Article mentions Michelle's back pain

Lucy25 · Oct 14, 2004

I know Lavender posted this information in the other thread, but I thought some might not see it. Her back pain is given as a reason for dropping out of Skate Canada.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041014.whali14/BNStory/Sports/

hockeyfan228 · Oct 14, 2004

It doesn't make much sense to me that Kwan wouldn't say, "I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP," instead of "This strategy for skipping GP has worked for me in the past." The only logical reason would be to hide the extent of an injury, but what are the chances that that wouldn't get out anyway, like in the Globe and Mail article (source unattributed).

lavender · Oct 14, 2004

I don't think Michelle's the type to mention an injury or how bad it is even when she has to wear a cast on her foot. It took her some time to realize she shouldn't skate when she had a injured toe.

Mathman · Oct 14, 2004

This article is worded in a funny way. It seems to say, of course we understand and sympathize with Michelle's decision, what with her well-documented back problems and all. But what's this guy Plushenko trying to pull?

BTW and OT, the Toronto Globe and Mail gives the best ice skating coverage of any daily newspaper around. I pick one up at the bookstore every Sunday, since the Detroit papers hardly treat ice skating as a sport at all, especially the Detroit News

Hockeyfan, I don't think the two statements:

"I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP,"

and

"This strategy for skipping GP has worked for me in the past."

are incompatible or all that far apart. What has worked for her in the past is reducing wear and tear on her body and reducing the risk of injury and muscle strain by cutting back on her performance schedule. Yes, she could have given a longer statement to the USFSA. But in retrospect, we should have paid more attention to statements like this one from Golden Skate's own archives (October 2, at Campbell's):

"I haven't done a layback in a few weeks [due to the pain]. Here, tonight, I had to do the layback, and 'Whoa!' Its hard with the new system to be doing them because you have to do like four different positions. You're grabbing your leg, twisting and moving this way and that. It takes a long time to get used to."

I think saying "Whoa, that hurts!" is pretty forthcoming on Michelle's part, and should put an end to silly speculation about conspiracy theories and ulterior motives.

As for doing the Marshall's event in December, she can take it easy on her spins and continue to rest and heal.

Mathman

tharrtell · Oct 15, 2004

I hope it's not too serious that it keeps her out beyone the GP. I read somewhere that she'd been having back problems since 2001/2002. Does anyone know if that's true??

Vash01 · Oct 15, 2004

I hope Michelle's injury heals soon. The article mentions Plushenko's injury but it does not sound like the writer thinks Plushenko's withdrawal may be due to injury too. In fact Plushenko and Mishin have been quite clear about why Evgeni is not going to do the GP. Interestingly, this writer has not read it, it seems.

Joesitz (RIP) · Oct 15, 2004

hockeyfan228 said:
It doesn't make much sense to me that Kwan wouldn't say, "I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP," instead of "This strategy for skipping GP has worked for me in the past." The only logical reason would be to hide the extent of an injury, but what are the chances that that wouldn't get out anyway, like in the Globe and Mail article (source unattributed).

I don't think Kwan actually said this: "I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP," That is written in quotes, too, but not in the press release. We are putting words into Kwans mouth.

As Sasha kept her shingles pain quiet, MK did not want to make an issue of her pain. I applaud both of them for not looking for sympathy. Plush's pain gets full coverage for months at a time while he continues to skate competitions and shows.

Oh, the nitpicking of it all.

Joe

kemy · Oct 15, 2004

Joesitz said:
I don't think Kwan actually said this: "I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP," That is written in quotes, too, but not in the press release. We are putting words into Kwans mouth.
Joe

Well...the original poster never said the Michelle actually said that. The original poster asked why DIDN'T Michelle just say that instead of giving the reason that she did.

lavender · Oct 15, 2004

I have back problems and they come and go. You never know when they are going to come. My cousin has them and she has to skip work those days. One day it's pain and you can't walk and then the next you're ok but maybe a little sore. Days, months go back and you're fine then all of sudden your back goes out. My mom had a pull in her back and she had to take a leave of absence for 3 months. She's never had a problem like that and she hates taking time off of work. Back pain is serious.

Jaana · Oct 15, 2004

Sorry to hear about Michelle´s injury! Not that it matters, but it seems to me that the info about it came only after she had pulled off from GP and there had been countless postings about the matter on different forums?

Anyway, I think it is not of advantage for Michelle to compete in coming Worlds without any experience at all with CoP. Her competitors had the opportunity to test the system at GP already in past season and will continue gathering more experience this season.

Marjaana

Ladskater · Oct 15, 2004

Skating with any injury is painful, and back pain is especially difficult. I suffer from chronic sciatica problems, and it effects everything I do. I have not skated much over the last few years because of it. I think Michelle is wise not to over tax herself. She is a seasoned competitor and knows the game. All the best to her.

attyfan · Oct 15, 2004

Kwan's Back Pain

First, IIRC, the article in this forum's archives had quotes from MK regarding her back pain. Second, I doubt that Kwan would get any valuable feed back from teh GP series if she can't do the elements. Reading the CoP would tell her that the layback she did at Campbell's probably would not score very high, so if she can't do the more difficult ones, she wouldn't get the kind of information (such as whether her new spins are Levels 1, 2, or 3) that she needs.

hockeyfan228 · Oct 15, 2004

Joesitz said:
I don't think Kwan actually said this: "I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP," That is written in quotes, too, but not in the press release. We are putting words into Kwans mouth.

