opinion about the coach | Golden Skate

opinion about the coach

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
As a new skating mom, I need some opinions about my situation with my daughter’s coach and would appreciate your suggestion.

My daughter K started skating late, but she is a very quick learner. It’s not said by me, every coach who taught her said so. We didn’t choose her coach. Instead, she chose K. She was teaching K a group lesson at that time and asked us to start private lesson with her. She is an experienced staff in our club. All coaches stop to say hi to her in the rink. You can tell she is an important person. But she has few students maybe because of her health.

As I said, K is a quick learner and she starts late. So I (and she) hope she can focus and try to go as high level as she can, as soon as she can. Don’t think I am the one who pushes. No, she is natural. K started ballet since 4 and dances in competitions now. She enjoys it. She also has other hobbies. You know, the type of energetic kids, enjoying challenge. Honestly, I didn’t expect her to be professional or go to national competition. But I honestly wish she can reach her potential.

When K finished Freestyle 6, I asked the coach when she can take Pre-Pre MIF. She was unhappy. In the beginning, she said 2 months later. When it’s close, she said 2 months later again. At that time, K was very ready. She kept saying “I don’t want my students to feel hurt from failure. I want to be 100% sure.” Then we waited another 2 months. So in total, it took 4 months for K to take Pre-Pre MIF after she finished freestyle 6. While I know many kids do it when they finish freestyle2. Of course, all judges’ comments are great. K looked much better than other kids who tested there. A couple of moms asked what test K took and surprised she was taking Pre-Pre MIF.

Ok, next step is Pre MIF. The coach can tell that I was not very happy about the 1st test. So she taught K Pre MIF right after the 1st test. Then K got ready after about 1 month. Of course, she’s also learning other jump and spins. The coach said, she could take the test after 6 months. I asked why if she’s ready. The coach said “The goal is not to pass. She could do better.” OK, I agreed. We waited for another 2 months. When K asked me, I asked the coach again. The coach said: “I don’t want you to focus on testing. She should have other fun in skating.” Why did she think K has no fun? She really enjoyed. And she enjoyed testing. Anyway, since then, she kept telling us to practice less. We used to have lessons 2/week and skate 5d/wk. Later she said we don’t need that much practice. I never expect a coach to say that! Anyway, we ended with Pre MIV 6 month after PrePre MIF. Again K got all good comments from judges, nothing marked as “need improvement”.

Now I think we should work for PrePre Free Skate. K will turn 12 this year. But I am more frustrated. She never mention the free skate test or how is K's Axel going. All she repeats is "Learn to be patient in skating.".

From the beginning to now, she asked us to join EVERY show in the club. K had fun the first time, later she was not very interested. So I want to choose one or two to go. But she insisted us to participate all. Also, she told K many times, skating takes long time.

My feeling is that she wants us to slow down. But I don’t understand why. I don’t want to comment on her philosophy of skating. I just want to know, are the schedules for the first couple of tests normal? Is what the coach did common? Am I expecting too much? Should we fit in this slow schedule or look for faster pace?
Ask your daughter if she feels ready to test. If she is ready to test the next level and the coach says another six months, get a different coach at the club, who doesn't push to test before their skaters are ready but also is does not hold back their skaters from testing either. Does your daughter want to compete recreationally, or does she have dreams of going the competitive stream? Talk with your daughter to find out her wishes. After Preliminary the learning curve slows down because the elements tend to get more difficult to learn.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
As a new skating mom, I need some opinions about my situation with my daughter’s coach and would appreciate your suggestion.

My daughter K started skating late, but she is a very quick learner. It’s not said by me, every coach who taught her said so. We didn’t choose her coach. Instead, she chose K. She was teaching K a group lesson at that time and asked us to start private lesson with her. She is an experienced staff in our club. All coaches stop to say hi to her in the rink. You can tell she is an important person. But she has few students maybe because of her health.

As I said, K is a quick learner and she starts late. So I (and she) hope she can focus and try to go as high level as she can, as soon as she can. Don’t think I am the one who pushes. No, she is natural. K started ballet since 4 and dances in competitions now. She enjoys it. She also has other hobbies. You know, the type of energetic kids, enjoying challenge. Honestly, I didn’t expect her to be professional or go to national competition. But I honestly wish she can reach her potential.

