2018 Europeans Ladies FS | Page 96 | Golden Skate

2018 Europeans Ladies FS

GoddessMinerva

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
I just laugh at her videos because they are so childish, and she is so obsessed and delusional. The one about Ashley Wagner was hilarious. Despite the fact that she is just a delusional hater, I do agree with her basic premise that Medvedeva is overscored

I saw the one about the ISU and thought the criticism itself isn't unwarranted, but I didn't see what they were really about until I saw one of their videos from this week, which was a gleefully celebrating critical commentary which is nastiness not criticism. It's not even accurate, they(and their too eager followers which to me is worse) are projecting their own bias onto the commentators who were just doing their job properly.
 

ramed

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Country
Russia
Loena H is a young artist without a 3-3... I can foresee her on the European podium once Carolina will retire
Loena is a nice girl and easily deserves my sympathy. The problem is, without 3-3 she'd be unable to qualify for the last Russian nationals (18 best skaters). And she's not Caro to get high scores for just being Caro. So as long as Russia keeps 3 slots, Loena's podium chances are kinda slim. (And btw, I really love Caro and it's not her fault being judged that way.)
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
And yet, 20 years ago the sport was just as competitive, just as interesting, just as exciting to watch, just as emotionally engaging as it is today. I think the same an be said back when Karen Magnussen, Janet Lynn and Beatrix Schuba were duking it out at the 1972 Olympics, going double jump for double jump.

No doubt about it. The problem, well, "the problem" is when some people try to impose examples like Tara as the golden standard speculating how "the sport is dead now". The sports is moving forward at full throttle both in men and women. Neither of former champions would be able to beat the current ones no matter how many times "missing...." is uttered.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Step sequences were a required element in the SP under 6.0 so they weren't non-existent. I much preferred the fast and dramatic step sequences of skaters like Yagudin and Michelle Kwan to the labored and twisty-turny ones under IJS. I also miss beautiful arabesque spirals held for more that two second, classic layback (no Biellman), scratch spins, held-out positions and programs that had an emotional impact.[/QUOTE]

:thumbsup: Although fortunately, we have still have some. For me, Wagner, Rippon, Fernandez, Papadakis/Cizeron, Savchenko/Massot are some who purposely hearken back to those days and make sure that an emotional impact is as high priority as the technique that serves the program. And I'll add Nathan Chen, especially with his Nemesis SP. As of this week-end, I'm also adding Dmitri Aliev. It's great to see some younger skaters committed to the emotional quality. I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are off the top of my head.
 

Ares

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Country
Poland
It's weird, right? Michelle Kwan also had a horrible flutz, yet people love her so much... Yet they constantly complain about Medvedeva's flutz. Double standards.



Michelle's lutz was not her best jump, her initially deep outside edge was getting shallower on the take-off instead of getting deeper or staying firm but most of the time she was ending on (shallow) outside edge unlike Medvedeva who most of the time has clear as day inside edge on the take off and some other mechanics of the jump itself distorted. Sometimes even there's flutz from deep inside edge from her - it's so messy, hardly comparable to Michelle if you ask me. Out of these two it is only Evgenia who is a terrible flutzer.

It does not even look like Evgenia tries hard really anymore, they turn the blind eye anyway. It looks like her flip if your memory and perception will omit slightly different steps proceeding it ... one can even suspect that she knowingly goes for flip in her lutz spot. Lipnitskaya called her lutz ... flip some time ago so I guess it's not outside the realm of possibility that there is something like that. We know about planned jump thing content so they - Tech panel- can assume mindlessly that this is her lutz after all without double checking when tech spec. calls the element in real time. Hiding problematic jump also helps if you do it far from their camera, but many other skaters are doing it too.

Moreover in this era in which edge where edge calls and deductions are supposed to be treated seriously
(as written down) they're making a joke from this sport when they can't even stick to it and selectively applying it.
 

begin

Medalist
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Idk if this has been discussed yet but does anyone else hate Alina's tutu? I feel like is just exacerbates her junior-ness.

I'm surprised the channel is still going. If that's not hate speech I don't know what is.

