Arm Variations Other Than Tano and Rippon

drivingmissdaisy · Dec 26, 2017

We see a lot of Tano and Rippon jumps in the ladies event these days, and it made me think about what other arm variations skaters could do to earn bonus points. These are some that I have noticed over the years:

Courtney Hicks with an arm in front and an arm behind her on the 3Lo (at 2:54) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0umS1bt_iI

Nancy Kerrigan with her arms at her side on a 2F (at 2:53) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDjaEWsP2vE

Surya Bonaly with her hands on her head on a 2F (at 3:19) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOkGmPdIAO8

Are there other arm variations that have been done in competition?

Baron Vladimir · Dec 26, 2017

Youve just made me realize Surya Bonaly is the coolest lady skater in FS history :rock:

gkelly posted an example of this toeloop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ3_aQff6Cg&t=1m20s with arms variation (quite similiar with what Nancy did tho, but better)

arewhyaen · Dec 26, 2017

I doubt the following arm variations can be done, but it's very funny to imagine:

'The Helicopter' where the skater jumps with her arms out wide.
'The Flirt' where the skater blows a kiss while in mid-air.
'The Kardashian' where the skater jumps with her hands on her butt.
'The Egyptian' where the skater jumps like an Egyptian
'The Octomom' where the skater jumps as if cradling a baby
'The Pelvic Crusher' where the skater jumps while in the biellmann position

Wilhelmina · Dec 26, 2017

Richard Dornbush, on the second jump in this combo from his 2014-15 LP, holds his arms down and behind his back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01dPtTWGAVE&t=4m04s

I loved that program.

katmari · Dec 26, 2017

Along with the tano, Brian Boitano also did an arms in front variation on the double axel at the end of his SP in 1988 and maintained the variation through the landing:

Brian Boitano 1988 Olympic SP

charlotte14 · Dec 26, 2017

These arm variations are actually difficult for the rotation. While Rippon actually helps with the rotation. My coach says many Russian young skaters are training rippon jump because their core strength has not developed well enough, so the rippon helps them.

Sam-Skwantch · Dec 26, 2017

charlotte14 said:
These arm variations are actually difficult for the rotation. While Rippon actually helps with the rotation. My coach says many Russian young skaters are training rippon jump because their core strength has not developed well enough, so the rippon helps them.

It also helps them extend and sort of straighten out their spine which helps create a tighter center of gravity. Serafima has said it helps create lift and aids with the step up part of her jumps. Maria Sotskova has actually improved and reduced her tendency to UR this season. People can complain all they like about their personal preference but the results are speaking much louder than any of those complainers and I say if it's helping skaters achieve greater jump results then it is a perfectly acceptable technique.

charlotte14 · Dec 26, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
It also helps them extend and sort of straighten out their spine which helps create a tighter center of gravity. Serafima has said it helps create lift and aids with the step up part of her jumps. Maria Sotskova has actually improved and reduced her tendency to UR this season. People can complain all they like about their personal preference but the results are speaking much louder than any of those complainers and I say if it's helping skaters achieve greater jump results then it is a perfectly acceptable technique.

Yes I have no issue with the young girls Rippon and Tano all their jumps. Just the thing is, if these move actually HELP with the rotation, they should not get bonus GOE for them.

And Sotskova's Tano = OMG IT PAINS MY EYES!

Sam-Skwantch · Dec 26, 2017

charlotte14 said:
Yes I have no issue with the young girls Rippon and Tano all their jumps. Just the thing is, if these move actually HELP with the rotation, they should not get bonus GOE for them.

And Sotskova's Tano = OMG IT PAINS MY EYES!

Well I like Masha's jumps and I think people are just prone to nitpick according to their own preferences but the judges aren't required to reward tanos and I don't think they always do for Masha. She doesn't get great GOE really but she has plenty of great qualities to her jumps to earn what she does get. I even believe it's hurt her PCS at times. The arm variations can increase GOE but it's not required or anything under the current rules. In fact not one GOE bullet point is required to be counted if it doesn't increase the quality in the judge's mind. That's a myth that people have given legs to but there is no truth to it. They may get mad if they believe a judge decides to reward them a lot but no one knows why the judges are giving their GOE values.

WeakAnkles · Dec 26, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
It also helps them extend and sort of straighten out their spine which helps create a tighter center of gravity. Serafima has said it helps create lift and aids with the step up part of her jumps. Maria Sotskova has actually improved and reduced her tendency to UR this season. People can complain all they like about their personal preference but the results are speaking much louder than any of those complainers and I say if it's helping skaters achieve greater jump results then it is a perfectly acceptable technique.

Perfectly acceptable perhaps. But perfectly ugly, most of the time.

charlotte14 · Dec 26, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
Well I like Masha's jumps and I think people are just prone to nitpick according to their own preferences but the judges aren't required to reward tanos and I don't think they always do for Masha. She doesn't get great GOE really but she has plenty of great qualities to her jumps to earn what she does get. I even believe it's hurt her PCS at times. The arm variations can increase GOE but it's not required or anything under the current rules. In fact not one GOE bullet point is required to be counted if it doesn't increase the quality in the judge's mind. That's a myth that people have given legs to but there is no truth to it. They may get mad if they believe a judge decides to reward them a lot but no one knows why the judges are giving their GOE values.