When K finished Freestyle 6, I asked the coach when she can take Pre-Pre MIF. She was unhappy. In the beginning, she said 2 months later. When it’s close, she said 2 months later again. At that time, K was very ready. She kept saying “I don’t want my students to feel hurt from failure. I want to be 100% sure.” Then we waited another 2 months. So in total, it took 4 months for K to take Pre-Pre MIF after she finished freestyle 6. While I know many kids do it when they finish freestyle2. Of course, all judges’ comments are great. K looked much better than other kids who tested there. A couple of moms asked what test K took and surprised she was taking Pre-Pre MIF.

Ok, next step is Pre MIF. The coach can tell that I was not very happy about the 1st test. So she taught K Pre MIF right after the 1st test. Then K got ready after about 1 month. Of course, she’s also learning other jump and spins. The coach said, she could take the test after 6 months. I asked why if she’s ready. The coach said “The goal is not to pass. She could do better.” OK, I agreed. We waited for another 2 months. When K asked me, I asked the coach again. The coach said: “I don’t want you to focus on testing. She should have other fun in skating.” Why did she think K has no fun? She really enjoyed. And she enjoyed testing. Anyway, since then, she kept telling us to practice less. We used to have lessons 2/week and skate 5d/wk. Later she said we don’t need that much practice. I never expect a coach to say that! Anyway, we ended with Pre MIV 6 month after PrePre MIF. Again K got all good comments from judges, nothing marked as “need improvement”.

Now I think we should work for PrePre Free Skate. K will turn 12 this year. But I am more frustrated. She never mention the free skate test or how is K's Axel going. All she repeats is "Learn to be patient in skating.".

From the beginning to now, she asked us to join EVERY show in the club. K had fun the first time, later she was not very interested. So I want to choose one or two to go. But she insisted us to participate all. Also, she told K many times, skating takes long time.

My feeling is that she wants us to slow down. But I don’t understand why. I don’t want to comment on her philosophy of skating. I just want to know, are the schedules for the first couple of tests normal? Is what the coach did common? Am I expecting too much? Should we fit in this slow schedule or look for faster pace?


As a former competitive elite, and now a pro, I can see it both ways. First, your coach may be trying to slow her down because way too many skaters rush through their tests to pass and don’t acquire the real hallmarks of the sport (great deep smooth edges, proper techniques and stylings, etc). So she may be wanting her to focus more on that.

The other way I see is it is, she may be slowing her down so she doesn’t progress quickly and past her point of being able to coach her, which means she’d lose her to a higher ranked coach that can. Without knowing the coach (and no you don’t have to mention who), I can’t form an opinion on that for sure.

The lack of wanting her to practice though is a huge red flag for me. Practice never hurts. Yes, you can over do it, but it doesn’t sound like that is what your child is doing at all.

Sit down and have a chat with your daughter and see what she wants to do. Then perhaps have a chat with your clubs skating director and then with coach.

Good luck.
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Ask your daughter if she feels ready to test. If she is ready to test the next level and the coach says another six months, get a different coach at the club, who doesn't push to test before their skaters are ready but also is does not hold back their skaters from testing either. Does your daughter want to compete recreationally, or does she have dreams of going the competitive stream? Talk with your daughter to find out her wishes. After Preliminary the learning curve slows down because the elements tend to get more difficult to learn.

My daughter wants to compete. I think competing recreationally/locally is more realistic. We can't tell whether she is ready or not until the coach tell us what's the test requires. But now she doesn't tell me anymore. She doesn't talk about test to me at all.

BTW, is changing coach normal? Because she is experienced and respected in the rink, if I talk to other coaches to look for chance, will it annoy her and have bad influence on my daughter?
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
As a former competitive elite, and now a pro, I can see it both ways. First, your coach may be trying to slow her down because way too many skaters rush through their tests to pass and don’t acquire the real hallmarks of the sport (great deep smooth edges, proper techniques and stylings, etc). So she may be wanting her to focus more on that.

The other way I see is it is, she may be slowing her down so she doesn’t progress quickly and past her point of being able to coach her, which means she’d lose her to a higher ranked coach that can. Without knowing the coach (and no you don’t have to mention who), I can’t form an opinion on that for sure.

