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Thread: 2018 Junior World Championships Ladies FS

  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    Let me rephrase my original statement. We clearly see that most girls in Russia at 13 are nowhere near an adolescent body type. Their body is of a pubescent child. Don't ask me why. Boys at 15 are usually in the middle of puberty -- they are adolescents -- and changes are already happening. They are way closer to being fully developed than a pubescent child of Trusova's type is.

    Also, I am a woman, I know when puberty happens. That is why I think it's a little unnatural that there are SO many girls in Russian figure skating who look pubescent at the age of 13, 14, and even 15. For instance, I was already 167cm at 13 yo and easily passed for an 18-year-old with makeup. Kind of like Anna Pogo, actually (and I'm of the same nationality, haha). In contrast, the bodies of the girls in this "new Eteri generation" are so underdeveloped at 13 that there is no way I would ever give them any age above 12-13 no matter what they are wearing. This is a little unnerving.
    Puberty age for girls vary a lot btw. While you could pass for an 18 years old at 13, many girls actually look their age. For me, Trusova looks like a regular 13 years old to me. I looked like that at 13, and most my friends looked like that at 13, so I don't really understand the "underdeveloped" part here, as you seem to take your own early development as average for Russia. The physical development pace varies a lot across different countries. There are also other factors that may affect it (for example, intense physical activity is known to delay puberty).

    Anyways, as for development stage - in fact, the worst moment to learn and do difficult elements is when your body in in the middle of development, not yet a child body, and not yet the adult body. So if we use your argument that Sasha is still a kid and Nathan was in the middle of puberty, his case is actually more serious and dangerous. Basically its the worst moment: the bones grow quite fast, and muscles don't really follow, which, combined with physical strain, results in injuries.

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriel View Post
    Puberty age for girls vary a lot btw. While you could pass for an 18 years old at 13, many girls actually look their age. For me, Trusova looks like a regular 13 years old to me. I looked like that at 13, and most my friends looked like that at 13, so I don't really understand the "underdeveloped" part here, as you seem to take your own early development as average for Russia. The physical development pace varies a lot across different countries. There are also other factors that may affect it (for example, intense physical activity is known to delay puberty).

    Anyways, as for development stage - in fact, the worst moment to learn and do difficult elements is when your body in in the middle of development, not yet a child body, and not yet the adult body. So if we use your argument that Sasha is still a kid and Nathan was in the middle of puberty, his case is actually more serious and dangerous. Basically its the worst moment: the bones grow quite fast, and muscles don't really follow, which, combined with physical strain, results in injuries.
    My boyfriend is a teacher and teaches to girls around that age (they are mainly 14, 13 and a half if they started school earlier)...I found it a bit telling that once I showed him a junior competition and he asked me "How old are they? 10". I told them that they were at least 13 years old and he told me that they looked for the most part younger than his pupils (he has around 75-100 a year, most of them girls). It is known that intensive training can delay puberty: https://scholar.google.it/scholar?q=...lfDBwQgQMIJTAA

    ETA: about Nathan, in fact he has had several injuries, the most recent of which in 2016 (at least that we know of).

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    OMG! The three Russian ladies here sort of mirror the seniors the athlete - Zagitva, the perfect mix of artistry and jumps but not enough to be the athlete Medeveda and the bland solid skater Sotskova. And then the Japanese ladies with their smallish jumps and the disappointing Americans.
    What about this? It's rather a rotation speed being a key factor in juniors

  4. #784
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    Is there any reference as to what time frame these rotation speeds were taken? Some of the girls have been hitting puberty, so I’m curious as to whether or not they were recorded before or after. This also emphasizes that the prepubescent and straight, narrow boned body types have an advantage in higher difficulty jumps.

    It’s also interesting to note that the fastest rotational jump for many of the girls is the 3Lo. Considering that and it’s higher base value, it surprises me that +3Lo isn’t being used more than the +3T in combinations, especially given how competitive the field is.

