Sending Rippon right decision by USFSA

fredtx121 · Feb 16, 2018

Adam Rippon is having the time of his life and is one of the stand out stars at this years Olympics. Imagine if the USFSA decided not to send him and sent Ross Miner. Things would look a little grim than they already are, especially with Nathan Chen choking under pressure.
So let's say Ross was sent:
His personal best international is 85.36 3 years ago at the Rostelecom Cup which would land him at best 9th at the Olympics
His recent personal best internationally is averaging 71.50 which would not even qualify him for the Free skate,
Adam is currently 7th which is huge!
Good job USFSA for making the right decision to send Adam
Imagine going by Ross' recent international score and having the following standings at the Olympics after SP?
Vincent- 12th
Nathan-17th
Ross- Did not qualify.

Blades of Passion · Feb 16, 2018

You can't go by scores on paper like that! Ross trained to peak in the later part of the season and that's exactly what he did, skating extremely well. He easily could have finished better than Adam in the Team Event (not that either of them should have been chosen for it) and been in at least the same place he is now in the SP; higher if he was able to add the 4S back into his SP as he has done in the past (and he did it out of steps in his LP, so that shows his ability to include it in the SP).

In any case, Vincent is the one who should have been left off the team for Ross.

Tolstoj · Feb 16, 2018

By your logic Jason Brown would have been an even better choice than Adam Rippon because he has higher PBs.

Blades of Passion said:
In any case, Vincent is the one who should have been left off the team for Ross.

Vincent is the future of Men figure skating in USA, you have to give him a chance, plus he has the quads which in this field seems almost a requirement to finish in the top 10 - top 5.

The thing with Vincent is that no one said him clearly to change the programs, because they are not okay for the Olympics and CLEARLY judges don't like him right now.

It's such a shame because i feel that with a more classical piece and a little bit more of commitment, Vincent's score in the SP would have been a lot higher.

RusFed said Kolyada to change his SP last season, i usually don't like these decisions but in this case USFSA should have done just that with Vincent.

chopinskate · Feb 16, 2018

Ross instead of Vincent.

I'd rather have seen Vincent develop more. His PCS is poor, and his landings bother me.

drivingmissdaisy · Feb 16, 2018

I think it would have been hard to leave Vincent home after medaling two years in a row at Nationals and, now, being the world junior champion. Adam is skating well and he's generating a lot of fan interest, and I don't think Ross would have done the latter. No one other than Nathan is a medal contender, so there were probably valid arguments for and against picking any two of Ross, Vincent, Adam, or Jason.

chopinskate · Feb 16, 2018

drivingmissdaisy said:
I think it would have been hard to leave Vincent home after medaling two years in a row at Nationals and, now, being the world junior champion. Adam is skating well and he's generating a lot of fan interest, and I don't think Ross would have done the latter. No one other than Nathan is a medal contender, so there were probably valid arguments for and against picking any two of Ross, Vincent, Adam, or Jason.

I legitimately think that Nathan and Adam were always going. So Ross was really passed over for Vincent.

Blades of Passion · Feb 16, 2018

Vincent's programs are great, his skating is the problem.

Jason Brown skated too poorly at his events to deserve being sent. His performance at Skate Canada is still my favorite of any guy's LP this year in terms of the PCS, but the tech was imperfect and he just got worse at all 3 of his events after that, with his worst showing of the season at Nationals. That's not a trajectory that puts someone on an Olympic team.

bobbob · Feb 16, 2018

By your logic, sending Nathan was the wrong decision.

chopinskate · Feb 16, 2018

bobbob said:
By your logic, sending Nathan was the wrong decision.

How is that the logic anyone proposed?

Tolstoj · Feb 16, 2018

Blades of Passion said:
Vincent's programs are great, his skating is the problem.

They aren't very conservative (especially the short program), to me at the Olympics especially if this is your senior debut and your skating isn't great, you have to act like a good skater even though you are not.

Think about Kovtun in 2013-14 with the Tchaikovsky's FS: that music would have been so epic if skate by a great skater like Chan or Fernandez, Kovtun's skating was nowhere as good but still because he tried to look more artistic and judges gave him the PCS. (and his components were higher than Vincent now, 4 years ago when scores were lower for everybody)

At least one of the two programs should have been more classical in my opinion.

bobbob · Feb 16, 2018

Tolstoj said:
They aren't very conservative, to me at the Olympics especially if this is your senior debut and your skating isn't great, you have to act like a good skater even though you are not.

Think about Kovtun in 2013-14 with the Tchaikovsky's FS: that music would have been so epic if skate by a great skater like Chan or Fernandez, Kovtun's skating was nowhere as good but still because he tried to look more artistic and judges gave him the PCS. (and his components were higher than Vincent now, 4 years ago when scores were lower for everybody)

At least one of the two programs should have been more classical in my opinion.

Kovtun was the only top male Russian skater (ok barring Evgeni), and the Olympics were in Sochi. Why did he get PCS again? It wasn't because of the music...

