Adult Skaters: One Thing You Wish You Knew

tothepointe · Mar 7, 2018

sillyant said:
I can't agree more!
Working out what and why exactly went wrong is soo important!

For example, I used to be hopeless when it comes to checking shoulder. But then I found out that I didn't really have enough upper body strength to hold the position and hence subconsciously avoiding it.

So I did a bunch of push-ups and dumb bells and planks off ice regularly.

Now, I found it very easy to check shoulder and the off-ice exercise helped me with my posture on ice too

This is good advice. Sometimes I feel like my arms are flopping around if I let my upper body strength lapse.

jf12 · Mar 7, 2018

tothepointe said:
Don't watch any of those adult skaters Progress after X months. It'll only make you feel bad about your own more than reasonable progress. Or DO watch them but only if they have several years worth of comparison so you can see the fast progess eventually tapered off.

Do tape yourself even if you feel your terrible. You don't have to watch it now but it'll feel good for a comparision later.

Wow, harsh. I've seen a few of these videos, and there's various rates of improvement portrayed. It's nice (and to me, inspiring) to see beginners improve in an easy to watch montage. Sure, at some point every skater, kid or adult, will hit a wall in terms of aquiring new jumps, but a lot of adult skaters I see IRL keep on improving at a good rate on things like speed, edge and turn quality, power, and flow through their whole life. If watching other people succeed makes you feel worse about yourself, maybe that's a non skating problem.

jf12 · Mar 7, 2018

One piece of advice for any beginner is to not neglect the 'bad' direction in terms of turning, crossovers, etc - in fact, practice it twice as much as the good side - this will absolutely catch up later!

kelliusmaximus · Mar 7, 2018

I find those videos really encouraging personally - if they're better than me, it's great to see what adult skaters are able to do and where I could go in future, and if they're not then it reassures me about my progress. It's really hard to directly measure progress anyway because you don't know how often they skate or have lessons, whether they skated as a kid or did other sports, dance etc. The most impressive progress I've seen (doubles within a year, triples and a double axel in one case) have been all men - a gymnast, a yogi, and a professional dancer. It's not really discouraging that I'm not progressing as them because of that, circumstances make a big difference.

kelliusmaximus · Mar 7, 2018

Oops, I meant to quote this above

tothepointe said:
Don't watch any of those adult skaters Progress after X months. It'll only make you feel bad about your own more than reasonable progress. Or DO watch them but only if they have several years worth of comparison so you can see the fast progess eventually tapered off.

Do tape yourself even if you feel your terrible. You don't have to watch it now but it'll feel good for a comparision later.

tothepointe · Mar 7, 2018

jf12 said:
Wow, harsh. I've seen a few of these videos, and there's various rates of improvement portrayed. It's nice (and to me, inspiring) to see beginners improve in an easy to watch montage. Sure, at some point every skater, kid or adult, will hit a wall in terms of aquiring new jumps, but a lot of adult skaters I see IRL keep on improving at a good rate on things like speed, edge and turn quality, power, and flow through their whole life. If watching other people succeed makes you feel worse about yourself, maybe that's a non skating problem.

I think you've interpreted my comments in a tone that wasn't intended. The question posed was what was one thing I wish I'd known. It's not meant to say that other people succeeding makes me feel bad. It's about expectations.

The first rink I skated at I had no interaction with other adult skaters. So I though everyone mastered basic skaills very quickly. It turns out that my rate of progress is more or less normal. It's about having a healthy frame of reference.

jf12 · Mar 7, 2018

tothepointe said:
I think you've interpreted my comments in a tone that wasn't intended. The question posed was what was one thing I wish I'd known. It's not meant to say that other people succeeding makes me feel bad. It's about expectations.

The first rink I skated at I had no interaction with other adult skaters. So I though everyone mastered basic skaills very quickly. It turns out that my rate of progress is more or less normal. It's about having a healthy frame of reference.