    It also looks like I’ll be sitting in my rocking chair with the cats for a year or two to see if Sofia Akatieva becomes the next Eteri Quad Princess with the Loop

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethOnIce View Post
    Is there any reference as to what time frame these rotation speeds were taken? Some of the girls have been hitting puberty, so I’m curious as to whether or not they were recorded before or after. This also emphasizes that the prepubescent and straight, narrow boned body types have an advantage in higher difficulty jumps.

    It’s also interesting to note that the fastest rotational jump for many of the girls is the 3Lo. Considering that and it’s higher base value, it surprises me that +3Lo isn’t being used more than the +3T in combinations, especially given how competitive the field is.

    It also looks like I’ll be sitting in my rocking chair with the cats for a year or two to see if Sofia Akatieva becomes the next Eteri Quad Princess with the Loop
    this is from the current season's competitions (mostly JGP and national competitions)
    source (its on russian but you can translate it by google or anything else)

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by BossT View Post
    Alena KOSTORNAIA - EX Gala, JWC 2018
    https://youtu.be/rZpffBWnoro
    Alexandra TRUSOVA - EX Gala, JWC 2018
    https://youtu.be/kh5Cz206HJQ
    Alexandra TRUSOVA - 4T + Chic Cantilever!! EX Gala, JWC 2018
    https://youtu.be/YLCXdW7nWCE
    Holy cow. That cantilever. Holy cow. And the quad. So easy.

  7. #787
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    I was very impressed with Young You. Nice jumps, wonderful command of the ice.

  8. #788
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    Warm Up 4 Group - FP, Ladies, JWC 2018 (SASHA: 2 Quads)
    https://youtu.be/C3EXWuOIkCs


    HERE Sasha already HANGED her rivals psychologically with her quads, after which they did not perform very well in the FP!!)) SHE NEEDS her OWN Wam-Up WITHOUT others!)))))))))))

  9. #789
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    Jesus Christ Eteri girls are going to OWN the next generation, quads-optional.

  10. #790
    Let the sky fall~ Miss Ice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colormyworld240 View Post
    Genetics play a big role in when one goes through puberty. Maybe for Russians it's just later? It's the case for many Asian women as well, and I kind of experienced that. But also diet has a huge impact as well. I find in American and Canada, girls go through puberty earlier than in Europe; our foods have a lot of hormones and also the types of foods we ingest in our part of the world, which may result in that as well. It's hard to tell. Of course there are those in Russia that go through puberty earlier as well, like Daria Panenkova, Polina Tsurskaya, etc.
    LOL, it's not "later for Russians" - I tell you this as a Russian and knowing a ton of people who are Russian and went through puberty. I'd say by 13 all of my female Russian friends started going through puberty, with no exception. None of them did a professional sport though. Daria, Anna P., and even Alina Z. are closer representatives of how girls normally go through puberty. None of them were totally pubescent at 13.5 years old like Trusova.

    Quote Originally Posted by moriel View Post
    Puberty age for girls vary a lot btw. While you could pass for an 18 years old at 13, many girls actually look their age. For me, Trusova looks like a regular 13 years old to me. I looked like that at 13, and most my friends looked like that at 13, so I don't really understand the "underdeveloped" part here, as you seem to take your own early development as average for Russia. The physical development pace varies a lot across different countries. There are also other factors that may affect it (for example, intense physical activity is known to delay puberty).
    Trusova doesn't "look her age". She looks 12 at most. And it's not "early development" - I think starting puberty and having a growth spurt at 13 is quite common fo girls - as you said yourself! It is also when many girls go through growth spurts (that is the biggest reason I'd pass for an older teen at that age - height makes a big difference tbh - you can't honestly look at a 148cm girl and automatically think she is 13+ years old).

    But yeah, as lappo said, it might be due to intense training.

