Bush -Kerry Debate 9/30
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I am afraid that the President's lack of experience in Debate is showing. I don't think there is a forum (besides taping Sen. Kerry's mouth shut) where Bush can win. Kerry is a former head of the debate team at Yale (mostly made up of future lawyers) who also was a prosecutor. Kerry THRIVES of debate. It isn't that the President is incompetent, but this is one of the times he may have wished he'd shown up for classes. No slap against the prez, but the school records haven't been manipulated towards either candidate. Guess Yale has tighter security than the Pentagon 
, well then though, they probably have a higher budget 
, well then though, they probably have a higher budget 
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I found myself wondering what Dubya had taken before the debate started. There were a couple of moments when he had 30 seconds to respond and spent ten of them staring into the camera like a deer in the headlights! I won't even get into content - let it suffice to say that I was talking back to the TV frequently.
But what I'm looking forward to is next Tuesday's matchup between Luke and Darth Vader - whoops! I mean Edwards and Cheney.
Rave
But what I'm looking forward to is next Tuesday's matchup between Luke and Darth Vader - whoops! I mean Edwards and Cheney.
Rave
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- Jul 11, 2003
Ravyn Rant said:I found myself wondering what Dubya had taken before the debate started. There were a couple of moments when he had 30 seconds to respond and spent ten of them staring into the camera like a deer in the headlights! But what I'm looking forward to is next Tuesday's matchup between Luke and Darth Vader - whoops! I mean Edwards and Cheney.
Rave
As were the original quotes of this thread. Dubya is not complicated. He is simplistic and those 30 seconds to respond is just a part of this inability to lead. I thought Fahrneheit 9/11 showed it perfectly when the official whispered in his ear that the WTC had been destroyed by tair o ists. He just stared for even more than 30 seconds. It seemed to me that he was thinking of how he was going to get Haliburton into Iraq. Ah yes, weapons of mass destruction will get us into Iraq for Haliburton.
Joe
I tried to watch the debate with an open mind, whcih I will admit is difficult since I already know who I like and who I don't. I viewed this debate kind of like if your favorite skater is in the competition, you still want to see the best skate win no matter what the stakes,...Anyway, I was very impressed with Kerry, and very non-impressed with Dubya. I felt that he had about 3-5 points that he wanted to make and he kept blurbing in them repeatedly, regardless of the question--that is of course when he wasn't staring into the camera and saying uh, or um! I couldn't believe after the debate that the Republicans they interviewed said that Bush was articulate! If that was articulate than I am the Man in the Moon!
Looking forward to all the upcoming debates! Hopefully Kerry impressed the undecided voters.
eliza88
Looking forward to all the upcoming debates! Hopefully Kerry impressed the undecided voters.
eliza88
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- Jul 28, 2003
I also felt that the lack of any spontaneous questions hurt the debate as a whole. For example, when Bush mentioned the international tribunal, I wish Lehrer could turn to Kerry and ask him to explain his position on it (though this is one of the few issues where I agree with the prez :sheesh: ). There should have also been some general questions on relations with the UN. If there is one thing that concerns me about potential Kerry presidency, it's that he may be too friendly with the "international community".
I was also disappointed that Kerry did not rub in the fact that Bush has been much to chummy with a rather dictatorial Putin. Bush should not have gotten away with making it sound like "Vladimir" was just a good chump who needs some American guidance.
Also, Bush played right into Putin's hand by tying the Beslan massacre into the "War on Terror"; Kerry should have responded strongly to this.
I was disappointed that no a single question touched on Israel/ Middle East. I also found it interesting that both candidates managed to mention Israel a few times. It's like the remembered their advisors: "Remember all the Jewish voters out there. Make sure you don't forget to mention Israel!"
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On a lighter note, I was personally watching this on CBS. When they showed both candidates on the split screen, they tried showing them at equal height. It was funny to see them adjust their cameras; at times Bush even looked taller than Kerry!
