Tips for stretching?

Hello everyone
Thought I should ask here since I know some of you are very good skaters —and thus, flexible! Dancer's/gymnasts etc also welcome.

Lately (since October) I've been stretching fairly frequently. I've come pretty far, from being uncomfortable touching my feet to having right-side splits and a (pretty ugly) Biellmann position off ice. However, lately I've been having some troubles.

* First of all, even warming up extensively before stretching (running, jumping rope, and then some soft dynamic stretches), if I push myself even a little I end up really sore the next day. And if I don't push myself it doesn't feel like I make any improvement at all. I tend to have really bad knots in my legs —today I went to the physiotherapist and they told me it may be more about bad posture than stretching, but the worst pains in my legs have always come after a intense session, so I do think it's related. Any advice on how to deal with this?
* The second one would be advice on the Biellmann position. When I do a half Biellman I can get a fairly good extension, a nice tear shape. But when I come to the full Biellmann I'm not able to straighten my arms, so I look kinda like a
Chupa-Chups. I don't know if I'm lacking shoulder mobility, arm strength, balance of all of the above —if anyone had the same problem and knows what should I focus on working, that'd be awesome!
* Third and last question: I've been able to apply all the painfully won flexibility on the ice with Y spirals (getting higher), half Biellmann spirals (pretty good), Biellmann spirals (I go into my toepick 90% of the time) and things that require hip openers (outside eagles, etc). But the "main" spirals/arabesques are stuck in the same place as three months ago, kind of 100º degrees to the floor and that's it, I'm not able to put my leg any higher, even if I actually should. How should I improve them?

I'll appreciate any input. My main coach here is/was a man so no stretching questions LOL. I've signed up for classes with another skater, but I do find sometimes that the advice in this forum is better than some I hear in my rink —or it completed it pretty accurately.
Thank you for reading this far! And also thanks to all Lutz Corner lurkers, I've learnt a lot from you all

For leg pain, do you use a roller? My skater has one that vibrates - she uses it for other sports or when her legs feel tight. Maybe that would help work the knots out? It's called GRID Vibe by triggerpoint.

Not a skater but a dancer:
1. In addition to rolling, try an Epsom salt bath. Epsom salt is a godsend.
2. Some soreness is normal. I did a nice stretch Saturday night and was quite sore on Sunday. However, knots don't sound normal. In addition to posture corrections, Pilates is wonderful and also a godsend.
3. I actually also struggle with a Biellman (in dance, it's called a needle) so even being really flexible will still present with challenges Make sure your abs are really stretched out before doing one.
4. For the arabesque, I'd take a Theraband, tie a small loop in the end, and stick your foot in the loop. Then pass the Theraband over your head and pull up into an arabesque. That way, you can pull on the Theraband gently to stretch some more. Arabesques also require quite a bit of leg and back strength.

*I will add, I've very hyperextended and have hypermobility. So, stretching comes quite naturally to me...

I sometimes get knots in my hamstrings too, which I secretly attribute to not stretching enough after skating, and then sitting sedentary at my desk at work for the next 8 hours after that. I have not idea if it's true, but I try as much as possible to allocate time to stretch adequately after skating, and while at work frequently alternate between sitting and standing (I have a standing desk) and walking around.

Rolling out your muscles also helps release tightness. A tennis ball is also great for reaching deep and localized knots. I use one for my hamstrings, gluts and shoulders. It takes a little bit of getting used to some awkward positions you have to put yourself into to hit the knots and sore spots.

For your spiral, it could be less a flexibility issue than a strength issue. You don't have an arm supporting your leg extension, so you need to develop the right muscles to hold the extension. Working on holding the extension with your gluts and hamstrings will take strain off your back muscles.

Pilates and use stretching bands off ice. After skating use a foam roller.

Mussique said:

Hello everyone
Thought I should ask here since I know some of you are very good skaters —and thus, flexible! Dancer's/gymnasts etc also welcome.

Lately (since October) I've been stretching fairly frequently. I've come pretty far, from being uncomfortable touching my feet to having right-side splits and a (pretty ugly) Biellmann position off ice. However, lately I've been having some troubles.

* First of all, even warming up extensively before stretching (running, jumping rope, and then some soft dynamic stretches), if I push myself even a little I end up really sore the next day. And if I don't push myself it doesn't feel like I make any improvement at all. I tend to have really bad knots in my legs —today I went to the physiotherapist and they told me it may be more about bad posture than stretching, but the worst pains in my legs have always come after a intense session, so I do think it's related. Any advice on how to deal with this?
* The second one would be advice on the Biellmann position. When I do a half Biellman I can get a fairly good extension, a nice tear shape. But when I come to the full Biellmann I'm not able to straighten my arms, so I look kinda like a
Chupa-Chups. I don't know if I'm lacking shoulder mobility, arm strength, balance of all of the above —if anyone had the same problem and knows what should I focus on working, that'd be awesome!
* Third and last question: I've been able to apply all the painfully won flexibility on the ice with Y spirals (getting higher), half Biellmann spirals (pretty good), Biellmann spirals (I go into my toepick 90% of the time) and things that require hip openers (outside eagles, etc). But the "main" spirals/arabesques are stuck in the same place as three months ago, kind of 100º degrees to the floor and that's it, I'm not able to put my leg any higher, even if I actually should. How should I improve them?

