Taking Risks in an Olympic Season

skatespin · Jan 24, 2018

Mirai Nagasu putting a planned 3A into her short and long programs this season. People were initially critical of this, I was even a bit worried, but it turned out that is was a positive for her, setting her apart and giving her something different to focus on.

I also want to second Evgenia changing her LP. The first one she had, was basically like all the other LPs she's done before except more boring and now she has probably what is her best LP of her senior career. It fits her well and is at least a little bit of a change from what she normally does.

Nathan's SP - I agree this is very different, but turned out amazing. Night and day in presentation between now and 2 years ago.

Kaori - Both programs, she had a different short initially and changed it to her Moonlight Sonata SP which fits her perfectly and the music works so well with backloading. Her long program is different, just like nathan's - personally I like it but the doll part in the middle goes on a little too long. But I for sure think her taking risks and getting good programs helped her be taken seriously enough to get that olympic spot.

Step Sequence4 · Jan 24, 2018

I think although this hasn’t been just this season, Kolyada’s 4Lz in BOTH programs when he rarely lands it in one. Stylistically one that less so paid off but could’ve been great was Gabby’s piano gladiator, had she used a slightly different arrangement I think it could’ve been great.

TontoK · Jan 24, 2018

ancientpeas said:
To be honest if I was an OGM contender and winning was important to me I'd probably not take any big risks. I know that's boring and makes me less of an artist but if I wanted to win I'd go for something that I thought was powerful but safe.

And that could win. It could also be beautiful and off the podium.

I think that uncertainty and tension is what makes the event so exciting.

ancientpeas · Jan 24, 2018

TontoK said:
And that could win. It could also be beautiful and off the podium.

I think that uncertainty and tension is what makes the event so exciting.

True but you have to know the judges are going to reward some boring program to POTO or Les Mis more than they'd reward you skating to something like Lady Gaga's Til it Happens to you (from the movie Hunting Ground). If I really wanted to make statement and kiss my medal goodbye I'd skate to that personally. Statement skating. Go big, or go home.

el henry · Jan 24, 2018

I don't think any skater *truly* ventures outside their comfort zone, and certainly not in an Olympic year.

Nathan tries another quad? Well, yepperdoodles, but that is not truly taking a risk. Doing the Russian splits and catchfoot camels spins that Jason does, that would be outside his comfort zone, and taking a risk. And vice versa. :biggrin:

Jimmy Ma skating to hip hop is not outside his comfort zone (if I'm not mistaken, didn't Jimmy do an Emimem program? Or am I thinking of someone else?) Plus, God bless him, Jimmy isn't going to the Olys except with a ticket, so he can skate to hip hop. Every other skater, like in every other sport known to man, relies on what brung him to the dance and tries his best to maximize it. As well he ought.:agree:

shine · Jan 24, 2018

el henry said:
I don't think any skater *truly* ventures outside their comfort zone, and certainly not in an Olympic year.

Nathan tries another quad? Well, yepperdoodles, but that is not truly taking a risk. Doing the Russian splits and catchfoot camels spins that Jason does, that would be outside his comfort zone, and taking a risk. And vice versa.

Some skaters are naturally more flexible than others, and Jason is definitely one of the most flexible men and uses that to his advantage. But I personally don't need to see everyone achieve those hyper extend positions on all the elements.

el henry · Jan 24, 2018

shine said:
Some skaters are naturally more flexible than others, and Jason is definitely one of the most flexible men and uses that to his advantage. But I personally don't need every one to achieve hyper extend positions on all elements.