Not sure but in general, isn't all the tano and rippon jumps get higher GOE than jumps without it?

- - - Updated - - -

WeakAnkles said:
Perfectly acceptable perhaps. But perfectly ugly, most of the time.

Lol yes, I have no issue with Sotskova but her tano... :reye:

Pasdedeux · Dec 26, 2017

Tanos and rippons definitely make jumping more difficult. There is a reason why figure skating tends to favor short people - smaller rotational axis. Extending your arm or arms up in effect makes you taller, and requires more core strength to control the rotation. On the other hand it does help with keeping your body straighter too...

charlotte14 · Dec 26, 2017

Pasdedeux said:
Tanos and rippons definitely make jumping more difficult. There is a reason why figure skating tends to favor short people - smaller rotational axis. Extending your arm or arms up in effect makes you taller, and requires more core strength to control the rotation. On the other hand it does help with keeping your body straighter too...

Not really. I think it depends. To some skaters, especially young girls, Rippon helps them a lot IMO.

Sam-Skwantch · Dec 26, 2017

charlotte14 said:
Not sure but in general, isn't all the tano and rippon jumps get higher GOE than jumps without it?

We really don't know that do we because we can't get into the judges minds. Is there an example you are thinking of where you think the GOE was increased based on an undeserving Tano and the jump didn't have enough of the other qualities to warrant the GOE? I'd be interested? Maybe a skater who saw their best GOE on Tano jumps and lower on the rest during a performance?

charlotte14 · Dec 26, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
We really don't know that do we because we can't get into the judges minds. Is there an example you are thinking of where you think the GOE was increased based on an undeserving Tano and the jump didn't have enough of the other qualities to warrant the GOE? I'd be interested? Maybe a skater who saw their best GOE on Tano jumps and lower on the rest during a performance?

Do we have skaters with Tano + Rippon and very very low GOE in jumps?

Sam-Skwantch · Dec 26, 2017

charlotte14 said:
Do we have skaters with Tano + Rippon and very very low GOE in jumps?

Dasha Panenkova comes to mind as one who doesn't usually get great GOE and she has excellent height and control. She Rippons every jump and doesn't get great GOE or PCS.

charlotte14 · Dec 26, 2017

Sam-Skwantch said:
Dasha Panenkova comes to mind as one who doesn't usually get great GOE and she has excellent height and control. She Rippons every jump and doesn't get great GOE or PCS.

I remember she got 130 or higher than that at JGP? It's hardly a low score.

ks777 · Dec 26, 2017

I don't know why it's called Rippon. He was not the first skater to do that arm variation. Midori used to do them all the time in the 80s.

Sam-Skwantch · Dec 26, 2017

charlotte14 said:
I remember she got 130 or higher than that at JGP? It's hardly a low score.

You’re talking total score now....we were discussing GOE I thought?

Anyway...her GOE seemed fine at Baltic Cup and actually lowered as her program went on...so I guess one could conclude the Rippons lost their impact with judges as she kept using them.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/jgppol2017/jgppol2017_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

Here is the first and highest scored GOE jump.
3z-3t
+1.70 GOE
13.03pts
https://youtu.be/ws7rHhX-mj8?t=4m44s

A couple of 3’s but those all went away on the 3f-1lo-3s and continued to decrease as the program continued. I actually thought the 3lo was her best jump and she didn’t get a single 3 for it. Heck that final 3z was glorious and got straight 2’s.

Makkachin · Dec 26, 2017

I have seen some skaters jump with their hands on their hips (I don't know if I've seen it in a triple jump though)

I'm intrigued by the discussion on whether arm variations actually increase GOE. It seems like +2's and +3's are being given out more often than they used to. Because of this, a well-performed jump on its own receives just about the same GOE as a well-performed jump with a Tano/Rippon variation. It's not as if positive GOE is automatically received if Tano/Rippon is used and other aspects of the jump aren't good. The question sort of becomes: Does adding a Tano/Rippon push what would be a +1 jump on a good day up to a +2, or a +2 jump to a +3? ....which is difficult if not impossible to determine.

I have nothing against Tano/Rippon on every jump but I personally would prefer to see other features, like difficult entry or doing something interesting with the landing edge, to add difficulty to/show superior control of the jump (therefore garnering higher GOE) rather than doing the same variation over and over (it's reminding me of when everyone was putting a Biellmann position in every spin, and the rules have thankfully changed to disallow this). A mixture of different arm variations besides Tano/Rippon like the ones in this thread within one program would be fun to see.

Arm Variations Other Than Tano and Rippon

drivingmissdaisy

Baron Vladimir

arewhyaen

Wilhelmina

katmari

charlotte14

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

charlotte14

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

WeakAnkles

charlotte14

Pasdedeux

charlotte14

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

charlotte14

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

charlotte14

ks777

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Makkachin

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