any lady in the world would have a very consistent 3Lutz+3Toe if they did it with actual PERFECT technique, as Karen does. Yu-Na Kim is literally the only lady in history who has been able to do perfect technique 3Lutz+3Toe with great consistency for many seasons. The rules currently do not differentiate great technique and big jumps nearly enough, the way they are supposed to be done. 3Lutz+3Toe for Ladies is supposed to be difficult and risky, not something anyone is able to do because of cheating the entrances.
I guess we'll just keep repeating the same things though, this has been said many times before and you never get it. Too bad Karen Chen isn't Canadian, suddenly I'd have to type a lot less.
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- Jan 21, 2017
Nathan Chen during the 2017 US International Classic FS, +2.20 GOE. Video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NcZT_aVV9c#t=08m15s
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- May 17, 2017
Look at Nana Araki’s 3lz3T here, the first combo https://youtu.be/r3qWcmQfQ7A
Her Lutz is jaw-dropping. She can be the next Yuna Kim. Look at that toe pick!!!
JSF should wrap her up and prepare some better choreography for her though.
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- Feb 11, 2017
Her coach is Miki Ando's childhood coach (whom she went to during a slump... after 2006, I believe?), so it makes sense that her lutz is to die for.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I don't see what Karen not being Canadian has anything to with it. Osmond has arguably one of the biggest, beautiful lutzes, but because the edge isn't always definitively outside I'm not suggesting she has had one of the best lutzes this season, even if I'm a fan of her.
The tea is at her most recent competition, Skate Canada, Karen had issues with all 3 lutz passes in the SP and the LP. In her three most recent competitions she has had a 3Z< (with a fall in the case of Japan Open, and a stepout at the US Classic), and has also received a 3-3<.
7 out of her last 8 jumping passes involving a lutz have gotten negative GOE. And the 8th one was a 3-3 turned to a 3-2. She hasn't hit a clean 3Z+3T in her past 5 attempts (which isn't a great track record for someone you profess to have PERFECT 3Z+3T technique). I would hardly call her one of the best lutzers these days.
If you believe Karen has perfect lutz technique (not just take off but landing too) then feel free to continue to believe that. You do you, boo.
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- Oct 16, 2017
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Then she would have gotten zero or lower.
I think the judges decided that she kinda sorta lacked preceding steps, but not so much to spoil such a brilliant jump with a negative GOE.
For the SP solo jump, the GOE reductions are -3 if there are "No required preceding steps/movements." (I.e., the maximum allowable GOE would be 0)
The reduction is -1 to -2 for "Break between required steps/movements & jump/only 1 step/movement preceding jump"
Opinions may vary on how much is enough. I thought Tuktamysheva had enough to meet the requirement in that clip, maybe enough qualify for positive bullet point 2 if that had been a freeskate or a SP jump combination, but not for the SP solo jump:
"clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of teh Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element)"
I don't think it was unexpected or creative or difficult, so I wouldn't give bullet point 1 in any case.
The reduction is -1 to -2 for "Break between required steps/movements & jump/only 1 step/movement preceding jump"
Opinions may vary on how much is enough. I thought Tuktamysheva had enough to meet the requirement in that clip, maybe enough qualify for positive bullet point 2 if that had been a freeskate or a SP jump combination, but not for the SP solo jump:
"clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of teh Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element)"
I don't think it was unexpected or creative or difficult, so I wouldn't give bullet point 1 in any case.
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- Apr 16, 2006
I don't see what Karen not being Canadian has anything to with it. Osmond has arguably one of the biggest, beautiful lutzes, but because the edge isn't always definitively outside I'm not suggesting she has had one of the best lutzes this season, even if I'm a fan of her.
The tea is at her most recent competition, Skate Canada, Karen had issues with all 3 lutz passes in the SP and the LP. In her three most recent competitions she has had a 3Z< (with a fall in the case of Japan Open, and a stepout at the US Classic), and has also received a 3-3<.
7 out of her last 8 jumping passes involving a lutz have gotten negative GOE. And the 8th one was a 3-3 turned to a 3-2. She hasn't hit a clean 3Z+3T in her past 5 attempts (which isn't a great track record for someone you profess to have PERFECT 3Z+3T technique). I would hardly call her one of the best lutzers these days.
If you believe Karen has perfect lutz technique (not just take off but landing too) then feel free to continue to believe that. You do you, boo.