I'll appreciate any input. My main coach here is/was a man so no stretching questions LOL. I've signed up for classes with another skater, but I do find sometimes that the advice in this forum is better than some I hear in my rink —or it completed it pretty accurately.
Thank you for reading this far! And also thanks to all Lutz Corner lurkers, I've learnt a lot from you all

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These are just some basic comments, but I hope they are somewhat helpful

In relation to your first question, are you doing some 'warm up' stretches? It's important to warm up with running, etc. but it's also important to do smaller stretches before you move on to deeper stretches. For example, doing multiple hip flexor stretches (starting with really basic, non painful stretches) before doing splits stretches. To increase flexibility quicker, you would need to do multiple stretch positions targeting the same group of muscles, and in the correct order so you're not hindering your progress. I noticed my flexibility started to improve noticeably when I was doing a full body stretch for 30mins per day.

If you're also suffering from muscle cramps, it could be worth getting your magnesium levels checked. However, if you haven't stretched a lot in the past through dance, gymnastics or the like, the pain could just be your body adjusting to stretching. Just make sure that you're not pushing yourself too far when you're stretching. You shouldn't feel much pain when holding stretches.

Your third question sounds like a strength issue. If your hips/joints allow your leg to go higher and you don't feel joint pain when you go further, but you can't get your leg higher on your own, you might need to strengthen those muscle groups.

OP, that is an amazing increase in flexibility in a short time! A lot of posters have had good tips- addressing your 3rd question might have inputs on your others. If you overstretch, sometimes it overstretches in your joints and leads to instability and imbalances. You need to make sure you increase strength at the same time with flexibility. Not doing so can lead to injuries as well, and could be causing the pain you've been feeling. Weight training and strength/core exercises can help this and it could help your posture too. I'd also say, there's only a few moves in skating (that you mentioned) where you can hold your leg up to assist, and MANY times in skating where you have to hold your extensions on its own strength. Even basic forward stroking, when you see good ice dancers do it, looks like they're doing a lunge with their backs perfectly straight and free legs lifted high above the ground.

Thanks for all your answers!!
loopy, no, I don't! But reading all the positive comments on the roller thing I may really need to ask for one for my birthday. Thanks for the tip!
Spirals for Miles: thank you for your very detailed answer! Yes, the knots worry me —and I actually managed to injure myself around December 27th by pushing myself while having one. I will try following the advices here and see if it helps. Frankly my Biellmann can't by any stretch of the imagination be called a needle I'm able to grab my foot with two hands behind my back, but I can't get the "needle" part (as in high, straight, pretty). I will definitely follow the advice on the arabesques. It's more than possible I'm lacking leg strength.
cl2: I usually try to stretch even if it's just lightly after skating, but I'll focus more on that and see if it helps. Also writing down the tennis ball advice, sounds cheap and useful, which is great in my book!
Ic3Rabbit : Well, seems like I may have to go search for some Pilate classes then! Thanks for your advice, it's always very useful to read you around here. Also taking note of the stretching bands. I usually just try to reach back and that makes for a really weird hip position.
Ange: I do usually do some dynamic stretches before the "main" ones, namely rotating my neck, shoulders, doing some kicks and back kicks, touching my feet and then going up, etc. But I had never heard about the Magnesium levels, and since I'm due for a medical check anyway I'll ask my doctor. And yes, hooray, I will search for ways to strengthen my legs, since it does sound like you said (ironically enough, strength is my weak point )
jfl12: Thank you! Not that much of an improvement with the amount of hours dedicated, though, to be honest. :Laugh: But I'm slowly getting somewhere. I didn't know that tidbit, but it does have logic. My mother did warn about also stretching both sides (left and right) and to not focus very much in one concrete part of the leg because it tends to the body "overcompensating" and that could be taking part as well, because I may not be doing it entirely correctly.

Thank you everyone for your detailed answers! I will try to put in practice most of the advice given here, and focus some on strength training, get some foam rollers and try to get a more balanced approach to stretching, overall Let's see if I can make one year of skating more or less injury-free!

While it's hard being injured, it teaches you a lot about your body and what works for you.
I've been injured nine times in a year...

Arabesque is not only about the stretch, it is also about strong gluteus muscles to hold the leg up there. You may be super flexible, but if you don’t have the muscles, the leg won’t hold itself up there. You seem to be doing well on the type of spiral positions where you hold the leg up with your arms, but not when you are supposed to hold the leg up on its own. A Leg weights let’s say 8-9 kilos. It takes muscles to lift it up and even more muscles to hold it up there.

Spirals for Miles said:

While it's hard being injured, it teaches you a lot about your body and what works for you.
I've been injured nine times in a year...

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You've just described story of my life, too...

hanca said:

Arabesque is not only about the stretch, it is also about strong gluteus muscles to hold the leg up there. You may be super flexible, but if you don’t have the muscles, the leg won’t hold itself up there. You seem to be doing well on the type of spiral positions where you hold the leg up with your arms, but not when you are supposed to hold the leg up on its own. A Leg weights let’s say 8-9 kilos. It takes muscles to lift it up and even more muscles to hold it up there.

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I second this! You need to strengthen as well as stretch. If all you do is stretch passively you will just get weaker as you become more bendy. Not good! Do arabesque lifts from a tendu to the back with a leg weight on. And do floor exercises like this to strengthen your back, core and glutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf73aNPoJW8