The great thing about skating (adult or non) is that its an individual sport and EVERYONE'S progress is more or less normal. So if a new skater would truly understand that, they can watch whatever videos they want - in fact, most people would probably be interested in watching videos of people better than them, so they can get some ideas. That's such a valuable part of the learning process, it should be encouraged rather than discouraged. I'm not saying your experience is invalid for you, I just think that it's not good advice for most people. It is also certainly not true in my experience that people who learn quickly at the beginning tend to not improve quickly later.

HopeSpringsEternal · Mar 7, 2018

Thanks for continuing to provide great thoughts and advice, everyone! I just went skating for the first time today at 25 (!!!) and signed up for the rink's next learn to skate session! I had so much fun today, I couldn't be more excited. I know I'll be keeping everyone's comments in mind (especially "don't worry about being on the ice with little kids" lol), and I'm really appreciative of the contributions to this thread!

cl2 · Mar 7, 2018

HopeSpringsEternal said:
Thanks for continuing to provide great thoughts and advice, everyone! I just went skating for the first time today at 25 (!!!) and signed up for the rink's next learn to skate session! I had so much fun today, I couldn't be more excited. I know I'll be keeping everyone's comments in mind (especially "don't worry about being on the ice with little kids" lol), and I'm really appreciative of the contributions to this thread!

Have fun and be happy skating! Research has shown that the release of dopamine in the brain facilitates motor skill retention and long-term memory consolidation. Meaning, you learn better when you feel good about what you're practicing!

Silver Ice · Mar 8, 2018

Practice falling. They should show you how at your first learn to skate. Pay attention to that and practice it off ice. You can’t be prepared for every fall you have, but you can be prepared for many of them and learning how to fall properly can save you from some injuries.

Tavi... · Mar 8, 2018

jf12 said:
The great thing about skating (adult or non) is that its an individual sport and EVERYONE'S progress is more or less normal. So if a new skater would truly understand that, they can watch whatever videos they want - in fact, most people would probably be interested in watching videos of people better than them, so they can get some ideas. That's such a valuable part of the learning process, it should be encouraged rather than discouraged. I'm not saying your experience is invalid for you, I just think that it's not good advice for most people. It is also certainly not true in my experience that people who learn quickly at the beginning tend to not improve quickly later.

Nothing wrong with your idea in theory, but in reality, I agree with tothepointe.

As an adult recreational skater, I love watching and learning from people who are more advanced than I am - whether it’s the ones who compete at Worlds, or the junior/senior level skaters I see at my local rink.

But the adult “progress” videos on YouTube - at least the ones I’ve seen - don’t present a balanced or realistic picture of how fast most adult beginners progress, for the simple reason that the people who struggle with the basics - and that’s a good chunk of the adult beginners I’ve seen - don’t post videos on YouTube showing themselves doing bad crossovers for weeks on end. Rather, the people who post all seem to have breezed through basic skills in record time with no hiccups and started jumping and spinning and doing Ina Bauers practically immediately.

I don’t doubt that some adult beginners really are that super talented - but I’d guess it’s about the same percentage of the population as become top models - which is to say, not very many, and nowhere near as many as you’d think by looking at YouTube videos. It’s not that the videos are bad in themselves; it’s that they skew the idea of what’s “normal” by not showing the whole spectrum of adult skaters.

jf12 · Mar 9, 2018

Tavi... said:
I don’t doubt that some adult beginners really are that super talented - but I’d guess it’s about the same percentage of the population as become top models - which is to say, not very many, and nowhere near as many as you’d think by looking at YouTube videos. It’s not that the videos are bad in themselves; it’s that they skew the idea of what’s “normal” by not showing the whole spectrum of adult skaters.

But then, on the other hand, there's many skaters on a typical public session hanging onto the wall, looking at you, and saying your progress is not normal, being able to do a crossover or a mohawk!

