skating careers

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realistic51

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #21

skating careers


You know, if you're tired of watching certain sports figures because of their longevity in their chosen sport, well, quit watching the sport.

(sarcasm on) Well, let's see: Michael Jordan should bow out (which he IS doing anyway; Tiger Woods should quit because, good grief, he's won everything in sight in golf except Bay Hill; Evander Holyfield can't stick and jab with those youngsters anymore; and oh, let's not forget, Michelle Kwan who naturally is taking up space on the podium.

(All of the above is said in as sarcastic a tone as you can imagine)

Notice, I watch tons of sports. For a female that's pretty darn good. There are football players, basketball players, tennis players (Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi), golfers (note Arnold Palmer IS playing in the Masters this year), and tons of others who SOME people think should step aside for the "younger" set or the up-and-comers. I say this...if you can hold your own against anyone, STAY IN YOUR SPORT!!!! If the youngsters want it bad enough, then they should have to EARN it like the rest did! Nothing is worth anything if you don't compete against the best!

I think this thread IS about one particular skater. I hope that skater keeps skating and skating as an amateur.

Funny how nothing was said about Bonnie Blair's longevity or Dan Jansen's or Carl Lewis' or Jackie Joyner-Kersee's. No one ever called for them to move aside and let me tell you, they were amateurs who made some money, especially the last two. And Michael Johnson as well. So, if they love the sport and love to compete, then maybe the "youngsters" need to take it up a notch themselves.

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #22

Re: skating careers

Kobe and Shaq beat MJ but has MJ been riding the bench like anyone else would be if they were to get beaten as badly?? I think not.....
And if the legends stay around long enough for the newbies to beat them, they will be in their late 30's.... I would much prefer to see these skaters skate shows and professional competitions when they are in their 30's after having been around for so long in the competitive ranks....

 

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ApacheApache

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #23

Re: skating careers

engrsktr: "No one is saying that they should be made to leave... no one said that...
I don't think veterans make the competition boring becuase they are on the podium all the time... I think they make it boring because they do the same things all the time... they have reached their plateau! No one is saying they aren't good... and can't stay around because they aren't good enough..... they are always going to be better than most of the up-and-comers.... and therein lies the problem... if they can always be as good as the newbies, then why have any new skaters... just let them reign as national champion and world champion until they retire from old age! (as old as that can be nowadays! "

I understand your point but you make a flawed assumption that old athletes are always better than the young ones, no they aren't. Perhaps you forget The Principle Of Diminishing Returns. This principle applies to most sports except golf and a few others.

By this principle, veterans are the least likely to win competitions. So I don't really understand why you keep insisting veterans hog the podium. No one in their right minds would bet on a veteran to win a sport especially in sports like figure skating. Take Michelle for example, how many times has she been written off? Many times, simply because people strongly feel she's too old to compete with the young ones and I perfectly understand their rationale. Would you bet on Seles to win another GrandSlam? I wouldnt because she's old already. So, if veterans can still stand on the podium, it's freaking rare and I'd say, good for them.

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #24

Re: skating careers

medalist... you misunderstand....

I said older skaters are most often better than the newbies... and will be because they have been skating longer (for the most part), and have been at the top longer.....
they don't always win, but more often than not will if it comes to them and someone new on the scene....

"No one in their right minds would bet on a veteran to win a sport especially in sports like figure skating."
So what happened with the predictions for the 1994 winter games when all the veterans came back???? who wasn't shocked to see boitano and browning and petrenko struggling??? you contradict...

22 is not old for a skater..... where you got that I don't know... it's not that Michelle is old... she's just been around a long time.... perhaps that makes her seem older than she is.... but it was common for most skaters to be in their early 20's when they peaked... that's because they are now done growing and have become solid in their technique... no one wrote Michelle off.... she has always been the favorite in almost every competition...

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #25

Re: skating careers

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Kobe and Shaq beat MJ but has MJ been riding the bench like anyone else would be if they were to get beaten as badly?? I think not[/quote]

NBA is a sport, and coaches make decisions to put what player in the game at what time. MJ is still contributing to the Wizards overall game. IMO, it may not be a bad time for him to retire, because now the young ones have the confidence that they can beat the great one consistently. BTW, if MJ decides to play for a few more seasons, I am thrilled too. I am still willing to travel to DC and pay $90 per ticket to see him play.

I see no comparison in figure skating yet. If you are bored and tired with some skaters, then take a refrigerator break. The young skaters should step up and beat the current champions in a consistent basis.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats to Michelle, Elena, and Fumie </span>

<span style="color:blue;font-size:large;">Shelly 5 + 3 + 1, trolls none ~ Freddy</span>

 

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alicelouise

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #26

older skaters retire?

The only thing holding back the younger skaters are themselves.