I agree, I don't think they should either. And I don't think everyone should try five quads. Just that what is a "risk" will vary from skater to skater.

chillgil · Jan 24, 2018

there's also a difference between being creative and taking a risk. A lot of people here are saying Nathan's SP is risky when I don't really see it that way? It's fresh and cool but where's the risk? If he decided to skate to that artist's discography for his long program now that would've been a RISK but when you've got one of the best choreographers in the world creating a program to a cool song that's not that big of a risk lol

shine · Jan 24, 2018

chillgil said:
there's also a difference between being creative and taking a risk. A lot of people here are saying Nathan's SP is risky when I don't really see it that way? It's fresh and cool but where's the risk? If he decided to skate to that artist's discography for his long program now that would've been a RISK but when you've got one of the best choreographers in the world creating a program to a cool song that's not that big of a risk lol

So why didn't many other skaters find cool choreographers and cool songs if it's so easy?

chillgil · Jan 24, 2018

shine said:
So why didn't many other skaters find cool choreographers and cool songs if it's so easy?

lol idk . . . i mean ya sure it's "risky" whenever someone decides not to use classical or warhorse music but if anything nathan's COSTUMES are more risky than his music choice

and also im not sure you get my point . . . obviously not everyone can afford to have their program choreographed by the greats . . . i dont really understand this response actually :slink:

shine · Jan 25, 2018

chillgil said:
lol idk . . . i mean ya sure it's "risky" whenever someone decides not to use classical or warhorse music but if anything nathan's COSTUMES are more risky than his music choice

and also im not sure you get my point . . . obviously not everyone can afford to have their program choreographed by the greats . . . i dont really understand this response actually

My point is a combination of great choreography and great song is hard to come by these days, and even if you had both they would only take you so far if you don’t know how to perform the way the program is intended to be performed. So let’s not dismiss and discredit so easily.

chillgil · Jan 25, 2018

shine said:
My point is a combination of great choreography and great song is hard to come by these days, and even if you had both they would only take you so far if you don’t know how to perform the way the program is intended to be performed. So let’s not dismiss and discredit so easily.

okayyyyyy....and i never said nathan doesnt work hard or that his SP isn't fresh in fact in my post i used the words "fresh and cool" to describe it. What you're describing though isn't a risk that's all

skylark · Jan 25, 2018

el henry said:
I don't think any skater *truly* ventures outside their comfort zone, and certainly not in an Olympic year.

Nathan tries another quad? Well, yepperdoodles, but that is not truly taking a risk. Doing the Russian splits and catchfoot camels spins that Jason does, that would be outside his comfort zone, and taking a risk. And vice versa.

I disagree. Nathan has truly ventured outside his comfort zone artistically this year. He's doing it with both his SP and his FS. The Nemesis music is off beat and, as GGFan said in the OP, was questioned at the beginning of the year. I'm not one of those who did, because I thought the whole program was perfect for him from the first time I saw it, besides being out of this world dance-wise, and not like any figure skating program I'd ever seen.

Also, I think his Mao's Last Dancer FS is a different kind of artistic risk because it's a little bit internal, and Nathan's already a little bit internal, so he has to make an effort to get the story and the emotions across. If you ask me, the FS hasn't quite been realized to its potential ... yet. It's one of the exciting unknowns that Olympics and maybe Worlds will still have in store, whether it will still develop now and even post-Olympics.

Nathan trying another quad is a technical risk, not an artistic one, but it is truly a risk, a huge one, to incorporate another difficult jump, be able to manage the huge energy output that it takes, and still not have it affect the rest of the program. I'm puzzled that anyone would think otherwise. And doing the catchfoot spins that Jason does would be another technical risk. But it's one I'm very happy for Nathan not to try.

I see no reason why he should.

shine · Jan 25, 2018

chillgil said:
okayyyyyy....and i never said nathan doesnt work hard or that his SP isn't fresh in fact in my post i used the words "fresh and cool" to describe it. What you're describing though isn't a risk that's all

It's all relative. You only need to see how many warhorses there are this season to see why this SP is considered a risk by many. There's a reason why skaters skate to warhorses - they are tried and true. They get the crowd going; they are familiar for both the audience and the judges so it's easier to get into the program and appreciate it; there are also more or less established, formulaic ways to perform to warhorses so you don't have to experiment so much. With this music, the choreography really had to be created out of the thin air as there are no references and the interpretation is less straightforward and more abstract; there's also greater uncertainty in how it will be received.

chillgil · Jan 25, 2018

shine said:
It's all relative. You only need to see how many warhorses there are this season to see why this SP is considered a risk by many. There's a reason why skaters skate to warhorses - they are tried and true. They get the crowd going; they are familiar for both the audience and the judges so it's easier to get into the program and appreciate it; there are also more or less established, formulaic ways to perform to warhorses so you don't have to experiment so much. With this music, the choreography really had to be created out of the thin air as there are no references and the interpretation is less straightforward and more abstract; there's also greater uncertainty in how it will be received.