Tavi... · Mar 9, 2018

jf12 said:
But then, on the other hand, there's many skaters on a typical public session hanging onto the wall, looking at you, and saying your progress is not normal, being able to do a crossover or a mohawk!

I try not to skate on public sessions!

Seriously, though, the difference is that if you watch someone on a public session, you don’t know his/her background unless you ask. So while there may be a feeling of “Gosh that person who’s my age skates so much better than I do,” it doesn’t automatically come with the added sting of, “and her first time ever on ice was a month ago, and she’s already learned to do all that!” I can remember that when I started, there were three older women who easily did back crossovers, waltz jumps, etc. (there weren’t enough adults to separate them by level) when I was still trying to learn backward swizzles. They were really helpful and encouraging, but I was pretty intimidated until I found out they’d been skating for 10 years.

To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people posting those videos (although I do sometimes wonder if one or two of them are fudging things a bit

). But the biggest thing for me - and I think this is what @tothepointe was saying - is that it’s helpful for a complete beginner to be able to put what they’re seeing on YouTube in perspective: the skaters who post their progress there are probably not the norm, and in fact, many people progress much more slowly.

tothepointe · Mar 9, 2018

Tavi... said:
Nothing wrong with your idea in theory, but in reality, I agree with tothepointe.

As an adult recreational skater, I love watching and learning from people who are more advanced than I am - whether it’s the ones who compete at Worlds, or the junior/senior level skaters I see at my local rink.

But the adult “progress” videos on YouTube - at least the ones I’ve seen - don’t present a balanced or realistic picture of how fast most adult beginners progress, for the simple reason that the people who struggle with the basics - and that’s a good chunk of the adult beginners I’ve seen - don’t post videos on YouTube showing themselves doing bad crossovers for weeks on end. Rather, the people who post all seem to have breezed through basic skills in record time with no hiccups and started jumping and spinning and doing Ina Bauers practically immediately.

I don’t doubt that some adult beginners really are that super talented - but I’d guess it’s about the same percentage of the population as become top models - which is to say, not very many, and nowhere near as many as you’d think by looking at YouTube videos. It’s not that the videos are bad in themselves; it’s that they skew the idea of what’s “normal” by not showing the whole spectrum of adult skaters.

Yeah that's basically what I meant but said it in a very clumsily way. Also I was referring primarily to the videos titled with Progress after 2/4/6 months. I watched them and thought that will be me! in 2/4/6months. My coach at the time told me to stop watching youtube. So I started filming myself instead. I have at least a years worth of bad crossover videos before I really felt like I "got" it.

There are some youtube channels I like. In particular, WaltzJumps who posts her adult coffee club sessions because you get to see a wide variety of skaters all trying the moves of the weeks with different levels of mastery.

Also when your a raw beginner you don't really know what's good. I really like the rinktank apps for the iphone and Ice Coach Online.

dorispulaski · Mar 10, 2018

sinnerspinner said:
What is mif?

Moves in the Field
http://gofigureskating.com/tests/MV/intro.html

Moxiejan · Mar 10, 2018

As a former adult skater (former skater, still an adult, lol) who eventually had to stop because of injury:

Very early, think about WHY you are skating and what makes you HAPPIEST about it. If you really want to compete at adult nationals or whatever, then do all the testing in the "normal" order and practice things that you don't enjoy. Especially the things you aren't naturally good at. As a compulsively competitive person, that's what I did. And, years later, I regret it.