Vincent needs to get some more clean programs internationally if he wants to boost his PCS, as the US Number 4 or even lower by international PCS scoring. It will be a long, slow journey (like Boyang) but if he's in it for the long haul, it's definitely possible to improve with a combination of cleaner programs and improving skating skills and programs themselves. In the 2015-2016 GPF, Boyang's PCS was more than 10 points below Yuzuru's. Yesterday, he was 5.5 points back. (Yuzu didn't get any worse, BTW) But it is a slow process, you can't just show up and get high PCS in most cases. The fastest way to have your PCS grow quickly is to skate clean programs (Evgenia)

Tolstoj · Feb 16, 2018

bobbob said:
Kovtun was the only top male Russian skater (ok barring Evgeni), and the Olympics were in Sochi. Why did he get PCS again?

Evgeni Plushenko was clearly the first choice from the fed to the point where they picked him over Kovtun even after Nationals.

Forget about Kovtun, the point is: a potential Olympic champion would never pick that music Vincent has for the short program, you have think like that considering that with his technical contents, he could act like a medal contender.

bobbob · Feb 16, 2018

Tolstoj said:
Evgeni Plushenko was clearly the first choice from the fed to the point where they picked him over Kovtun even after Nationals.

Forget about Kovtun, the point is: a potential Olympic champion would never pick that music Vincent has for the short program, you have think like that considering that with his technical contents, he could act like a medal contender.

I can't find a single proven example that music affects PCS. Like it just isn't a factor. Maybe Papadakis and Cizeron?

ice coverage · Feb 16, 2018

fredtx121 said:
... Imagine going by Ross' recent international score and having the following standings at the Olympics after SP?
Vincent- 12th
Nathan-17th
Ross- Did not qualify.

I hate/hate/hate the premise of your OP. :dev2:

None of us ever will know how Ross -- with momentum as the U.S. silver medalist -- would have scored in OWG SP.

My opinion is that he would have qualified for the FS.
Fifteen months ago at Cup of China in Nov 2016, his SP score was 76.73.

ETA: If he had been one of the three U.S. men in OWG SP, he would have needed 73.59 to qualify for the FS.

(And if Ross scored six points higher at OWG than at 2016 Cup of China, he would have beaten Nathan's OWG score in the individual SP.
An increase of six points would not be unthinkable.
At OWG, Aliev beat his PB by almost eight points.)

Tolstoj · Feb 16, 2018

bobbob said:
I can't find a single proven example that music affects PCS. Like it just isn't a factor. Maybe Papadakis and Cizeron?

But you have think that this is your first season in seniors so judges aren't willing to give you high components anyway, at least give them a reason, otherwise they will look at you the same way they looked at Jin for a while (the jumper, no artistry here)

Nathan had two extremely conservative programs last season, Junhwan and Dmitri are doing the same at least for one program this season,...

Blades of Passion · Feb 16, 2018

Tolstoj said:
At least one of the two programs should have been more classical in my opinion.

That would just make him more boring. Vincent has virtually no personality, messy jumps, and lacks stretch. Not a good fit for him. His programs are youthful and emotional and modern, they are great vehicles. He just hasn't been delivering.

bobbob · Feb 16, 2018

chopinskate said:
How is that the logic anyone proposed?

My point is, the results of the Olympics should not be used to justify sending or not sending someone. OK, i get if you are just saying we made a good decision, sure. The decision was made on the information we had at the time. If we knew Adam was going to beat both Vincent and Nathan, of course we would send him. If we knew Nathan would bomb, we wouldn't send him.

chopinskate · Feb 16, 2018

bobbob said:
My point is, the results of the Olympics should not be used to justify sending or not sending someone. OK, i get if you are just saying we made a good decision, sure. The decision was made on the information we had at the time. If we knew Adam was going to beat both Vincent and Nathan, of course we would send him. If we knew Nathan would bomb, we wouldn't send him.

Oh WHOOPS, I thought you were directing that at the people saying that Vincent shouldn't be sent, not the OP.

Sorry!

Amei · Feb 16, 2018

There is no way of knowing how Ross would have performed at the Olympics, no one could have predicted that Nathan Chen would do so poorly. Rippon is hardly a standout star of the Olympics, the only reason he's getting press attention is for something that has zero to do with his sport. I sure any athlete would be having the time of their life at the Olympics - not sure why that means the USFSA was right to send Rippon to the Olympics, I'm sure Ross Miner would be having a good time if he were sent.

At the end of the day - no US man is going to be on the podium and the only 1 of the 4 being discussed that had a realistic shot at the podium was Nathan.

zanadude · Feb 16, 2018

Adam was A right choice. There's no evidence that he was THE ONLY right choice.

Sending Rippon right decision by USFSA

fredtx121

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Tolstoj

chopinskate

drivingmissdaisy

chopinskate

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

bobbob

chopinskate

Tolstoj

bobbob

Tolstoj

bobbob

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

Tolstoj

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

bobbob

chopinskate

Amei

zanadude

Similar threads

Connect with us