Wagner "furious" on scores

Imagine · Jan 6, 2018

bobbob said:
First paragraph is true--she doesn't have a chance. But the second paragraph doesn't make any sense. She BEAT Karen technically, it's her PCS that put her score below Karen's. And you yourself somewhat agree that Karen's PCS is not as strong as Ashley's.....so at least give Ashley equal PCS, which would have given her the win? How can you believe that she was lowballed and has stronger PCS than Karen, yet at the same time think that Karen should have still beaten her? Remember, they were only separated by 2.5 points, all of that coming from Karen's oddly higher PCS. Perhaps you think she is a little boastful about her abilities, which I guess is valid, but your analysis of the scoring is deeply confusing.

Okay, then it’s pretty strange to me how that turned out to be the case. Granted, me saying that Ashley was technically inferior to those ladies was just an opinioned statement based on what I personally observed. To me, it didn’t look like they were that close technically. I guess I didn’t notice whatever they deducted Chen on because tbh, I was still somewhere in La La Land celebrating Mirai’s moment. I don’t remember any glaring mistakes though. Didn’t she step out of a 3S and that’s it? Maybe they dinged her on other stuff, but it looked like she had really nice, big jumps. Way better spins than Ashley of course.

ask · Jan 6, 2018

evasorange said:
You are out here convinced that Ashley has zero skills and could be beating by any five year old at a public rink. Her record says differently of course, but you just don't want to hear it. I have no idea what you see when you watch Ashley skate but it's certainly not what most others see and it certainly isn't indicative of any reality past or present

Where did I say she is worse than 5yo? You are making these assumptions yourself.
She is more like a 6 or 7 in the skating skills scale. Which is lower than most junior girls who made to the jpgf. Of course she is better than a lot of juniors. Just because the judges gave her 8.5 doesn't mean she actually is an 8.5 kinda skater. Do you understand?

schizoanalyst · Jan 6, 2018

You can agree or disagree with Wagner, people will. But I just want to say it's really healthy that a sport as transparently corrupt and fallible as figure skating has fans that get so upset when an athlete (or coach, or choreographer, or commentator) voices their objections. This sport would be much better if every time a coach or athlete disagreed with a result, they called it out and explained explicitly why they disagreed.

iamchrislao · Jan 6, 2018

Agree! I watched the programs (both sp and fs) of the two (chen and wagner). I dont get the PCS of Chen (let's not even talk about Bradie's), seriously! Chen's FS was like some random, generic program with no theme/coherence whatsoever. I just did not get it at all! Love her jumps, though! but her tech was even lower so how the hell did she top wagner? Exactly! I think we can all forgive Wagner for expressing herself. Please! Let's not be hypocrites here. It's not ideal, could even be a mistake. But it's very forgivable. Ideally, she should have waited for others--her team, experts to express her thoughts or express misgivings about the scoring.

evasorange said:
The writing was on the wall in the sp when the judges gave Karen a 4 point lead even though they both had made similar mistakes. Actually the writing was on the wall at last years nationals when Ashley should have won but was beaten by Karen because of overlooked urs. They want Karen on the team over Ashley. I wish to God she hadn't popped that triple but it still probably wouldn't have mattered. The pcs is whack for all of them and I'm glad to see the judges get called out even though it will probably just hurt Ashley in the long run.

GrandmaCC · Jan 6, 2018

Please tell me the selection committee are sequestered away somewhere?
Ashley, SERIOUSLY!! Other people can hear you!! Other people including those who are writing those OG tickets.
Smile for the cameras and save this for your tell-all memoirs.

I SO want to know what Raf was thinking this past season in terms of strategy for his ladies. It’s seeming to have been a lot like “let’s turn them loose and see what happens”

Mariah has said only, oh, about a billion times this weekend, that she’s super super-duper nervous. Meanwhile, Ashley is confident enough to honestly expect a Nobel prize for her artistic abilities (which she may or may not display at Nationals, after Nationals, or not at all but WE ALL KNOW THEY’RE THERE GUYS!!! That counts!!).

Did it never occur to anyone - anyone at all on that team - to maybe mentally prep Mariah for this meet while kicking Ashley’s butt into gear just a little?
It seems like one girl went into the season and then this meet with not enough confidence, while the other had a tonne of bravado but not enough substance to let her walk the talk.
Why the heck a sports psych couldn’t have worked with Mariah big time while Raf gently (or not so) convinced Ashley of the benefits of deciding what to perform even slightly before the Olympic Year Nationals is just beyond me.

TCAngel18 · Jan 6, 2018

Ashley actually beat Karen in TES in the FS, but got hosed in PCS in comparison. It’s not the popped salchow that she is angry about, she even called out her technical deficiencies in the interview. The biggest issue, which I’ve hammered home about tonight ad nauseum, is that Internationally, That 130 score that Ashley got probably stays the same, maybe slips a slight bit down to a 127. Karen’s drops down to 116-120, max. Mostly due to PCS dropping down to earth.

yoloaxel · Jan 6, 2018

twirlingblades said:
She also got a level 3 on one spin and her step sequence, and < her lutz, so let’s not pretend like she skated lights out.

Making faces only gets you so far at this point, and I’m saying this as an Ashley fan.