I was also disappointed that Kerry did not rub in the fact that Bush has been much to chummy with a rather dictatorial Putin. Bush should not have gotten away with making it sound like "Vladimir" was just a good chump who needs some American guidance.
Also, Bush played right into Putin's hand by tying the Beslan massacre into the "War on Terror"; Kerry should have responded strongly to this.I was disappointed that no a single question touched on Israel/ Middle East. I also found it interesting that both candidates managed to mention Israel a few times. It's like the remembered their advisors: "Remember all the Jewish voters out there. Make sure you don't forget to mention Israel!"
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On a lighter note, I was personally watching this on CBS. When they showed both candidates on the split screen, they tried showing them at equal height. It was funny to see them adjust their cameras; at times Bush even looked taller than Kerry!
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- Jul 27, 2003
Ptichka said:On a lighter note, I was personally watching this on CBS. When they showed both candidates on the split screen, they tried showing them at equal height. It was funny to see them adjust their cameras; at times Bush even looked taller than Kerry!
I think trying to hide the difference in height it silly. They are who they are, LOL. What's next just brodadcasting their voices (altered so they will sound the same) so that we aren't swayed by anything about their physical appearances? I find it all rather insulting. :\ :\ :\ Leave it to men to make a big deal out of four inches
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- Aug 4, 2003
sk8m8 said:I am afraid that the President's lack of experience in Debate is showing. I don't think there is a forum (besides taping Sen. Kerry's mouth shut) where Bush can win. Kerry is a former head of the debate team at Yale (mostly made up of future lawyers) who also was a prosecutor. Kerry THRIVES of debate. It isn't that the President is incompetent, but this is one of the times he may have wished he'd shown up for classes. No slap against the prez, but the school records haven't been manipulated towards either candidate. Guess Yale has tighter security than the Pentagon
Bush was also on the debate team at Yale. We don't hear much about it because his team is so busy "lowering expectations".
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- Jul 26, 2003
If Kerry had done badly, I would've flung myself off my balcony, and at the beginning, I was ready to do so. But John pulled himself together after about ten minutes, and then I was so into it! I would've had the debate at a draw if had only gone an hour, but Bush totally fell apart that final half hour, he was angry and frustrated and kept repeating himself. That's when Bush lost the debate, IMO.
As someone who lived overseas for ten years of her life, and knows quite a few of "them foreign folks", you can't be too chummy with them, IMO. We have much to learn from each other.
In regards to North Korea, you don't have to dismantle the coalition to have bilateral talks. I wish Kerry had mentioned that.
Oh, and sadly, I have lost all respect for Rudy Guiliani. How sad has be become in his bid for the 2008 nomination? Rudy, honey, you can attract voters across party lines, but if you continue to spew Bush's party line like this, you are going to alienate those people who would've crossed over for you.
Laura
As someone who lived overseas for ten years of her life, and knows quite a few of "them foreign folks"
, you can't be too chummy with them, IMO. We have much to learn from each other. In regards to North Korea, you don't have to dismantle the coalition to have bilateral talks. I wish Kerry had mentioned that.
Oh, and sadly, I have lost all respect for Rudy Guiliani. How sad has be become in his bid for the 2008 nomination? Rudy, honey, you can attract voters across party lines, but if you continue to spew Bush's party line like this, you are going to alienate those people who would've crossed over for you.
Laura
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- Jul 28, 2003
Princess, let me clarify. I am hardly zenophobic -- I am not from the US, I travel to a couple of countries a year, and I eat French food (and watch their movies). However, there are many things that American can do to appease many others that I would not like to see.
The prime example, of course, is support for Israel. America would be much better viewed in the world if it dropped its support for that country, and I expect the pressure on the next President to mount, yet I certainly hope that does not happen. With regards to International Court -- sure, the world would be very happy with us if we joined -- but it offers way too much possibility of politically-based persecution. Even Kyoto -- while I think we should internally implement very tough environmental standards, I am not sure it is in our interests to join (it might be, but once again we should look at it from the point of view of our inerests, not from what the world wants us to do).