I think what BoP was saying is that when her 3Lz-3T is CLEAN, the actual lutz in that combination is perfect. We are talking about the LUTZ, while those negative GOEs which you mention might be from a UR on the toe. And I would analyze any protocols with a grain of salt, after some skaters receive positive GOEs on flutzes and URs....
Here's an example of a lutz with NO pre-rotated takeoff, TIGHT position, great flow out, TEXTBOOK leg position on the entry: https://youtu.be/NixhPhyYW4w?t=1m9s
More?
https://youtu.be/c0QbB2rq9-s?t=1m52s
https://youtu.be/c0QbB2rq9-s?t=4m20s
Just look at that RUNNING EDGE and leg position on the landing... that is also something we don't often see nowadays. When done perfectly, her lutz is Yuna quality.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Karen's lutz when it's been on in the past is one of the best lutzes in the world, yes. But I'm disagreeing with BoP's unsubstantiated assertion that, "The best Lutzes in the world from Ladies these days come from Tuktamysheva and Karen Chen." given that Karen has had technical issues on several of her lutz-related jumping passes this season, whether an intended 3Z+3T combo or solo 3Z. I mean, look at her success rate of her lutz passes at http://skatedb.net/modules/skateDB/index.php?page=player&playerid=1245 and you'll see that she hasn't been successful with them as of late. And as I pointed out, most of her last 8 lutz attempts were not executed ideally, or even averagely.
He was also alluding to perfect technique on the 3Z+3T combo, and to me, if the 3T is consistently being UR, then that is partially stemming from the execution of the 3Z -- even if it's a good one -- and it's odd that she has a strong first 3Z in her combo which is often rotated but has then had issues with the solo 3Z being fully rotated in multiple recent instances. Even if BoP wants to believe that the tech panel is always wrong in their assessment of her 3Z+3T< combos, in 2017 Chen has still had stepout/UR/fall errors on her lutz, whereas other skaters have been much more consistent with their lutz attempts.
He was also alluding to perfect technique on the 3Z+3T combo, and to me, if the 3T is consistently being UR, then that is partially stemming from the execution of the 3Z -- even if it's a good one -- and it's odd that she has a strong first 3Z in her combo which is often rotated but has then had issues with the solo 3Z being fully rotated in multiple recent instances. Even if BoP wants to believe that the tech panel is always wrong in their assessment of her 3Z+3T< combos, in 2017 Chen has still had stepout/UR/fall errors on her lutz, whereas other skaters have been much more consistent with their lutz attempts.
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- Apr 16, 2006
I think it's pedantic to stick to words when all we're saying is that when her lutz is done cleanly it has the best technique. And I think the 2016-2017 season (especially the latter half) still counts as "current" ladies. Just because Karen might have had UR on her lutz combo in her first GP assignment and in a tier 2 event doesn't mean she can't land it clean anymore this season. She still has a LOT of events to go.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I think it's pedantic to stick to words when all we're saying is that when her lutz is done properly it has the best technique. And I think the 2016-2017 season (especially the latter half) still counts as "current" ladies. Just because Karen might have had UR on her lutz combo in her first GP assignment and in a tier 2 event doesn't mean she can't land it clean anymore this season. She still has a LOT of events to go.
I'm not saying that she can't and won't land it cleanly anymore this season. I think she will make changes as necessary. But here is her international track record with lutz jumping passes in 2017:
Skate Canada 2017:
SP: 3Z (stepoout/handdown)
FS: 3Z+2T, 3Z<
Japan Open 2017:
FS: 3Z+3T<, 3Z<(fall)
US Figure Skating Classic 2017:
SP: 3Z+3T<
FS: 3Z+3T<, 3Z< (stepout)
World Team Trophy 2017:
SP: 3Z+2T
FS: 1Z, 3Z<<(fall)
Worlds 2017:
SP: 3Z+3T
FS: 3Z+3T, 3Z<(fall)
Four Continents 2017:
SP: 3Z+2T (foot down)
FS: 3Z (stepout), 3Z<(stepout to 2T*)
Only 2 out of 17 of these lutz jumping passes would be considered successful/as planned. Even counting her 3Z combos where the error was primarily on the second jump, her track record is 8/17.
So to even suggest that she is one of the best lutz jumpers these days (or even this year) is completely unsubstantiated.