The article was putting words into Kwan's mouth. There is no attribution or quote for the assertion in the article. It is printed as fact.

Joesitz (RIP) · Oct 15, 2004

hockeyfan228 said:
The article was putting words into Kwan's mouth. There is no attribution or quote for the assertion in the article. It is printed as fact.

Where? Please copy the quote as exactly what she said and not what the article concluded what she said. I could have paraphrased what the aritcle said about the withdrawal without using quotation marks.

Joe

hockeyfan228 · Oct 15, 2004

Joesitz said:
Where? Please copy the quote as exactly what she said and not what the article concluded what she said. I could have paraphrased what the aritcle said about the withdrawal without using quotation marks.

Joe

My post said,

It doesn't make much sense to me that Kwan wouldn't say, "I'm pulling out of the GP series because I tested my back trying the layback position in a combo spin at Campbell's, and found I'm too injured to do all eight revolutions in the SP," instead of "This strategy for skipping GP has worked for me in the past."

[emphasis added]. In other words, if the article is correct, why --hypothetically -- wouldn't she give the reason in the article, which I paraphrased as an alternative quote, just as I paraphrased what she did say. Certainly you could have chosen to paraphrase the article without using quotation marks, but that wasn't my choice.

While the article states as fact that the reason Kwan pulled out is because of a back injury, Globe and Mail lists no source, either from Kwan, a Kwan doctor, or a member of the Kwan camp. The article did not say, "it is likely she pulled out because of a back injury, based on her comments after Campbell's" or "we believe that she pulled out because of a back injury, based on her comments after Campbells." The quote from the article is,

The American star has been unable to do the layback spin that is a required element in the short program and has decided she's not up to competing at this time.

Mathman · Oct 15, 2004

Hockeyfan, I agree that it is uncharacteristic of the Globe and Mail to make such a terse announcement without follow-up quotes from the principals.

About skating injuries in general, we know that jumping causes a lot of ankle injuries and that long-term training of jumps is hell on the hips. Does spinning carry inherent risks of back problems?

Stephane Lambiel said recently (in Spotlight on Skating magazine -- OT, don't forget to enter the GS Skate America predictions contest here to win a free subscription!):

"It is a Swiss tradition to be a spinner...Right now I feel pain in my back when I do spins, so I cannot do as many spins as I'd like, but I do enjoy spinning."

Sasha Cohen lost a whole season to lower back problems, but I don't know whether her condition was aggravated specifically by spins or not.

Mathman

Lucy25 · Oct 15, 2004

Mathman said:
Sasha Cohen lost a whole season to lower back problems, but I don't know whether her condition was aggravated specifically by spins or not.

Mathman

This brings up a question I have been meaning to ask. I guess I am asking it to the skaters out there, if Michelle's back has been strained because of practicing new layback positions, which part of the back would it be? It seems to me that it would not be the same kind of injury brought on by twisting in jumps, but I really don't know. Anyone?

SkateFan4Life · Oct 15, 2004

lavender said:
I don't think Michelle's the type to mention an injury or how bad it is even when she has to wear a cast on her foot. It took her some time to realize she shouldn't skate when she had a injured toe.

I agree with you. Michelle seems to be a private person, and she doesn't want to dramatize her back injury. Remember her toe stress fracture that hampered her at Skate Canada in the fall of 1997? She fell in her final move, got up, and realized that she was injured. She dropped out of the rest of the GP events, and it was doubtful that she would be able to compete at the 1998 US Nationals.
As we all know, Michelle gave one of the greatest performances at Nationals, with a slew of 6.0s for her short and long programs. So much for skating with an injury. The show must go on. Good luck to you, Michelle. Heal quickly, and we all expect to see you compete at the 2006 Olympics!

Piel · Oct 15, 2004

Lucy25 said:
This brings up a question I have been meaning to ask. I guess I am asking it to the skaters out there, if Michelle's back has been strained because of practicing new layback positions, which part of the back would it be? It seems to me that it would not be the same kind of injury brought on by twisting in jumps, but I really don't know. Anyone?

ALL parts of your back are involved in the layback position. Add to that nerves to the arms and legs that can have pressure on them from a back injury. The layback spin not only uses the back, but also the arms and legs. Especially with low back injuries sometime moving the legs even baby steps is painful if not impossible. In jumping if the use of the arms and legs are limited in anyway it will effect the ability to jump.

Arch your back and then try moving your arms and legs in the various positions you see in skating. :eek:

show 42 · Oct 15, 2004

If I can throw my back out brushing my teeth, then I'm sure bending your back to the point of snapping it like a wishbone would certainly cause lingering pain...42

Article mentions Michelle's back pain

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