2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 104 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

colormyworld240

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
With the reduction in BV for the Lz and Lo, I think it would be wise for Alina and Sash to ditch their 3Lz-3Lo combo for -3T combo. The risk isn't worth that little increase in BV. Plus with new GOE scale, they both get more GOE for their -3T combos in the past, and both have had issues with the Lo combo in comps but not T combo. It would be smart for Eteri and their team to change this.
 
Shayuki

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
chopinskate said:
Alright. Do you think she has 3A potential?
Click to expand...
Trusova? Yes, she has 3A potential.

colormyworld240 said:
With the reduction in BV for the Lz and Lo, I think it would be wise for Alina and Sash to ditch their 3Lz-3Lo combo for -3T combo.
Click to expand...
The -3Lo combo isn't so that you can perform a -3Lo, it's so that you can repeat a 3F instead of a 3T. It actually becomes even more beneficial to -3Lo combo now, not less. Again, don't compare single elements. Look at the entire layout.
 
M

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Shayuki said:
Trusova? Yes, she has 3A potential.


The -3Lo combo isn't so that you can perform a -3Lo, it's so that you can repeat a 3F instead of a 3T. It actually becomes even more beneficial to -3Lo combo now, not less. Again, don't compare single elements. Look at the entire layout.
Click to expand...


Looking at Alina's layouts.
Her SP is 3Lz + 3Lo, 3F, 2A. Looks like she could ditch it here and do a 3Lz+3T instead.
Her FS is 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lz, 3S, 3F, 2A.
So here, she repeats 3F, 3Lz.

If she replaces 3Lz+3Lo with a 3Lz+3T, then she repeats 3Lz and 3T, so she would have to replace her solo 3F with a 3Lo, is that right?:
3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz+3T, 2A+3T, 3Lz, 3S, 3Lo, 2A.

So the difference would be the loss of a 3F and the gain of a 3T, which is -1.1 point in BV, not -0.7.
TBH not sure if she can compensate this in GOE, even with new scales.
 
M

Miller

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
moriel said:
Looking at Alina's layouts.
Her SP is 3Lz + 3Lo, 3F, 2A. Looks like she could ditch it here and do a 3Lz+3T instead.
Her FS is 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lz, 3S, 3F, 2A.
So here, she repeats 3F, 3Lz.

If she replaces 3Lz+3Lo with a 3Lz+3T, then she repeats 3Lz and 3T, so she would have to replace her solo 3F with a 3Lo, is that right?:
3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz+3T, 2A+3T, 3Lz, 3S, 3Lo, 2A.

So the difference would be the loss of a 3F and the gain of a 3T, which is -1.1 point in BV, not -0.7.
TBH not sure if she can compensate this in GOE, even with new scales.
Click to expand...

If Alina can still do her 3Lz-3Lo combo then she should gain under the new rules.

In the SP she would lose 0.1 points compared with a 3Lz-3T, 3F and 2A skater - the 3T has only gone down by 0.1 marks, but the 3Lo has by 0.2, all GOEs will be the same i.e. based on the 3Lz, 3F and 2A in both cases.

In the LP however she'll gain the 0.1 back because the 3F has stayed the same and the 3T has gone down by 0.1 (every other jump cancels out). Also the GOE for the 3F is 2.65 for a +5 (perfectly within her grasp I would have thought) whereas for a 3T it'll be 2.1 (embedded within something like a 2A-3T). Hence overall she should be in positive territory, maybe as much as 0.55 points if all goes well.
 
Shayuki

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
moriel said:
Looking at Alina's layouts.
Her SP is 3Lz + 3Lo, 3F, 2A. Looks like she could ditch it here and do a 3Lz+3T instead.
Her FS is 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lz, 3S, 3F, 2A.
So here, she repeats 3F, 3Lz.

If she replaces 3Lz+3Lo with a 3Lz+3T, then she repeats 3Lz and 3T, so she would have to replace her solo 3F with a 3Lo, is that right?:
3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz+3T, 2A+3T, 3Lz, 3S, 3Lo, 2A.

So the difference would be the loss of a 3F and the gain of a 3T, which is -1.1 point in BV, not -0.7.
TBH not sure if she can compensate this in GOE, even with new scales.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you're going for. But yes, the key is the 3Flip -> 3Toe, which is -1.1 in BV. Before the rule changes it would have been -1.0 in BV, so performing a -3Lo combo is now 0.1 more points in BV, which means that its value increases with the rule changes for skaters who are able to repeat 3Lz and 3F.

For the SP, it's effectively a loss of 0.1 points in comparison to what it currently is so I don't think that that should be much of a factor.
 
M

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Shayuki said:
I'm not sure what you're going for. But yes, the key is the 3Flip -> 3Toe, which is -1.1 in BV. Before the rule changes it would have been -1.0 in BV, so performing a -3Lo combo is now 0.1 more points in BV, which means that its value increases with the rule changes for skaters who are able to repeat 3Lz and 3F.

For the SP, it's effectively a loss of 0.1 points in comparison to what it currently is so I don't think that that should be much of a factor.
Click to expand...

Just translating it into numbers because i am a dummy and have no clue unless there is math in the middle.
Overall, I am not worried. Eteri is well known to be a top pointgrabber, so I am sure that her girls will have programs that maximize scores no matter what.
 
colormyworld240

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Shayuki said:
Trusova? Yes, she has 3A potential.


The -3Lo combo isn't so that you can perform a -3Lo, it's so that you can repeat a 3F instead of a 3T. It actually becomes even more beneficial to -3Lo combo now, not less. Again, don't compare single elements. Look at the entire layout.
Click to expand...

Yes but in SP her Lz-Lo combo is not that valuable. Historically, she's had more GOE on her 3Lz-3T combo in competition back when she was doing it in junior SP, and she's never messed it up, unlike the times 3Lz-3Lo gave her problems this season. I don't think it's worth the risk in SP. In FS, it is valuable, but the loop is the jump that had the greatest reduction in BV, so that combo is the one that gets hit the most. And its much easier to add a 3T to a scratchy Lz than a 3Lo. Obviously the -Lo combo is always worth more than -3T combo and lets her repeat the more difficult jumps in SP, but when you make mistakes on it, the consequences are more under new rules. I just think with the changes, she would have higher chances with the -3T, especially in SP.
 
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