As to my comment about "chumminess" with Putin - I think this goes back to Clinton administration mistakes. Instead of betting on democracy in Russia, Clinton bet on Yeltsin. Take the second coup for example. US supported the Russian president opening fire on the parlamentarians! Bush exacerbated this by establishing a relationship with Putin as opposed to the democracy. We should concentrate on ideas, never on individuals.
I hope this clears it up a bit...
(and watch their movies). However, there are many things that American can do to appease many others that I would not like to see.The prime example, of course, is support for Israel. America would be much better viewed in the world if it dropped its support for that country, and I expect the pressure on the next President to mount, yet I certainly hope that does not happen. With regards to International Court -- sure, the world would be very happy with us if we joined -- but it offers way too much possibility of politically-based persecution. Even Kyoto -- while I think we should internally implement very tough environmental standards, I am not sure it is in our interests to join (it might be, but once again we should look at it from the point of view of our inerests, not from what the world wants us to do).
As to my comment about "chumminess" with Putin - I think this goes back to Clinton administration mistakes. Instead of betting on democracy in Russia, Clinton bet on Yeltsin. Take the second coup for example. US supported the Russian president opening fire on the parlamentarians! Bush exacerbated this by establishing a relationship with Putin as opposed to the democracy. We should concentrate on ideas, never on individuals.
I hope this clears it up a bit...
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If you watched the debate on Cspan2, it was split screen throughout. And if you did, you saw Bush twitching his eyebrows, pursing his mouth, gulping 4 glasses of water, and basically looking like a rude and petulant teenager every time Kerry was talking. If you had a large screen TV this was even more obvious. My younger son, who is an independent, and was considering voting for Bush, called me after the debate and said he was embarrassed that we send this guy to represent us in international negotiations. When you combined what Ken described as 'the doofus with Tourette's behavior' with the fact that Bush kept repeating the same answers over and over, as if, as Howard Fineman said, he 30 minutes of material for a 90 minute debate, Ken said he has decided to vote for Kerry.
If you listened on radio, you missed all of this visual show, and the debate may have appeared closer.
I think Kerry refrained from totally slamming Bush because of the criticism of Gore in the second (or was it the third?) debate in 2000, that he was too aggressive and too hard on George Bush. Because many people find Bush likeable, apparently they are thought to not enjoy watching people call Bush to account for his failures.
I can't tell you whether that is a mistake or not.
If you listened on radio, you missed all of this visual show, and the debate may have appeared closer.
I think Kerry refrained from totally slamming Bush because of the criticism of Gore in the second (or was it the third?) debate in 2000, that he was too aggressive and too hard on George Bush. Because many people find Bush likeable, apparently they are thought to not enjoy watching people call Bush to account for his failures.
I can't tell you whether that is a mistake or not.
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DORISPULASKI said:
I have yet to see one occasion where someone else was talking wherein Bush did NOT look like a rude and petulant teenager; this has been going on for 4 years now....
I will, however, give GWB credit for not doing that thing he does wherein he puts one elbow on the lectern, leans over, then give us his "I'm gonna say something funny now" face, which is composed of pursed lips and head-bobbing. Whenever he does that (which is entirely too often) he looks EXACTLY like Lily Tomlin doing her Ernestine the Telephone Lady "One ringy-dingy.... two ringy-dingy..." routine. At least we were spared that (tho it is actually funny when Lily does it...), at least from what I saw. [Which was admittedly only the last half]
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I don't think that's what we're doing. I don't think Dubya is stupid. What he does is what we described.
Dubya appeals to many people. Just because I don't see the appeal doesn't mean that appeal is not there. Just because Dubya looked like he was auditioning for Dumb and Vladumber in that debate does not mean he will not win the election.
Dubya reminds me of the old engineering saying, "For every difficult, complex problem, there is a simple, easy to understand, wrong solution." Even in that results-oriented world, many people would get behind the guy with the wrong solution because he had conviction, and he was easy to understand.
Unfortunately, that way leads to disaster in engineering.
