What if Pechalat/Bourzat had stayed in?

If Pechalat and Bourzat had stayed in eligible competition after 2014, do you think the rise of Papadakis/Cizeron would have been so fast, or would they have had to 'wait' in around the 4th-6th spots at Worlds until their countymen retired? Would they have been 'allowed' by politics to leave Pechalat/Bourzat in the dust and win gold, or at least battle with them for a podium place? After all, their (P/C's, that is) rise was especially meteoric if you take into account the fact that they were left off the Sochi Olympic team in favour of Pernelle Carron/Lloyd Jones, a fairly average team.

It's a good question. One reason that P&C had a meteoric rise was that the post Olympic rule changes were ones that were good for them, but those same changes would have been favorable to Pechalat and Bourzat, too.

I think both teams would have done very well, and it might have taken P&C a year or more to pass them, particularly given that P&C had some SD problems with the Paso Doble that 2014-15 season.
http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00008338.htm

At Worlds, P&C were fourth in the SD, for example.

P&B excelled in Spanish rhythms and presentation, and could have scored extremely well in a Paso Doble SD, right from the get-go, and I would not have been at all surprised to see P&B finish first in any SD competition they entered that season, including at French Nationals.

http://web.archive.org/web/20141129231346/http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/CAT004RS.HTM

P&B would have entered the 2014-15 season with scores and reputation as in a virtual tie with C&L and W&P for World Champion.

So yes, it would have made for a very interesting competition.

Interesting - I hadn't taken P/B's success with Spanish rhythms into account.

Actually, can we ask the same, but "reversed" question for Italy ? Since last year, I see Guignard/Fabbri improvement as tremendous, yet the "wait your turn" situation is a bit real. They could be a little higher in the rankings perhaps ? Or Russia : I/K beat B/S in Sochi but never before IIRC.

P/B would have been a great entertainment if they were still here... they are the original "originals" Maybe a USA dance competition type of situation, where the 3 top teams constantly have to fight between themselves ? In any case, France would have 3 teams for Euros and Worlds every time.

But then P/C are IJS skaters and P/B less. A Davis/White vs Belbin/Agosto situation, the latter being finally beaten by the young, very dynamic and technically incredible team. But I would have loved seeing them for a 4th Olympic Games. I know you get remembered for World gold, Olympic gold, but they made their mark more than some World champions at the end of the day.

I don't know how it would've gone to which way. "Anything could've/should've/would've been" didn't happen in reality although it could be a good topic for off-season. Although I was a fan of P/B and was very upset at the ridiculous result in dance as well favoring only the Russians at Sochi and following Worlds, I can't imagine of their staying and continuation in competition because of their age and their interviews regarding their wish on future careers.

Anyasnake said:

Actually, can we ask the same, but "reversed" question for Italy ? Since last year, I see Guignard/Fabbri improvement as tremendous, yet the "wait your turn" situation is a bit real. They could be a little higher in the rankings perhaps ? Or Russia : I/K beat B/S in Sochi but never before IIRC.

P/B would have been a great entertainment if they were still here... they are the original "originals" Maybe a USA dance competition type of situation, where the 3 top teams constantly have to fight between themselves ? In any case, France would have 3 teams for Euros and Worlds every time.

But then P/C are IJS skaters and P/B less. A Davis/White vs Belbin/Agosto situation, the latter being finally beaten by the young, very dynamic and technically incredible team. But I would have loved seeing them for a 4th Olympic Games. I know you get remembered for World gold, Olympic gold, but they made their mark more than some World champions at the end of the day.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I see G/F getting closer and closer to C/L in technical skill... well, in everything. I think if C/L were to stay in after this Olympic season, they might eventually get passed by their teammates. While I don't think G/F would be on the world podium without C/L competing, they might be ranked a little higher than they are now.

blue_idealist said:

If Pechalat and Bourzat had stayed in eligible competition after 2014, do you think the rise of Papadakis/Cizeron would have been so fast, or would they have had to 'wait' in around the 4th-6th spots at Worlds until their countymen retired? Would they have been 'allowed' by politics to leave Pechalat/Bourzat in the dust and win gold, or at least battle with them for a podium place? After all, their (P/C's, that is) rise was especially meteoric if you take into account the fact that they were left off the Sochi Olympic team in favour of Pernelle Carron/Lloyd Jones, a fairly average team.

Click to expand...

I am kind of thinking they will be among the top 3 for sure. Make France the new superpower in Ice Dancing. They have the goods for it, love them to bits!

Based on level of skill, I think P/B could have been world champion contenders in the 2014-2015 season and then gone the way of Cappellini/Lanotte by the 2017-2018 season.