I was just searching for Evgenia's SP when those videos popped up w the results. God, I remember getting into arguments w them in the YT comment sections YEARS ago.

But while they may be a demented individual, they're not targeting a protected group afaik.
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Step sequences were a required element in the SP under 6.0 so they weren't non-existent. I much preferred the fast and dramatic step sequences of skaters like Yagudin and Michelle Kwan to the labored and twisty-turny ones under IJS. I also miss beautiful arabesque spirals held for more that two second, classic layback (no Biellman), scratch spins, held-out positions and programs that had an emotional impact.

Of course they weren't (very simple to "almost" non-existent would have been more accurate) but if we have to cherrypick one or two great skaters over the hundreds of non medal contenders, the sport has come a long way since 20 years ago, at least to my eyes. I think we've seen more elaborate and more artistic programs under IJS than the 6.0 system, not only from the gold medalists but from 2nd tier skaters as well.

Besides, the IJS gave us Asada, Kim, Kostner, Takahashi, Lambiel, Buttle, Virtue&Moir, Sui&Han and the list goes on. And while one could argue that they would've been successful under any Code of Points, I think the IJS is partly responsible for the variety and artistic range of these amazing skaters that it's hard for me to dismiss it as "mechanical" and "point-milking" like many posters claim (not necessarily you).
 

russianfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
I just laugh at her videos because they are so childish, and she is so obsessed and delusional. The one about Ashley Wagner was hilarious. Despite the fact that she is just a delusional hater, I do agree with her basic premise that Medvedeva is overscored

This was the only video from Koola that i've watched, i saw first 10-20 seconds, realized that he/she doesn't even understand that Ashley was judged by their national judges (not the judges from ISU), laughed and closed that video. That channel is like a sect for those who want to believe in something :biggrin:

My bet is on the backloading, the childish choreography, not finishing the transitional moves and that she's disposable untill the next big star because puberty. :laugh2:

Rushed choreography, jumping bean, juniorish presentation. Did i forget anything?
 

David21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Besides, the IJS gave us Asada, Kim, Kostner, Takahashi, Lambiel, Buttle, Virtue&Moir, Sui&Han and the list goes on. And while one could argue that they would've been successful under any Code of Points, I think the IJS is partly responsible for the variety and artistic range of these amazing skaters that it's hard for me to dismiss it as "mechanical" and "point-milking" like many posters claim (not necessarily you).


Kostner, Takahashi, Lambiel and Buttle afair competed already under 6.0 and already had an artistic range. Their artistic range have nothing to do with IJS IMO. Instead, there are lots lower ranked skaters whose "artistic range" or whatever you want to call has been reduced because of the restrictions of IJS.
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Idk if this has been discussed yet but does anyone else hate Alina's tutu? I feel like is just exacerbates her junior-ness.



I was just searching for Evgenia's SP when those videos popped up w the results. God, I remember getting into arguments w them in the YT comment sections YEARS ago.

But while they may be a demented individual, they're not targeting a protected group afaik.

Really? It's obvious that negative comments on Koola's videos get immediately deleted by the channel, whereas all the supporting ones get a thumbs up. This user has waaaay too much free time.
 

cell

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
This was the only video from Koola that i've watched, i saw first 10-20 seconds, realized that he/she doesn't even understand that Ashley was judged by their national judges (not the judges from ISU), laughed and closed that video. That channel is like a sect for those who want to believe in something :biggrin:



Rushed choreography, jumping bean, juniorish presentation. Did i forget anything?

What was hilarious about the Ashley video is that it's ISU judges who have given her high(er) scores, not National judges. Koola anointed Ashley as some kind of crusader against ISU. :palmf::yahoo:
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Kostner, Takahashi, Lambiel and Buttle afair competed already under 6.0 and already had an artistic range. Their artistic range have nothing to do with IJS IMO. Instead, there are lots lower ranked skaters whose "artistic range" or whatever you want to call has been reduced because of the restrictions of IJS.

Yes, but their best years (and the ones where they won most medals and arguably gave the most memorable performances) were under IJS, so I'd hardly call them 6.0 skaters.

