Judging tomfoolery - here we go again!

visaliakid · Dec 20, 2017

EXCLUSIVE: Suspended once, international figure skate judge under investigation again - by Philip Hersh, Globetrotting

http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2017/12/19/figure-skating-judge-ethics-investigation

:palmf:

lappo · Dec 20, 2017

:hslap:
Also, this is a mess also in light of the Spanish ice dancers: S/D won the National and will go to Worlds but H/K will go to the Olympics and one of the criteria is their result in that competition. I learned from FSU that there is a bit of turmoil regarding the decision.
Anyway, this new episode confirms that the problems for FS credibility as a sport are certainly not the costumes...

Spinning · Dec 20, 2017

Ah...the Golden Spin again. Dodgy competition with slimy judge. I surprise the ISU decided to touch it this time around. :sarcasm:

Shayuki · Dec 20, 2017

Interesting that they focus on something like this when J4 was giving Zagorski/Guerreiro 5s for PCS in that same exact event.

But I guess scoring whatever you feel like isn't considered a problem whereas copying another judge's reasonable scores is.

Mathman said:
In my opinion, yes, copying another judge's marks or communicating with other judges in a possible effort to influence their marks,or using prepared notes (or whatever he was doing that someone said, "Look at that judge just cheating away -- I'm going to get this on video!") is much worse than giving scores that are out of line with the other judges. J4 might be simply incompetent or inexperienced. Or maybe she had what she considered good reasons for marking a team lower.

I see that the same judge (J7 in the Free Dance) brought her scores for this team up to the level of the other judges in the free dance. Maybe she got caught flat-footed and nimbly re-evaluated her scoring of this team. (She was no friend of Hawayek and Baker in the short dance either.) It's a judged sport. Judges have different opinions.

Well, certainly, the method is worse and shouldn't be tolerated, but the end result really isn't that bad here. Obviously, I am in favor of punishing this judge. However...

To me incompetence and inexperience aren't something that should be able to be just brushed aside. I'm in favor of far more comperehensive judge review and evaluation program where they actually need to give proper reasoning and arguments for what reasons they actually could have had for scoring someone like that. I don't think that going from 32 PCS to 22 PCS is within the realm of "opinion" - it's very possible to recognize someone as good despite not liking them. If they're that incompetent they shouldn't be judging, period.

The aim is to have some form of credibility. Points just cannot range that much for there to be any.

Mathman · Dec 20, 2017

Shayuki said:
Interesting that they focus on something like this when J4 was giving Zagorski/Guerreiro 5s for PCS in that same exact event.

But I guess scoring whatever you feel like isn't considered a problem whereas copying another judge's reasonable scores is.

In my opinion, yes, copying another judge's marks or communicating with other judges in a possible effort to influence their marks,or using prepared notes (or whatever he was doing that someone said, "Look at that judge just cheating away -- I'm going to get this on video!") is much worse than giving scores that are out of line with the other judges. J4 might be simply incompetent or inexperienced. Or maybe she had what she considered good reasons for marking a team lower.

I see that the same judge (J7 in the Free Dance) brought her scores for this team up to the level of the other judges in the free dance. Maybe she got caught flat-footed and nimbly re-evaluated her scoring of this team. (She was no friend of Hawayek and Baker in the short dance either.) It's a judged sport. Judges have different opinions.

Baron Vladimir · Dec 20, 2017

^^^

How to be sure there was a attempt to influence the other judges marks, or copy them, or using prepared notes? Its look like a sensationalistic news to me, there is nothing special in it yet, in my opinion. Just an excuse to write about something...same old...same old...

OS · Dec 20, 2017

Haa I knew there was something fishy about that Belarussian just reading the protocal from the Russia Rostelcom cup ladies panel.

So just another slap on the wrist, and carry on marking as usual then. Just another day at the office for ISU judges serving Lakernik.

Baron Vladimir · Dec 20, 2017

college pat · Dec 20, 2017

yes here we go again., getting old and tiresome. :rolleye:

rules, policy and procedures to stop why still going on?

Mathman · Dec 20, 2017

Baron Vladimir said:
^^^

How to be sure there was a attempt to influence the other judges marks, or copy them, or using prepared notes? Its look like a sensationalistic news to me, there is nothing special in it yet, in my opinion. Just an excuse to write about something...same old...same old...

Well, we don't know yet. That is the point of the ISU investigation, to see if they can get to the bottom of it. This judge was investigated before and served a temporary suspension. We will have to wait and see what the ISU determines.

LoveSkater · Dec 20, 2017

Stuped judge! Russia needs him for overscoring and help in critical moments. But this dude is so corrupt that he is basically bored without cheating.