VIETgrlTerifa said:

Based on level of skill, I think P/B could have been world champion contenders in the 2014-2015 season and then gone the way of Cappellini/Lanotte by the 2017-2018 season.

Click to expand...

The only thing that can harm their chance are their age and politics. I find them far more interesting, original and watchable than Capellini/Lanotte.

The biggest issue might have been their health, but in a whatif topic, I am assuming they enter the 2014-15 season healthy and have the drive to compete with full commitment.

Yes, I think the political question is the most interesting. Would the French fed have used a wait your turn policy? The configuration of the Grand Prix would have been very different because P&B, as a returning World bronze medallist, would have been top seed at two events, one of them TEB, surely. And at such an event, I definitely see them winning the SD, as W&P and C&L would have been at different events.

In real world, C&L finished 3rd at CoC and withdrew from TEB to change programs, leaving P&C entering TEB with a CoC win and an open field at TEB.

But in whatif world, C&L would not even have been scheduled for TEB because the French fed would have invited P&B as top seed instead.

The 2014-15 field was hollowed out. V& M and D&W not competing. I&K and S&Z partner swapped. The Shibs fighting a back injury to Alex, a growth spurt to Maia, and the commitments to college. C&L moving to Zoueva /Mezzadri instead of Shpilband/Mezzadri and it was not a good coach/team matchup, that resulted in them getting a bum set of programs.

TEB 2014 had a very weak field. It would have been P&B and P&C in the top two spots, but I am guessing P&B for the win, leaving P&C with one win and one loss. W&P would have won SC in both real and whatif..
Would they have been at NHK to win it, or would C&L have been at that event instead?

So the question is what second event would C&L and P&B have been at? USA and Russia would have been open.

OS said:

The only thing that can harm their chance are their age and politics. I find them far more interesting, original and watchable than Capellini/Lanotte.

Click to expand...

I used to, but I thought some of their programs were just as plain as others. However, when they hit a great concept they really hit it. I think their level of skating skills aren't as good as the current top teams now, but then maybe they would have improved on that front had they stayed in as well.

VIETgrlTerifa said:

I used to, but I thought some of their programs were just as plain as others. However, when they hit a great concept they really hit it. I think their level of skating skills aren't as good as the current top teams now, but then maybe they would have improved on that front had they stayed in as well.

Click to expand...

I thought most of their programs were super-interesting, but I don't know if they would have improved their skating skills. They seemed to be stagnating or even getting worse on that front, especially him. I'm thinking of 2012 vs. 2013, when I know he was injured in 2013, but still. They were both very good, generally, but I think she was slightly better.

Anyasnake said:

P/B would have been a great entertainment if they were still here... they are the original "originals"

Click to expand...

I like P/B and they surely would have won 2015 Worlds of they stayed for it, but they were the least original top French dance team.

Blades of Passion said:

I like P/B and they surely would have won 2015 Worlds of they stayed for it, but they were the least original top French dance team.

Click to expand...

Moniotte/Lavanchy.

But then I always found them annoying.

Blades of Passion said:

I like P/B and they surely would have won 2015 Worlds of they stayed for it, but they were the least original top French dance team.

Click to expand...

Well if you compare them to every single french dance team... On an international scene they were.
I don't know if they would have won Worlds 2015 though. Maybe ? 2 french team on the podium might be too much for some.

WeakAnkles said:

Moniotte/Lavanchy.

But then I always found them annoying.

Click to expand...

As youngsters, they had interesting programs. POTO for 1991, Beetlejuice the year after and IMO their best FD, Orfeu Negro 1993. Their 1994 FD was quite difficult even if it might be boring to some. Then their Paso OD and Kalinka FD looked promising based on the outfits only though. You can't say their Riverdance FD wasn't an original concept. Water flow. Alas they were injuried again that fall and came very unprepared at Euros. Perfect timing for AP to finally pass them internationally. (Plus an atrocious OD from ML)
They also had a pair of nice OD, 1992 Polka and 1997 Tango are very good. They trashed AP that year on that particular rythm.
Their 1995 FD was also quite a piece of choreography and a difficult program to pull off. Sure it wasn't the most popular but they were clearly robbed of gold at euros. RK FD was subpar, I know it's not a common opinion but IMO there's not doubt which FD is better of the two. That's all it came down to. And the french judges placing the italian lady too low in the eyes of the italian dance's judge.

Back to the original topic my guess is PB would have been assigned to COC and TEB, that's the set of GP they liked the most and were the most succesfull at. Not sure PC would have won COC or CL been there at all.
Anyway, I think Didier would have dumped PB as soon as he realized PC's potential.