The lack of wanting her to practice though is a huge red flag for me. Practice never hurts. Yes, you can over do it, but it doesn’t sound like that is what your child is doing at all.

Sit down and have a chat with your daughter and see what she wants to do. Then perhaps have a chat with your clubs skating director and then with coach.

Good luck.


Yes, I try to understand her thinking too. Maybe both sides has some points.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
BTW, is changing coach normal? Because she is experienced and respected in the rink, if I talk to other coaches to look for chance, will it annoy her and have bad influence on my daughter?

Yes! But as a parent it is very stressful.

What I do is line up the new coach first. Then I tell the old coach that we are ending the relationship. The old coach then "releases" the skater before the new coach takes over. "Releases" is probably too strong of a word - it is actually confirming that no money is still owed.

Whenever we switch, it seems that my daughter makes a huge boost in a short amount of time. From what I hear, that boost is common.
 

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
My daughter wants to compete. I think competing recreationally/locally is more realistic. We can't tell whether she is ready or not until the coach tell us what's the test requires. But now she doesn't tell me anymore. She doesn't talk about test to me at all.

BTW, is changing coach normal? Because she is experienced and respected in the rink, if I talk to other coaches to look for chance, will it annoy her and have bad influence on my daughter?
Login with your daughter's member number on your country's figure skating association website and look up the next level up of tests your daughter is working on now. It's not good to be kept in the dark for you or your daughter.
 

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
My daughter wants to compete. I think competing recreationally/locally is more realistic. We can't tell whether she is ready or not until the coach tell us what's the test requires. But now she doesn't tell me anymore. She doesn't talk about test to me at all.

BTW, is changing coach normal? Because she is experienced and respected in the rink, if I talk to other coaches to look for chance, will it annoy her and have bad influence on my daughter?
Is changing coaches normal? It depends on what your daughter's dreams are. You're the Mom and the boss who hires the coach for your daughter. Is her coach doing the job to you and your daughter's satisfaction?
 

jf12

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
My moves coach is a very old fashioned coach who does school figures, and demands a lot more than what's on the test, before she allows us to take the test. It is partially because our local panels are very tough, and if you're 20% over the standard, you'll pass even if you have a bad day.

With the lower level tests, it's common to see people get away with things, and it just takes them longer to pass the higher level tests. In short, I don't think that holding up for a couple months on how long it takes her to test preliminary (as long as she is still improving those moves during that time), will hold her back on how long it takes to pass senior moves. Every single move in preliminary comes back later on at a higher level, with a higher passing standard - preliminary crossovers and juvenile crossovers, for example.

However, like Icerabbit said, a couple things really stick out. My coach never would say, after I learned the moves, that you can take the test in x months. She would say, you can take the test in the next signup after I see you run the whole test to a certain standard - and the more you practice, the quicker you'll get there. It seems kind of disingenuous for her to drag out the timeline for the test, and ALSO not encourage her to practice as much!!
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Does this coach have other students who are testing at higher levels and competing at USFS levels beyond learn to skate?

If that's what your daughter's goals are, she should be working with a coach who is experienced in those areas. If this is not the right coach for her goals, then find someone who is.

If yes, then, as others have mentioned above, it may be that this coach is trying to establish a firm technical foundation at the lower levels rather than rushing through the tests only to get stuck later on.

Also, skaters who are interested in competing usually test several levels ahead in MIF before testing freestyle because they want to have strong skating skills for that level, and usually to be attempting at least the average jump content for that level, not the minimum required on the test.

Some coaches who aim to build strong competitors want their students to take their time learning skills correctly, passing tests with higher than the minimum standards, and competing at levels where they will look strong for their level (but not so strong it appears that they're sandbagging).

However, coaches who are interested in building strong competitors for the long term by taking things slow at the beginning usually do not spend a lot of time on show programs and usually do want their skaters to increase practice time. So it's worth checking out what your coaches other students seem to be focusing on, and if necessary asking her directly when she thinks your daughter should aim to enter a no-test or pre-preliminary competition, if that's what your daughter is most interested in.

Meanwhile, you might also want to get to know other parents at your club with slightly more advanced skaters and ask how much time their kids spent on each test, how long they stayed at each competitive level, which coaches seem most focus on excellence or on getting out in competition often or passing tests as quickly as possible or performing in shows, and figure out which of the local coaches have goals (your current coach or someone else) might align better with your daughter's.

