WADA rejects appeals from Russia | Page 3 | Golden Skate

WADA rejects appeals from Russia

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Purv

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I thought the sticking point is Russia won’t admit to state sponsored cheating but they do admit to cheating by their testing lab director, who was the original whistleblower.

WADA now has the leaked electronic testing files, which Russia refused to turn over, further confirms their belief of state sponsored doping. Yet Putin now blames the mess a US retaliation and meddling with Russian presidential election. Illogical much.

What’s really troubling to Russian athletes’ participation is they have not been tested or sufficiently tested this year during their preparations for the Olympics, and their top athletes are said to have zero or one test only this year. And now due to the failure of RUSADA to get reinstated, those who got tested will not deem to be reliable and counted. Without continued, early, multiple and random testing history, athletes would be suspected of doping months earlier but stop now. It’s unfair to other clean competitors. I fear chances are not good for Russian athletes get to compete in the Olympics.

Yes I ve aso read somewhere that part of russian athletes have not been tested enough or at all. people here dont believe me and they think i am a liar Do you have any link?
 

Sam-Skwantch

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i think of WADA as a joke, after hackers published leaks about Williams sisters/Simone Biles/etc taking a doping "legally".

That won't get much play here. In America taking these amphetamines are so common place that people are surprised and appalled that anyone question it. Our kids learn sports at a young age on these medications and many believe they couldn't do it otherwise and don't see them as performance enhancers or that there is any conflict of interest.
 

moriel

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if I remember it correctly a british or Paris lab is doing the testing for the Russians since they got suspended. i may be wrong though

Not only that, but British specs are also in russia now working together with Rusada.
 

Kittosuni

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I don't disagree with you however, what you and I don't know is how much tampering and destroying of evidence has happened and is still happening...

In such cases, we have to understand that we, the public, don't know everything that's happened... WADA could be in the situation where they have a lot of evidence adding up but always find that one missing part has been tampered... when you put all these together, your case is not only circumstantial ... but becomes legit.

Again these are all speculations.

They are asking for an entire nation to be banned so its not unrealistic for people to ask irrefutable evidences, but until then what's being done(governing sport bodies dealing with their own athletes) is fair.

Come out with the irrefutable evidences then lets ban Russia.
 

moriel

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That won't get much play here. In America taking these amphetamines are so common place that people are surprised and appalled that anyone question it. Our kids learn sports at a young age on these medications and many believe they couldn't do it otherwise and don't see them as performance enhancers.

That still does not make it right imo =)
Because we can use same excuse for meldonium, except it is not even a sport thing. For instance, my father used to take it, my grandma still takes it. Although grandma is happy, she is all "omg i´m a doper now, i´m going to do all the farm work twice as fast".
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
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That still does not make it right imo =)
Because we can use same excuse for meldonium, except it is not even a sport thing. For instance, my father used to take it, my grandma still takes it. Although grandma is happy, she is all "omg i´m a doper now, i´m going to do all the farm work twice as fast".

With all due respect, I'd like to disagree.
Simone Biles, for example, has publicly acknowledged that she has ADHD and takes medication for that, and that that IOC allows that medication to be used.
If you say that people who take medications can't participate, that is so discriminating, especially since many medical conditions are genetic or hereditary or ones that cannot be prevented. If you say, well just stop having them take it during the games, that's potentially life threatening, to come off of such a medication, especially at the most important athletic competition of their lives.
 

coldblueeyes

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With all due respect, I'd like to disagree.
Simone Biles, for example, has publicly acknowledged that she has ADHD and takes medication for that, and that that IOC allows that medication to be used.
If you say that people who take medications can't participate, that is so discriminating, especially since many medical conditions are genetic or hereditary or ones that cannot be prevented. If you say, well just stop having them take it during the games, that's potentially life threatening, to come off of such a medication, especially at the most important athletic competition of their lives.