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    LOL, it's not "later for Russians" - I tell you this as a Russian and knowing a ton of people who are Russian and went through puberty. I'd say by 13 all of my female Russian friends started going through puberty, with no exception. None of them did a professional sport though. Daria, Anna P., and even Alina Z. is representative of how girls go through puberty while doing professional sport. None of them were pubescent at 13 like Trusova.
    Do you spend as much time concerning yourself with the Japanese Ladies obsessing over their body types?

    https://instagram.com/p/BZWhLAoBh8u/

    I’m sure the Satoko fans would love you for it

  12. #792
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    In December2018 on JGPF sixladieswill showa full set ofQs, except 4A, Qs in cascades, solo 3A and 3A+... Guesswhat is their coach'sname.
    I wonder how USA/Canada and Europe coaches will explain their inability to teach their students triple jumps?

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    Trusova doesn't "look her age". She looks 12 at most. And it's not "early development" - I think starting puberty and having a growth spurt at 13 is quite common fo girls - as you said yourself! It is also when many girls go through growth spurts (that is the biggest reason I'd pass for an older teen at that age - height makes a big difference tbh - you can't honestly look at a 148cm girl and automatically think she is 13+ years old).

    But yeah, as lappo said, it might be due to intense training.
    You get that there's a very wide range in terms of how people develop, right? I went back and looked at pictures of myself at 13. I was just as a little and skinny as Sasha is. Maybe a touch taller. I wasn't doing any intense training and I ate whatever I wanted all the time. That was just natural for me. And I had a couple of friends who had very similar body types. Of course the intense training might contribute, but I don't think you can assume that her body type isn't natural for her right now. I wouldn't automatically go "she seems young" if I saw her in a middle school. What age teenagers look compared to what age they actually are can vary a lot.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    Trusova doesn't "look her age". She looks 12 at most. And it's not "early development" - I think starting puberty and having a growth spurt at 13 is quite common fo girls - as you said yourself! It is also when many girls go through growth spurts (that is the biggest reason I'd pass for an older teen at that age - height makes a big difference tbh - you can't honestly look at a 148cm girl and automatically think she is 13+ years old).
    13 years old is the age where some girls have grown a lot, some are in the process, and some will start later. Especially for athletes at this high level, the tendency will be for them to grow slightly later (obviously genetics pay a larger role). Meaning that what people look like with vary widely. Perhaps Trusova is just a person that grows a bit later or has a smaller body type. 148cm isn't even that short for a 13 year old.

    While you may have been 167cm at 13yo, I will never in my life be that tall. That may be normal for you, but not everyone is you, so their normals will be different. If you were approx 153cm at 13yo, that would have been concerning for you. But that was my height at the time and there was no concern for me. In my dance class of the past several years, I'm visibly shorter and have a body type that looks less adult-like than my peers despite being one of the earlier ones to grow (we are all ancestrally from approx the same area). That doesn't make me look significantly younger than my peers or unnaturally small/young; I just have a different body type and am a shorter person (due to genes etc.), but that does not make me developmentally inferior.

  15. #795
    Bona Fide Member Shayuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    Trusova doesn't "look her age". She looks 12 at most. And it's not "early development" - I think starting puberty and having a growth spurt at 13 is quite common fo girls - as you said yourself! It is also when many girls go through growth spurts (that is the biggest reason I'd pass for an older teen at that age - height makes a big difference tbh - you can't honestly look at a 148cm girl and automatically think she is 13+ years old).
    That's not the case. People have a wide variety of body types and there can be large individual differences between 13-year-olds, but they still certainly look 13. Just like Trusova definitely looks like she's 13 years old to me.

    By what you're saying, you'd think she was 17 or something.

    If you use yourself as an example "who were 167cm" that's not the case for everyone. There are girls whose adult height is 150cm. There are ectomorphs. People are different.