A very valid point, with which I respectfully disagree. I enjoy IJS programs far more than 6.0 ones, but I can totally understand the appeal of the latter.
 

russianfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Idk if this has been discussed yet but does anyone else hate Alina's tutu? I feel like is just exacerbates her junior-ness.

But why? I really don't understand, i could may be agree about previous one, but current one looks gorgeous. I don't see any relation between her tutu and junior-ness...
Also, are you talking about SP or FS dress(i'm not sure)?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Medvedeva sort of threw this one away in the SP with the double axel. In the long program her landings were very shaky. I think keeping the triple flip+triple toe for the second half is a smart move (I know that here that was a mistake, but they need to reconsider)

FFS Kostner....you should be ashamed!

Why should Kostner be ashamed? It was the judges who gave her the marks.

The FS was bad but instead of focus on the negative, if anything, she should be proud of that SP personal best (which created a sufficient gap to beat Sotskova). :clap:
 

Ares

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Country
Poland
Idk if this has been discussed yet but does anyone else hate Alina's tutu? I feel like is just exacerbates her junior-ness.



I was just searching for Evgenia's SP when those videos popped up w the results. God, I remember getting into arguments w them in the YT comment sections YEARS ago.

But while they may be a demented individual, they're not targeting a protected group afaik.

I hate Zagitova's tutu as well - unflattering. It makes her look more bent forward than she is for me and breaks her line.
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
But why? I really don't understand, i could may be agree about previous one, but current one looks gorgeous. I don't see any relation between her tutu and junior-ness...

I think most people don't have an issue with the tutu per se (or with it being juniorish), but with the fact that it's supposed to be accompanied by a balletic presentation that Alina lacks and that it was purposefully chosen to make her appear more artistic (hence raise her PCS).

I personally think it looks amazing on her, and while she could work on her posture and hand carriage, she pulls it off (for the most part).
 

russianfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Agreed!
When comparing programs from 20 years ago, it looks like a completely different sport. Easier jump content, non-existent step sequences, empty choreographies, horrible music cuts and scrunchies. Oh, the scrunchies... :biggrin:
Coming from someone who's watched a good 15 years of 6.0 system programs, I can only snort when someone is nostalgic of the old days of yore.

You know, since i've started following FS not so long ago, sometimes i watch some "old-school" programs and i can't say that many of impressed me... for example i've watched few Yuna Kim programs, which people claim to be iconic or something like that, but i didn't feel anything, i mean, she's elegant, pretty good at jumps, but i haven't seen any emotions/connection to the music. So far the only programs which have really impressed me were the ones by Yagudin at 2002 Olympics.
Btw is there any thread for old-school iconic programs? :)
 

Nightcrawler

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
You know, since i've started following FS not so long ago, sometimes i watch some "old-school" programs and i can't say that many of impressed me... for example i've watched few Yuna Kim programs, which people claim to be iconic or something like that, but i didn't feel anything, i mean, she's elegant, pretty good at jumps, but i haven't seen any emotions/connection to the music. So far the only programs which have really impressed me were the ones by Yagudin at 2002 Olympics.
Btw is there any thread for old-school iconic programs? :)

I could suggest a lot of old-school iconic programs;
Michelle Kwan (almost everything), Lu Chen (1996 & 1998 are masterpieces IMHO), Maria Butyrskaya (from 1999 on), Oksana Baiul 1994 SP
There should be a thread somewhere...
 

largeman

choice beef
Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
It's weird, right? Michelle Kwan also had a horrible flutz, yet people love her so much... Yet they constantly complain about Medvedeva's flutz. Double standards.

...
in this era in which edge calls and deductions are supposed to be treated seriously
(as written down) they're making a joke from this sport when they can't even stick to it and selectively applying it.

That's right, the problem is not that Zhenya flutzes. Every skater has flaws. People are not saying that because she flutzes, she can never be considered a great skater or even one of the best ever. People are just complaining about the fact that the tech panel does not call an e an e and that judges are rewarding it with positive GOE.

Bringing Michelle Kwan into this is just :scratch2:
 
Top