And this is why we should have had a thorough study in meldonium, for example, before banning athletes. But that wasn't done. Simone Biles was allowed to compete and win her medals, completely fairly, might I say. Other athletes didn't have the same chance.
 

Purv

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Something like that


ESPN reported that at least a dozen top Russian winter sports athletes, including some publicly implicated in Russia’s 2014 Sochi doping scandal, were not tested by RUSADA in the first 10 months of this year, according to a list published by RUSADA itself several days ago. And more than 60% of Russian athletes who were tested were tested only once.
 

4everchan

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Again these are all speculations.

They are asking for an entire nation to be banned so its not unrealistic for people to ask irrefutable evidences, but until then what's being done(governing sport bodies dealing with their own athletes) is fair.

Come out with the irrefutable evidences then lets ban Russia.

I think one of the issues here is that they wish to ban Russia right now because some athletes who are still competing may have benefited from doping.... let' say that all the evidence is collected over the next 10 years... would it be fairer to ban Russia in 10 years... new Russian athletes, clean ones perhaps?

I find that banning now, and start clean and fresh is perhaps not the perfect situation but in the end it is fairer than banning much later.. athletes that have nothing to do with what happened before???

think about it... it aims at removing cheaters...
 

gmyers

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Yeah that's a good point. Browsing through various news outlets & commentators on the subject, many seems to think that even if IOC does take action, most likely will it not issue a blanket ban. (Like it didn't issue a blanket ban heading to Rio, leaving it up to the various federations instead.)

With the Rio strategy failing so spectacularly in fixing Russia doubt that’s repeated. Not even Russian Athletics has been reinstated by IAAF so banning all but one Russian was a total failure in doing what it was supposed to do. That could be taken two ways I think. Banning athletes doesn’t solve anything or they didn’t ban enough!
 

Sam-Skwantch

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I think one of the issues here is that they wish to ban Russia right now because some athletes who are still competing may have benefited from doping.... let' say that all the evidence is collected over the next 10 years... would it be fairer to ban Russia in 10 years... new Russian athletes, clean ones perhaps?

I find that banning now, and start clean and fresh is perhaps not the perfect situation but in the end it is fairer than banning much later.. athletes that have nothing to do with what happened before???

think about it... it aims at removing cheaters...

YMMV but those medals could be disqualified if evidence is uncovered. I don’t think the evidence is strong enough to suggest the majority were or are doping. That’s where we are. Casting large dispersions seems to be a guarantee of unfairness in many ways.
 

4everchan

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YMMV but those medals could be disqualified if evidence is uncovered. I don’t think the evidence is strong enough to suggest the majority were or are doping. That’s where we are. Casting large dispersions seems to be a guarantee of unfairness in many ways.

not entirely true... not all doping can be seen if tested at games... some drugs are eliminated faster than others... and it can vary within individuals. That is exactly why athletes are tested without warning and several times a year, especially in their off-season. ... and of course... you are willing to strip medals after evidence but it's actually the opposite that is the reality.... the people who are stripped from medals are the ones who finished below what they should have finished because of cheaters... those are the real losers...

I am not saying there is any 100% fair way to punish a country who organized systemic doping. The athletes were already abused by their own governing bodies.
My point is that a case like this will take years to be resolved and in the mean time, some who have cheated will compete.... and these few, will taint the games for EVERYONE. It is to the point in certain sports, that when someone wins and is assumed to be "clean" doubters say " but how could they beat so and so who are suspected to be doped". That was part of the message of Girard... she said : i finished 4th and the top 7-8th were doped... which shows that one can be competitive without the dope... I beat some of these girls. In the end, she wins it all because the other were punished.. but think about it...
This is a much larger issue. It's destroying sport in general. I think that people are naive thinking that figure skaters would not take drugs either.... and I think that from reading some comments, people don't care if some athletes are doped as long as the show is good.