Don't just listen to one other parent, who might have their own agenda, but get a several different perspectives and make your own decision.

You also might want to get to know the test chair at your club and volunteer to help out at test sessions, which would give you a chance to see the general standards of what passes and doesn't pass at each level, maybe get to know some judges and get some general feedback on what they're looking for. (But don't bombard them with questions when they're busy judging or trying to relax.)

If there is a nearby competition coming up in a few months, tell your coach that your daughter would be interested in preparing to compete there. (If it's your own club's competition, you might also want to volunteer to help plan it, or at least volunteer to check in skaters or some similar task for a couple of hours on competition day.)

The more you get involved with your local skating community, the better sense you'll have of how things are usually done, what kinds of options and approaches are available, and how your coach fits in, rather than relying on one person for all your information about skating.
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Let me explain a little. She didn't ALWAYS discourage K from practicing. She only did it when we struggled for Pre MIF timeline. At that time, I believed K was ready. She said we worked too hard and should rest more. After the test, she still asked K to practice more.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
My daughter wants to compete. I think competing recreationally/locally is more realistic. We can't tell whether she is ready or not until the coach tell us what's the test requires. But now she doesn't tell me anymore. She doesn't talk about test to me at all.

BTW, is changing coach normal? Because she is experienced and respected in the rink, if I talk to other coaches to look for chance, will it annoy her and have bad influence on my daughter?

Yes, changing coaches is normal to find a coach that has your daughters goals in mind and a similar mindset to her to her goals and in decent time.

Good luck!
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
I'm a skating mom, and I can provide you my perspective. I think it's relatively normal to switch coaches. Fortunately we didn't have to go through that.

I know several families who had to make that decision to change coaches because the coach their skater started with wasn't the right fit. They told me how hard it was, and why they're making the decision (some with lots of hesitations and some took years before they made the switch). Some stories are heart-wrenching, but the families made the change because they felt it was better overall.

Are you open to having a 2nd coach or a focused MIF coach? We got a separate MIF coach after my daughter passed her Prelim MIF (at the suggestion of my daughter's first coach), and I really liked that. The coaches' roles became clear cut, and my daughter progressed quickly. The free skate coach was for only for free skate stuff like jumps and spins, and the MIF coach only taught MIF (so scheduling a test session was an easy subject to discuss with the MIF coach). Later my daughter changed to ice dancing, and there's no hard feelings among any of her coaches.

I personally think 6 month is normal for Prelim MIF, but it is long for a low-level MIF test if your skater wants to test sooner. I've known skaters to pass Prelim MIF much quicker than 6 months when they set their mind on it.

The first time my daughter had a "retry" after a MIF test, she balled her eyes out, and I was floored by that reaction from her. This was despite her MIF coach warning us that her chance of passing was iffy since my daughter made a mistake on the MIF test. Looking back, that was probably one of the best learning experience ever. My daughter has had several retries for MIF or dance test since then, but she is so resilient now that she is just like... ehhh... okay... I'll do better next time. I believe that if the skater is realistic about the possible test outcomes, then he/she will be okay.
 

VegMom

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
What does your daughter say? Does she want to change coaches?

Is there a chance she communicating different things to you than to her coach? I mean, could you have a perception that your daughter wants to advance more quickly and compete whereas coach has the perception that your daughter wants figure skating to be more just for recreation?
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Does this coach have other students who are testing at higher levels and competing at USFS levels beyond learn to skate?

If that's what your daughter's goals are, she should be working with a coach who is experienced in those areas. If this is not the right coach for her goals, then find someone who is.

If yes, then, as others have mentioned above, it may be that this coach is trying to establish a firm technical foundation at the lower levels rather than rushing through the tests only to get stuck later on.

Also, skaters who are interested in competing usually test several levels ahead in MIF before testing freestyle because they want to have strong skating skills for that level, and usually to be attempting at least the average jump content for that level, not the minimum required on the test.

Some coaches who aim to build strong competitors want their students to take their time learning skills correctly, passing tests with higher than the minimum standards, and competing at levels where they will look strong for their level (but not so strong it appears that they're sandbagging).

