Judging tomfoolery - here we go again! | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Judging tomfoolery - here we go again!

zebobes

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
According to the suppositions, he was favoring H/K, I still find it strange that someone risks his position at the ISU after having coming back from a sanction, for Sara and Kirill, not for V/M, not for P/C, or even to favor to the Russians, of all people, he risked for Sara and Kirill :scratch3:, who Incidentally, they do not have even a dime, they don´t have a federation behind them, the Spanish federation more than once showed preference for S/D. Either the guy is clinically with a mental disease and he does it for pleasure, or he is in love with Sara, Kirill or Zhulin.

Ah, but you're thinking too small. If Spain's representative is H/K, then that means Spain's judge will tend to be more supportive of Zhulin skaters, which is better for Bobrova and Soloviev, since Spain knows that the Russian judge will treat them favorably. If Spain's representative is Smart and Diaz, that means Spain's judge will have to be more supportive of the Montreal teams, possibly benefiting Hubbell and Donohue, who also happen to be dating Smart and Diaz.

I'm not saying I believe all of these complex machinations to be true, but because of the way different teams and countries are interconnected, you can see how this is more than just about the teams themselves, it's about how many teams are associated with each coaching team, and getting mutual support from another country for your team. Which in ice dance, when the GOEs can be a bit subjective, can make a difference.
 

Eclair

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
So is the case now officially dropped? Has it been cleared how much the Russian judge was involved in this? Was the Russian judge also investigated?
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
Ah, but you're thinking too small. If Spain's representative is H/K, then that means Spain's judge will tend to be more supportive of Zhulin skaters, which is better for Bobrova and Soloviev, since Spain knows that the Russian judge will treat them favorably. If Spain's representative is Smart and Diaz, that means Spain's judge will have to be more supportive of the Montreal teams, possibly benefiting Hubbell and Donohue, who also happen to be dating Smart and Diaz.

I'm not saying I believe all of these complex machinations to be true, but because of the way different teams and countries are interconnected, you can see how this is more than just about the teams themselves, it's about how many teams are associated with each coaching team, and getting mutual support from another country for your team. Which in ice dance, when the GOEs can be a bit subjective, can make a difference.

All of that assuming that A spanish judge will be drawn to judge dance (they will at least one program) and that one judge will shift the results to one side or the other.
 

Ares

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Country
Poland
I'm surprised the ISU bothered to look into this considering there are many blatantly obvious overscoring at much more important events than this

I am not surprised. ISU maybe is rotten but not dumb enough to overlook how many people already see through their shenanigans so they approached this particular situation seriously just to keep this pretence of being accountable / reliable by calling out single individual and possibly just a very incompetent judge. Unfortunately we can surmise that this is just the tip of the iceberg of various dirty secrets (or not even secrets) and as this is ISU we can't confide in ISU that such an individual won't return to judging. By that time only 10% of figure skating geeks would latch on that in time so their reputation for clueless public is somehow not blemished further. I think that ISU judge / official / tech specialist or even referee suspended once should never be allowed again but alas ... it's very common. Add up ''jobs for the boys'' mentality and clear favouritism & nepotism and you have a recipe for disaster. Also ... how the wife of the figure skating president can be a judge, or president of one of the figure skating unions? And judge or call ethically?
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Judges who cheat don’t care about the sport they suppose to love. If they truly cared and were interested in the sport, they would never had chosen to cheat in the first place.
Cheating judges don’t care about the lives of elite skaters who they ruin. They are wretched and disgusting human beings who do not deserve to judge this sport or participate in the spot in any capacity whatsoever. They are spineless fools with no integrity and should never think about stepping into an ice rink, let alone a judge’s seat.

If they coach or teach skaters at an ice rink, they should be ashamed of themselves, and they should question themselves. I dont want cheating judges to even think about coaching kids or young skaters. I don’t even want them anywhere near an ice rink.