  16. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    LOL, it's not "later for Russians" - I tell you this as a Russian and knowing a ton of people who are Russian and went through puberty. I'd say by 13 all of my female Russian friends started going through puberty, with no exception. None of them did a professional sport though. Daria, Anna P., and even Alina Z. are closer representatives of how girls normally go through puberty. None of them were totally pubescent at 13.5 years old like Trusova.



    Trusova doesn't "look her age". She looks 12 at most. And it's not "early development" - I think starting puberty and having a growth spurt at 13 is quite common fo girls - as you said yourself! It is also when many girls go through growth spurts (that is the biggest reason I'd pass for an older teen at that age - height makes a big difference tbh - you can't honestly look at a 148cm girl and automatically think she is 13+ years old).

    But yeah, as lappo said, it might be due to intense training.
    Well, I'm 1/4 Russian and 3/4 Asian but I live in Canada and I went through puberty earlier. But my parents (Asian) and my grandmother (Russian) went through puberty way later, at around 15, and looked like a kid up until then like Sasha. So I don't understand the "LOL" I don't see anything funny. The fact is that there are a wide variety of factors that play into when someone goes through puberty, and people do at different ages. There's nothing strange about a 13 year old still looking like a child. Please become more informed before you ridicule someone else's comments.

  17. #797
    All Hail the Queen Crossover's Avatar
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    I haven't read anything but I must say I was really thrilled with Trusova's landing on her two quads! She is a little firecracker that can shake off the current ladies' field if she keeps going on with the tech. She lacks presentation and refinement yet, but is still 13 years old, so it would be a great pleasure for me to have witnessed her growth as a skater.

    I was also impressed by Yamashita and Lim in the FS while Kostornaia was the most impressive skater in the SP. Congrats to all the medalists!

  18. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by frallik View Post
    In December2018 on JGPF sixladieswill showa full set ofQs, except 4A, Qs in cascades, solo 3A and 3A+... Guesswhat is their coach'sname.
    I wonder how USA/Canada and Europe coaches will explain their inability to teach their students triple jumps?
    The arrogance..... But i wonder, how Eteri will explain her inability to teach her students to be well rounded skaters with LONG CAREERS. Maybe she should ask the USA/Canada and Europe coaches how to do it.

  19. #799
    Bona Fide Member Shayuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    The arrogance..... But i wonder, how Eteri will explain her inability to teach her students to be well rounded skaters with LONG CAREERS. Maybe she should ask the USA/Canada and Europe coaches how to do it.
    The circumstances are quite different.

    If even someone like Sakhanovich was skating for a country like Italy, I'm sure she could have a very lengthy, formidable career as she would have no pressure to get replaced and could deal with her issues in peace.

    In Russia, there's 2-3 superior skaters moving up to seniors almost every season. This means that these will just replace the older skaters. After that point, the older skaters will probably feel like they can no longer catch up and that it's not a smart decision to continue putting everything into the skating career, when it's not certain whether something will come out of it. On the other hand, if such a skater was skating for Italy for instance, they could be confident that they would be able to sustain themselves and continue competing internationally until the end of time, essentially.

    You look at the consistency of the jumps of someone like Carolina Kostner. How long do you think she would last in Russia? She probably would never even have made the senior circuits and would have retired well before the age of 20.

  20. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayuki View Post
    You look at the consistency of the jumps of someone like Carolina Kostner. How long do you think she would last in Russia? She probably would never even have made the senior circuits and would have retired well before the age of 20.
    Is right to say that everything becoming difficult for the russian ladies when they starting to make too much mistake and the fed don't support them like before, but don't exaggerate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_W..._Championships

    We can better compare Carolina with Pogorilaya. Both lacking of consistency, similar style and structure, but in their first years of career have take a Bronze at Junior Worlds and a Bronze at Senior Worlds. Anna have win some european medals and is now injured, while Caro have wait until the twenty to win the European title. At now, Anna in good condition could still be the 3rd force on Russia, this year and the next, but what happen to her is not because of the Russian situation.

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