However, coaches who are interested in building strong competitors for the long term by taking things slow at the beginning usually do not spend a lot of time on show programs and usually do want their skaters to increase practice time. So it's worth checking out what your coaches other students seem to be focusing on, and if necessary asking her directly when she thinks your daughter should aim to enter a no-test or pre-preliminary competition, if that's what your daughter is most interested in.

Meanwhile, you might also want to get to know other parents at your club with slightly more advanced skaters and ask how much time their kids spent on each test, how long they stayed at each competitive level, which coaches seem most focus on excellence or on getting out in competition often or passing tests as quickly as possible or performing in shows, and figure out which of the local coaches have goals (your current coach or someone else) might align better with your daughter's.

Don't just listen to one other parent, who might have their own agenda, but get a several different perspectives and make your own decision.

You also might want to get to know the test chair at your club and volunteer to help out at test sessions, which would give you a chance to see the general standards of what passes and doesn't pass at each level, maybe get to know some judges and get some general feedback on what they're looking for. (But don't bombard them with questions when they're busy judging or trying to relax.)

If there is a nearby competition coming up in a few months, tell your coach that your daughter would be interested in preparing to compete there. (If it's your own club's competition, you might also want to volunteer to help plan it, or at least volunteer to check in skaters or some similar task for a couple of hours on competition day.)

The more you get involved with your local skating community, the better sense you'll have of how things are usually done, what kinds of options and approaches are available, and how your coach fits in, rather than relying on one person for all your information about skating.


She does have a couple of students of higher level, but no one competes.

Anyway, Your suggestion is great. I am a working mom and not involved a lot. I should change and get more information.
 

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
What does your daughter say? Does she want to change coaches?

Is there a chance she communicating different things to you than to her coach? I mean, could you have a perception that your daughter wants to advance more quickly and compete whereas coach has the perception that your daughter wants figure skating to be more just for recreation?

Well the coach never talks about it with us. I don't feel that she cares. My feeling is that she knows where to go and we should all follow her. If we have different ideas, she won't say it directly. But she will try to make us back to her way. But that's just my feeling.
 

treesprite

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Do you and your daughter have very open communication with one another? I am asking, because sometimes parent-child communication behaviors affect how well skaters communicate with their coaches, then people think there is something wrong with the coach. The other day when I was working at the rink, my coach came to me with her young student about her blades, but the skater and mother were both very non-communicative. Then after the student left, the coach came back to me and told me she has trouble finding out what is going on with the skater's equipment and how the skater is thinking and feeling, because a lack of communication between the skater and mother has taught the skater to not communicate effectively with other adults (including the coach). The coach said the lack of communication is making it difficult to teach the skater anything. This is a top-notch past Olympic coach, one of the most experienced in our region, and even she is having difficulties in this situation. So please talk with your daughter, make sure she is comfortable expressing herself with adults and teachers. The coach needs to hear your daughter's desires and needs directly from your daughter, so the coach and your daughter can effectively negotiate and navigate the course of your daughter's participation and advancement in figure skating. Your daughter may be much more satisfied with the coach if she feels the coach understands her and has considered all possible factors, rather than just saying yes and no.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
I think both you and your daughter need to be on the same page as to what she wants (and want you are willng to do). As the parent of a 12-year old girl, I recognize that that is no easy task. Then once that is figured out, then you need to make sure the coach is working towards these same goals.

My daughter is just completing her 9th year or skating so I have observed a lot of different coaching styles over the years. Some coaches believe a skater needs to get through all the MIF tests ASAP and other coaches believe that skaters should taken their time to completing them. Having said that, pass rates for MIF depend on the level tested. Pre-pre is more about "encouraging" skaters into the system so it has an extremely high pass rate. From there, pass rates drop off. My daughter floundered in pre while many of her friends sailed through. But then my daughter sailed through pre-Juv and many of her friends floundered.

Different coaches again have different philosophies about competitions. Some say do as many as possible so a skaters get used to them. Others say don't waste you time and money on low level competitions.

My point - there are lots of differing views and you everyone on you team needs to be on the same page and right I'm not 100% sure any two of you all are on the same page.

Another point worth mentioning. Not all coaches work well for all age groups so you need look at how personalities fit. And just because a coach does / does not work personality-wise now does not mean in another year, the same will be true.
 
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