I see it differently.. It has nothing to do with nationality or politics. Canada paid a high price for Ben Johnson... pretty much the entire track and field team was dismantled... I think it's important that people see this investigation in a broader sense and stop thinking Russia Russia Russia, ... it's about the entire survival of the sport right now.
It just happens that this time, it's the Russians who have been faulted and they should pay the price like any other nation would have.

I am done with this topic as I see that YMMV really applies here and I feel that I have expressed my arguments properly already ;)
 

Purv

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Another


RUSADA has conducted 3,782 tests thus far in 2017. Two-thirds of the athletes on the list were tested only once. Less than 12 percent (299 athletes) were tested three times or more. The total test numbers are up from 2,556 in 2016 but in both quantity and focus are inadequate for a country with the resources -- and past history -- of Russian sport, according to several sports and anti-doping officials contacted by ESPN.
 

ejnsofi

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And this is why we should have had a thorough study in meldonium, for example, before banning athletes. But that wasn't done. Simone Biles was allowed to compete and win her medals, completely fairly, might I say. Other athletes didn't have the same chance.

Problem with meldonium is that there is no evident study it can enhance performances of athletes. The results we've got so far are not satisfying and actually if athlete drinks few strong coffees before the run it will have similar effect.

RE Simone Biles: In my opinion if drug is forbidden it should be forbidden for everyone. Sure we can talk that therapeutic dozes don't give doping effect but therapeutic dozes can vary. People with asthma are taking their drugs (some of them forbidden by WADA) to breath and live and it's good and right. BUT the same drug would allow me, healthy person, to get better scores and TBH nobody would be able to tell if I'm really sick as athletes are under control of doctors in their country. I'm saying I think Simone is a doper or people with chronic diseases should be banned. It's just cases like this cause controversies and it doesn't help especially as the information about ADHD athletes seemed to be confidential and uncovering it really pissed WADA off.

By the way Norwegians recommended their cross-country skiers to use inhalers without any evidence of asthma and I don't see WADA knocking on their doors. Turkish athletes are infamous of using doping and I've never read about proposition of banning them
 

bramweld

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This must be so unnerving to the athletes, especially those who are clean and those who know they weren't. I'm hopeful though that they'll sort this ll out in time the athletes, the genuine one need to train in peace.
 

Barb

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I think one of the issues here is that they wish to ban Russia right now because some athletes who are still competing may have benefited from doping.... let' say that all the evidence is collected over the next 10 years... would it be fairer to ban Russia in 10 years... new Russian athletes, clean ones perhaps?

I find that banning now, and start clean and fresh is perhaps not the perfect situation but in the end it is fairer than banning much later.. athletes that have nothing to do with what happened before???

think about it... it aims at removing cheaters...

When someone commits a crime, as far as I understand, they are not punished until they have evidence that that person committed the crime, why is it different in this case? because it's a sport?.
 

4everchan

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When someone commits a crime, as far as I understand, they are not punished until they have evidence that that person committed the crime, why is it different in this case? because it's a sport?.

There is evident systemic doping by the federation. We are not looking at individuals here but at a federation. If the federation is guilty, all components of it could be seen as guilty.
 

lappo

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When someone commits a crime, as far as I understand, they are not punished until they have evidence that that person committed the crime, why is it different in this case? because it's a sport?.

This! And it's even more stupid to potentially punish innocent people for the mistakes of others. In my opinion, IOC should be even more severe when they caught someone cheating (i.e. stripping them of ALL their medals and titles, awarding the medals to runners-up and banning the cheaters for life from all sport activities - competitions, coaching, judging, sport institutions (ditto for cheating judges!) - but they should recognize that each athlete has the right to compete and be considered innocent, unless proofs of cheating behaviour are found.
 

Barb

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There is evident systemic doping by the federation. We are not looking at individuals here but at a federation. If the federation is guilty, all components of it could be seen as guilty.

But you said that the evidence would be collected in the next 10 years, you are implying that there is not enough evidence yet. If there is the evidence now, why wait?
 
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