Cheaters should be treated like cheaters.
That is the bottom line.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Judges are not supposed to be coaches.

Paid employees of ISU Members and their affiliated clubs, and remunerated Coaches, may not be a Referee, Assistant Referee, Technical Controller, Judge, OAC member, Starter or Competitors Steward in ISU Events or any other International Competitions sanctioned by an ISU Member or the ISU

http://www.isu.org/isu-statutes-constitution-regulations-technical


Technical specialists can be coaches.
 

Hevari

Drivers start your engines!
On the Ice
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
For me this is one more consequence of the fact that many today's judges/officials started judging back in times of 6.0 system with that (still not bad) system's tendencies like block voting and even Cold War atmosphere. So it seems that they, for whom it is habitual and natural, try to behave the same way in IJS environment.

So maybe one of the ways to solve the judging problems is to involve to work on a major competitions more judges/officals who grew up as officials/judges already under IJS and so were not intoxicated by negative tendencies of 6.0 system?

Yes, I know that someone will argue about lesser experiense and so on, but... For me I can understand and forgive the blunder made because of lack of experience (Experience comes only with practice - you can play guitar at home and polish your technical skills, working with sound and so on, but you will never know how to make a record without entering the studio and you will never know what is playing live without stepping on the stage...). But I can't understand "blunders" made because of cheating or collusion of that "super highly experienced" judges/officials.
 

Procrastinator

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
For me this is one more consequence of the fact that many today's judges/officials started judging back in times of 6.0 system with that (still not bad) system's tendencies like block voting and even Cold War atmosphere. So it seems that they, for whom it is habitual and natural, try to behave the same way in IJS environment.

So maybe one of the ways to solve the judging problems is to involve to work on a major competitions more judges/officals who grew up as officials/judges already under IJS and so were not intoxicated by negative tendencies of 6.0 system?

Yes, I know that someone will argue about lesser experiense and so on, but... For me I can understand and forgive the blunder made because of lack of experience (Experience comes only with practice - you can play guitar at home and polish your technical skills, working with sound and so on, but you will never know how to make a record without entering the studio and you will never know what is playing live without stepping on the stage...). But I can't understand "blunders" made because of cheating or collusion of that "super highly experienced" judges/officials.

For this reason, I have reportedly suggested on fora and comments that skating needs to do what gymnastics has had to do: train a generation of elite judges from non-powerhouse countries, even small "irrelevant" ones. Honestly, I'd feel much better with a judging panel from Malaysia, New Zealand, Mexico, South Africa, etc. than with multiple Russian/Canadian federation insiders on it.
 

Hevari

Drivers start your engines!
On the Ice
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
For this reason, I have reportedly suggested on fora and comments that skating needs to do what gymnastics has had to do: train a generation of elite judges from non-powerhouse countries, even small "irrelevant" ones. Honestly, I'd feel much better with a judging panel from Malaysia, New Zealand, Mexico, South Africa, etc. than with multiple Russian/Canadian federation insiders on it.

And first of all ISU has to fix one of the biggest blunders that it made... ISU must review judges appointment system because todays system when national feds are responsible for judges appointment is nonsence and rubbish. ISU must take the responsibility for appointing judges to all international competitions from Junior and B-Internationals to Worlds and Olympics.
 

Skatestraight

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Wouldn’t think it was sensationalistic if it was your career on the line, don’t forget for these skaters fair play and fair marks and a fair competition should be what they get for all the hard work they put into their sport not people especially people who should know better trying to bring their sport into disrepute.
 

Eclair

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
ISU decision on Gorojdanov.

http://www.isu.org/communications/1...u-id-vs-gorojdanov-order-no-2-12-01-2018/file

He was accused of having violated his duties as a Judge.

Given he has resigned, Disciplinary Commission doesn't have jurisdiction anymore and therefore the proceedings are terminated.

so all investigation on this case is closed? what about the Russian judge? or the coach that filmed the judge? did they get any form of penalty/warning/investigation?
 
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