THANK YOU. I love Ashley but this was not her best performance by far and she left so many points on the table, not only with the jumps. This outrage is ridiculous.

penguin · Jan 6, 2018

I'm a fan of Ashley, and I feel mildly like there were some PCS inconsistencies that uniquely disfavored her this time (though I actually agree with the final placements). And she has a right to express her thoughts. But I just wish that she could for once be a gracious loser, which I have never quite seen from her. Actually I haven't seen her be a gracious winner, either, but that's usually more forgivable since she's being positive then. (And I don't mean gracious as in hiding her thoughts. Just... more thoughtful and sportsmanlike, not always challenging or questioning the scores.)

Ophelia · Jan 6, 2018

It's Olympics year. I'd be furious too if I got hosed in PCS and missed out on an Olympics spot. I don't blame Wagner for dishing it to the judges.

Also, may I remind everyone that Wagner is a Worlds Silver Medalist. The only American lady who medalled in Worlds in recent years, and probably the only one who will medal at Worlds in years to come. I don't see Bradie, Mirai, or Karen on Worlds podium anytime soon.

Shayuki · Jan 6, 2018

It's quite fair in my opinion. The international judges have been giving her scores based on reputation, the American ones based on actual performance.

Ashley's performing, artistry, musicality just haven't been there at all this season. And the La La Land program that I now saw properly for the first time is just incredibly boring with no highlights. In my opinion, she even was overscored here. I'm not sure what happened to her but she shouldn't blame the judges if she suddenly in the course of a season loses her ability to perform.

Alchamei · Jan 6, 2018

Ask got banned? I mean, they were a bit agressive but that was nowhere close to be so bad that they would have to be banned...

pearly · Jan 6, 2018

Probably for continuously bashing a skater. I'm sure they'll be back under a different name.

megenta · Jan 6, 2018

Well, 4 years ago she benefitted from the usfs being able to promote their favorite candidate for the team however they wish, now someone else (most likely) does. If I remember correctly, they hadn't used the "body of work" argument before last year's nats, hence the backlash. Even if she was third this time, they could've left her out the team if they wanted to. It seems they didn't want to have to go there.

berry8 · Jan 6, 2018

Where I am ladies FS started today at 00.45 I woke up at 4.00 ( :shocked: ) for Mirai only.

I really dont think there is any kind of difference between Ashely and Karen: both of them have no possibility to get a medal at the OG (not that the other two have :slink:

)
Ashley is such a whiner though... Hope the committee won't give her the third spot (note: I am saying this only because of her arrogant reaction).

qwerty1195 · Jan 6, 2018

Alchamei said:
Ask got banned? I mean, they were a bit agressive but that was nowhere close to be so bad that they would have to be banned...

the person also had things said about Gracie Gold. I thought the ban was right given the person was also aggressive towards other posters and has been a really toxic presence on this forum.

Procrastinator · Jan 6, 2018

NAOTMAA said:
but it got her VERY VERY far (a world silver!) so I can't blame her for being surprised that it suddenly didn't work when it has been for quite a while.

Ashley's skating has been for a number of years lacking in transitions and her choreography could be summed up as "mugging for the camera" with the over the top facial expressions and corny head and shoulder rolls. Despite this the international judges still marked her high in the PCS area. I mean she wasn't the only one this week shocked by the marks, everybody online was saying it

Exactly. They Plushenko'd her. In 2010, the judges finally started marking Plushenko's TR score harshly out of nowhere in Vancouver. Was it deserved? Sure, but the skater and his team had no fair notice, when the judges had been consistently judging a certain way.

I don't know if USFS had a judges' meeting or something where they said "hammer" transitions, but both Wagner and Mirai were hit hard. Mirai had a technical cushion and status as the sentimental favorite that prevented it from doing too much harm.

Blades of Passion · Jan 6, 2018

I think Ashley deserved the highest PCS of all the Ladies in the LP.

I also think she should have finished even lower overall - 5th place, behind Angela Wang.

Viiktoruu · Jan 6, 2018

I expected Ashley to get more PCS prior to the competition and was quite surprised to see her PCS when I woke up (Europe - didn't stay up till 3 am to watch), but seeing the actual performance... I think she was scored fairly: there was no interesting transitions, the jumps were not timed well to the music, there was barely any one-foot skating, gaining and varying speed was nowhere near effortless, the entrances into the jumps were painfully long, and she didn't even have that intensity in her emotions that she usually does to gain higher composition.
I'm sorry to see that, I hoped she'd do better, but she wasn't really underscored IMO.

That said - what's surprising is that she WAS scored fairly, at nationals you'd expect a lot of overscoring, and Mirai's and Bradie's PCS were clearly inflated... So IDK. :shrug:

labgoat · Jan 6, 2018

I wonder how Shae-Lynn feels about the pcs of A professionally designed program being scored less than the pcs of a self choreographed program. It does not say much for getting a pro to do your program design. I would be very discouraged if I was Shae-Lynn.

Procrastinator · Jan 6, 2018

Viiktoruu said:
That said - what's surprising is that she WAS scored fairly, at nationals you'd expect a lot of overscoring, and Mirai's and Bradie's PCS were clearly inflated... So IDK.

That's exactly it. She wasn't underscored, but everyone else was a bit inflated. It's a bit similar to Yuna in 2014. She was absolutely scored fairly, but Sotnikova had her PCS inflated quite a bit.

Wagner "furious" on scores

Imagine

ask

Match Penalty

schizoanalyst

iamchrislao

GrandmaCC

TCAngel18

yoloaxel

penguin

Ophelia

Shayuki

Alchamei

pearly

megenta

berry8

qwerty1195

Procrastinator

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Viiktoruu

labgoat

Thinking about art & life...

Procrastinator

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