Venus and Serena Williams did not become numbers one and two in the world of Tennis because the reigning champion "stepped aside". Ditto with Tiger Woods. These athletes won.

Skaters are not given medals because of a Hollywood type star system. They, like the golfers and tennis players, must compete and win.

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #27

Re: skating careers

eltamina...

I did not choose the basketball comparison..... look at previous replies for that....

so you are telling me that with the current judging system that if a relative unknown came out of nowhere and skated better than the veteran who skated her best, that she would win? funny...

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #28

Re: skating careers

Heard of Oksana Baiul worlds 93? Kostner's sp vs Sarah's sp in worlds 2003.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>relative unknown came out of nowhere and skated better than the veteran who skated her best[/quote]

That will depend on whether the unknown's best is good enough to beat the veteran's best.

Again, if you have any disagreement with specific skaters and specific competitions, if you think any up and comers WUZ robbed in a particular competition, please have a discussion on why they are robbed, and back that up with tech and presentation merits according to ISU rules preferably.

<span style="color:blue;font-size:large;">Shelly 5 + 3 + 1, trolls none ~ Freddy</span>

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #29

Re: older skaters retire?

well firstly, the difference between tiger/williams sisters, and skaters is that there are no judges in either golf or tennis....and judges CANNOT be completely objective.... it's impossible....
so no basis for comparison in that way..... secondly, the PGA is exactly that - professional.... and the tennis of which you speak is also completely professional.... skating still has that line between eligible skating and "professional" skating...as long as the line exists, I will always think that once a skater has reached his/her plateau and stops changing and growing as an amateur it is time to move on.... it's not like you can't compete as a professional....!

 

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eltamina

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #30

Re: older skaters retire?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I will always think that once a skater has reached his/her plateau and stops changing and growing as an amateur it is time to move on....[/quote]

And you have stated that many times here, and I respectfully disagree, becuase some skaters plateau are higher than others peak. It is good for the sport if young skaters can consistently beat the legends. I am sure the victories for them will be sweeter too.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats Michelle, Elena, and Fumie</span>

<span style="color:blue;font-size:large;">Shelly 5 + 3 + 1, trolls none ~ Freddy</span>

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #31

Re: older skaters retire?

not for most elite skaters....

 

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Freddy the Pig 2

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #32

Michelle should retire!

Shelly, Shelly, what's the matter?
Hear the chat-room chitter-chatter.
Triple Salchows, triple toes,
Your triple-triple comes and goes.

"Freddy, Freddy, me oh my!
It makes me want to sob and cry.
I'll practice harder, set new goals,
Got to please the chat-room trolls,

I'll walk their walks, I'll talk their talks...

Oh, wait...what's this?...what's in this box?
Why, yes, it looks like...can it be?
My <strong>fifth World gold</strong> to comfort me."

The chat-room trolls, they slink away.
"But we'll be back," they turn to say.
Poor sad trolls, Michelle still rules,
And <strong>once again</strong> they look like fools.

Freddy

 

P

Pookie

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #33

Re: Michelle should retire!

Great poem . .:lol:

 

M

mathman444

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #34

Congrats

Eltamina, congratulations on your 1000th post!

Mathman

 

J

Joesitz

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #35

Re: skating careers

engrdsktr = Age does make a difference. We have been over hyped with Tara's age at winning the Olyimpics. Without going into whether she deserved it, was is it because of her age? I doubt that. Two very old(?) lady skaters have just won lst and 2nd places in the Worlds against soooo many younger ones.

IMO, figure skating is tough the older one gets, but for some it does not matter. If quads are what you are talking about, well, maybe your right. Judging seems to be going in that direction. Yet when a seasoned skater takes the ice it separates the boys from the men and girls from the ladies.

In my opinion, air turns are now the endall to figure skating.

Joe

 

L

Lynn1951

Guest

• Apr 4, 2003

• #36

Re: skating careers

Great poem! Freddy Rocks

Lynn

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 5, 2003

• #37

Re: Michelle should retire!

WAY too much time on someone's hands for that poem

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 5, 2003

• #38

Re: skating careers

eltamina.....

I said a newbie coming out of nowhere who skates better than the veteran WHO SKATES HER BEST.... Nancy kerrigan didn't skate well at all at 93 worlds and she was about the only contender that year........ so that's not the scenario posed..... thanks for really payig attention to what I wrote

 

F

Freddy the Pig 2

Guest

• Apr 5, 2003

• #39

Re: Michelle should retire!

Too close for comfort, Engrsktr?

 

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engrsktr

Guest

• Apr 5, 2003

• #40

Re: Michelle should retire!

nothing's too close for comfort.... just being objective and raising a point that I noticed.... to be honest, I don't have a favorite skater.... I just like the sport.... so when I see something I feel like questioning I like to question it...... I don't play favorites.....