GF2445 · Dec 21, 2017

Being out of line in the judging is one thing

but needing to copy scores off other judges is just plain cheating AND/OR utter incompetence.

Life time ban.

matcha · Dec 21, 2017

I get that the pool of judges, refs and techs are small, but they really need to start enforcing lifetime bans. Go zero tolerance on their asses.

Mawwerg · Dec 21, 2017

I looked at Golden Spin short dance protocols and was not able to find anything suspicious with J6 marks for Parsons program. With J7 he has 3 of 5 same marks for elements and 0 of 5 for components. With J5 there are 2 of 5 for elements and 2 of 5 for components. However his behaviour is quite weird.

Eclair · Dec 21, 2017

I've often seen judges taking to each other, whether in completion or during practice sessions - so much, that they weren't even watching the skater. In my opinion, judges don't belong to practice sessions. They should judge what's done in competition, not the impression a skater makes in practice. And I don't even think their understanding of the program, choreography, thought and art in a program would change much, if they didn't watch the programs in practice.

While I find it ridiculous that people say figure skating isn't a sport because of the costume, if I'm really honest, I do agree that figure skating is not a sport because of the corrupt judging. I'm not talking about personal or cultural taste in artistry, but the outright in your face corrupt judging that's going on in SS, TR, GOE and performance.
Anyone who doubts that just have to look at the difference in PCS rise between Nathan and Boyang with both being very inconsistent. How can the GOE for Nathan's 3axel turn out positive? Or how can both Nathan and Satoko's UR be overlooked. Or look at the PCS difference between Savcheko/Szokowy and Volozozhar/Trankov in the Olympic season, not to mention Adelina's unprecedented PCS rise during that season. Or the way Wakaba looses against Alina. Or the PCS Evgenia is getting for SS and Interpretation. Or the PCS Kozuka got at his last World Championship (surprise, it was lower than Nam's, Brezina's, Kovtun's etc. PCS in the same competition).

I just hope, ISU doesn't put some penalty on the judge who took the video, like in Salt Lake City. And don't forbid fancams, as this would seriously hurt the spreading of the sport.

There should be a camera pointed to the judges the whole time in every event anyways. This way, no judge can talk or look at his/her neighbors scores. Fans should start filming judges and not skaters.

elle_e · Dec 23, 2017

Eclair said:
I've often seen judges taking to each other, whether in completion or during practice sessions - so much, that they weren't even watching the skater. In my opinion, judges don't belong to practice sessions. They should judge what's done in competition, not the impression a skater makes in practice. And I don't even think their understanding of the program, choreography, thought and art in a program would change much, if they didn't watch the programs in practice.

Judges generally don't watch practices, at least not where I'm from. The tech panel does attend though. Depending on the scale of the competition - I highly doubt it would be a frequent occurrence to see judges chatting it up at an ISU championship event - with local competitions the rules are far more relaxed.

Eclair · Dec 23, 2017

elle_e said:
Judges generally don't watch practices, at least not where I'm from. The tech panel does attend though. Depending on the scale of the competition - I highly doubt it would be a frequent occurrence to see judges chatting it up at an ISU championship event - with local competitions the rules are far more relaxed.

well judges often attend world championship practices, as well as other international competitions ... and I really have seen a lot of practice videos were judges were in the background chatting with each other (and not in local competitions but international ones). I don't remember a specific one, but next time I stumble upon such a video again, I'll post it here I guess ...

Miss Ice · Dec 23, 2017

Alexander Lakernik of Russia, the International Skating Union’s highest ranking figure skating official, said in an email that the ISU is “investigating the irregularities at the the Golden Spin of Zagreb.”

HAHA, they are getting this guy to investigate it? Man, ISU has truly become the biggest joke ever.

Eclair · Dec 23, 2017

Miss Ice said:
HAHA, they are getting this guy to investigate it? Man, ISU has truly become the biggest joke ever.

Oh hey, that Belarusian judge is under suspect to have spoken with the Russian judge and adapted his scores according to hers. Well, OK, let's put the Russian ISU official on this case and let him investigate it. :rofl:

slider11 · Dec 23, 2017

Looking at the video the judge in question looks to me like he is confused and unsure of how to judge. It looks to me like he's looking for guidance from the judge to his right. Not a good thing, for sure, but different than sinister. He just seems like he's out of his league. Certainly reason to suspend him.

Judging tomfoolery - here we go again!

visaliakid

lappo

Spinning

Shayuki

Mathman

Baron Vladimir

OS

Sedated by Modonium

Baron Vladimir

college pat

Mathman

LoveSkater

GF2445

matcha

Mawwerg

Eclair

elle_e

Eclair

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~

Eclair

slider11

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