I wish I had spent every minute of my ice time doing only what I loved: spirals and bauers and spins and loop jumps, with lots of good-direction 3-turns and NO forward crossovers. All in interpretation to whatever fun/pretty music happened to be playing. I still have dreams about it. I still imagine moves & programs while driving in my car ....

fluffypancake · Mar 11, 2018

(deleted message)

fluffypancake · Mar 11, 2018

Mussique said:
Me to me circa October 2017:

—Don't trust those in the public sessions with better intentions than technique. If a hockey-skates-wearing-middle-aged-good-samaritan tries to teach you, run in the other direction.
—Cheap guards = don't. Worthless. Cheap skates = well, better than rentals, but you'll end up buying good ones in two weeks, so think it over some more.
—Look at your knees. It's the last time you're going to see them bruises-free in a long-long time.
—Those are not crossovers. What are you doing with your life. You cross the other foot. Omg. Please just stop.
—No, that's not the correct way of going backwards either. Also you look like you're dancing to Anaconda.
—Record yourself, watch yourself. Don't cry in the corner, it can be fixed.
—Bend your knees, for all that is dear to you, please.
—Spend 0,3 seconds googling how to grab your leg for #$@$## Biellmann and Y spirals.
—I really shouldn't be telling you this, but, if you feel something snap, please stop.
—It's called Waltz Jump for a reason, not Waltz Half-Step With Flaying Arms.
—I know you're worried in the half-nanosecond you're jumping a black hole will suddenly appear in the ice and swallow you, but looking all the damn time down to the ice won't help you any.
—Can. You. Just. Stop. Overrotating. The. Shoulders??

Thanks for all the advice!

Would you mind elaborating a bit more on the part about crossovers. I feel like I'd gotten my crossovers recently but now I'm worried :laugh:

Girlbird · Mar 12, 2018

Miss Ice said:
I didn't start as an adult, but as an adult now, I really wish I focused more on the MIF elements rather than jumps in my first year of starting to skate as a teenager. I'm sure this is true for athletic adults too, who are more eager to do the FS stuff rather than the tedious MIF patterns. But man, do I wish I learned more patterns and trained more different turns in the very beginning.

OMG THIS. I clearly missed so many of those things when I was 11 and starting to skate and got bumped up into higher levels because of my aptitude for spins and jumps and spirals. Still can't do a t-stop on my bad leg and I barely remember any patterns. Once I can afford private lessons I'll be working a lot on the basics I imagine!

Mussique · Mar 13, 2018

fluffypancake said:
Thanks for all the advice!

Would you mind elaborating a bit more on the part about crossovers. I feel like I'd gotten my crossovers recently but now I'm worried

Hmm I had a lot of on-off coaching (due to outside reasons) and very bad advice in between so I tried to do proper crossovers before getting the hang of crossing the feet.

I made every mistake in the book:

-at first I actually tried to cross the inside foot (I'm frankly unable to recreate this right now) /this was what I referenced on my first post, because watching early videos I feel so much second hand embarrassment...
-I did half fishes and then a strange crossing motion behind it with the inside feet to do another half swizzle and called that crossover.
[[ This is because I saw professionals doing what looked like just "sliding the outside foot over the inside one and then stepping with the inside one", when it's...not that.]]
-I didn't push on the crossovers or did it so incorrectly I didn't gain any speed
-I was facing everywhere but the center of the circle.
-I wasn't careful with the edge and had my weight on the wrong place on backward crossovers
-Often my blades would click. I've fallen during awful crossovers more times than I can count.
- I used the toepick to push. I still scratch it with the ice sometimes...

Idk. I think I'm a example at crossovers. A bad example..., but hey, an example overall. I've done all the possible wrongs you can do with this and more, I think. As you can see, I'm not precisely a fast learner :laugh:

I've had to rework my whole technique and they still aren't smooth: you're supposed to be able to keep a rythm with them and I'm unable to, they're supposed to look super elegant because you're combining flexion and extension in your legs and I look...not super elegant. I'm also awful at combining them with other MIF. But well, still working on it :laugh:

Long way to go...

Adult Skaters: One Thing You Wish You Knew

tothepointe

jf12

jf12

kelliusmaximus

kelliusmaximus

tothepointe

jf12

HopeSpringsEternal

cl2

Silver Ice

Tavi...

jf12

Tavi...

tothepointe

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Moxiejan

fluffypancake

fluffypancake

Girlbird

Mussique

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