ok i see your point but i just figure that of all the risks everyone is taking this season nathan's SP just seems like low risk/high reward but everyone has their own perspectives on it

Skater Boy · Jan 25, 2018

Of the big names I don't see a lot of risks though some beautiful programs ie PC. Ironically I see VM taking a huge risk and sadly it is not going to pay off. Artistically it is a stretch but it will not be rerwarded. The fact that they have done Mahler and then compare it to this shows the great versatility they have but it is not going to be rewarded. I admired their freshness to Carmen and the lightness and nuance of their Umbrella skate but if they wanted OGM in 2018 they really took a huge risk that doesn't look like it will pay off. If the judges wanted too, nothing against pc they could really rack up the pcs for VM and keep pc half a point away on each area of pcs instead VM are losing tech and pcs wise often. I also can add there is room to do that in the sd too but I digress. A costume is a bit of a risk but doesn't usually kill a performance other than us on GS lol. So even Kostner's fs catsuit is not such a huge issue. I wonder if they will change it to the same top but make the bottom a skirt?

skylark · Jan 25, 2018

Skater Boy said:
Of the big names I don't see a lot of risks though some beautiful programs ie PC. Ironically I see VM taking a huge risk and sadly it is not going to pay off. Artistically it is a stretch but it will not be rerwarded. The fact that they have done Mahler and then compare it to this shows the great versatility they have but it is not going to be rewarded. I admired their freshness to Carmen and the lightness and nuance of their Umbrella skate but if they wanted OGM in 2018 they really took a huge risk that doesn't look like it will pay off.

Well ... V/M said when they came back last season, with the intention of going for another Olympics, that the reason they came back was because they wanted to develop their skating artistically. Not just to win another gold medal. IIRC, they said that for them, the best way to do so was to push themselves by competing.

So one could say that in fact, they've accomplished their goal admirably. It's the kind of goal that is its own reward, whether you win or not.

joanne129 · Jan 25, 2018

candyman program? :rofl:

Crossover · Jan 25, 2018

joanne129 said:
candyman program?

Tarasova and Morozov are certainly taking a big risk with the program. They should've used it for their SP instead to minimize any danger if they really wanted the music. I wonder how the audience at the Olympic venue would react at the program. I hope they don't understand the lyrics, but what about the viewers from all around the world watching it live on TV. :drama:

They deserve much more than the program!

TontoK · Jan 25, 2018

Skater Boy said:
Of the big names I don't see a lot of risks though some beautiful programs ie PC. Ironically I see VM taking a huge risk and sadly it is not going to pay off. Artistically it is a stretch but it will not be rerwarded. The fact that they have done Mahler and then compare it to this shows the great versatility they have but it is not going to be rewarded. I admired their freshness to Carmen and the lightness and nuance of their Umbrella skate but if they wanted OGM in 2018 they really took a huge risk that doesn't look like it will pay off. If the judges wanted too, nothing against pc they could really rack up the pcs for VM and keep pc half a point away on each area of pcs instead VM are losing tech and pcs wise often. I also can add there is room to do that in the sd too but I digress. A costume is a bit of a risk but doesn't usually kill a performance other than us on GS lol. So even Kostner's fs catsuit is not such a huge issue. I wonder if they will change it to the same top but make the bottom a skirt?

I don't think MR was necessarily a risk - but I do think it might turn out to be a really poor choice.

When I first heard that was their FD, I was really puzzled. Nothing about that sounded new or innovative or challenging or inspiring. It's the same sense I got when the Shibs announced Coldplay III. Don't get me wrong. Neither MR or Coldplay III are horrible programs/music. They're fine. I just think they do less for the skaters than some other choice could have done.

I've come to like the MR program a bit more than I first did, but here's the bottom line... I think the better team is going to lose. I didn't think the French could (or should) beat them, but I really think that's the case now. And I don't think it had to be that way.

Taking Risks in an Olympic Season

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