2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Spirals for Miles · May 3, 2018

Why is this thread suddenly so petty and why is it never about the Russian ladies?? There's so many quality skaters to talk about and instead we're arguing the semantics of the word "multiple"??!!

Shayuki · May 3, 2018

I wonder if they are actually going to announce the youngsters' programs for next season soon... I'm quite interesting in the music choices for Kostornaia, Tarakanova and Trusova. And most of all, what sort of a FS Shcherbakova gets, though that doesn't matter as much... Any type of music should work for her as long as she gets appropriate choreography.

Scott512 · May 3, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
Why is this thread suddenly so petty and why is it never about the Russian ladies?? There's so many quality skaters to talk about and instead we're arguing the semantics of the word "multiple"??!!

Exactly.

Maybe we can even continue the closed thread about can anyone beat a clean Zagitova right here?

Shayuki · May 3, 2018

Sofia Dzepka's SP from today.

Her skating skills really are incredible. And not just for her age(8).

yoloaxel · May 3, 2018

Scott512 said:
Exactly.

Maybe we can even continue the closed thread about can anyone beat a clean Zagitova right here?

It depends on the new rules. If they take out the backloading bonus a clean Medvedeva could beat her since she was close to doing so this season, perhaps even a super clean Osmond considering the latest scores she got. But then again, Alina still has the most difficult combo on her part and she should get high GOEs, so in my opinion she's still going to be the one to beat bar any drastic changes.

Scott512 · May 3, 2018

yoloaxel said:
It depends on the new rules. If they take out the backloading bonus a clean Medvedeva could beat her since she was close to doing so this season, perhaps even a super clean Osmond considering the latest scores she got. But then again, Alina still has the most difficult combo on her part and she should get high GOEs, so in my opinion she's still going to be the one to beat bar any drastic changes.

Agreed.

I hope their are modest changes at most. It was 20 years between ladies Olympic Champions so there's no need to panic. If the isu raises the age from 15 to 16 that would be dumping on Alinas incredible year at a mere 15. Alina just had the greatest debut season ever. That should be admired not erased.

sweetice · May 3, 2018

Shayuki said:
Sofia Dzepka's SP from today.

Her skating skills really are incredible. And not just for her age(8).

Good flow. It seem to me that need to improve her arms movement, but wow, only 8 years old...

russianfan · May 3, 2018

if isu raises the age from 15 to 16 then expect Trusova to become the first lady ever to win 3 junior world titles :biggrin:

Resa · May 3, 2018

Fluture said:
Well, yes, that may be the case for you and others who are more invested in figure skating, but as I have many casual viewers in my family who know absolutely nothing about it, I can tell you that they mostly watch out for the presence of a skater on the ice and whether they fall or not. So seeing a skater who had no visible mistakes (e.g. step-outs, falls...) get severe point deductions just because they pre-rotated would greatly confuse them. And not only them but many, many more spectators. I‘m not saying that just because of the people in front of the TV, the rules should be lax or something like this, but we should definitely take into consideration that figure skating - like any sport - is kept alive not only by the athletes and the coaches but also the people who watch it, buy the tickets for competitions and shows etc.

Besides, there‘s also the fact that the current elite athletes mostly pre-rotate. Kaetlyn, Medvedeva, Zagitova, Miyahara and so on, so on. So what if Tuktamysheva‘s jumps look better? She‘s not been to Worlds, Olympics or anything this year....

And I definitely enjoy watching Zagitova jump. There’s nothing laboured as far as I can see. And Kaetlyn’s jumps are huge, even though she pre-rotates. That‘s just my opinion, though.

I do see where you are coming from

In my opinion though, the sport is mostly held alive not by casual viewers but by fans, and they are more likely to know about the sport nuances than the casual viewer. I also think that Zagitova's and Katelyn's jumps are great, but if you put them in a comparison to an un-pretotated jump, I think there is a clear difference. I do believe most of the consistency from Medvedeva and Zagitova comes from the fact that they prerotate (sometimes really heavily) because of course its easyer to land a jump that has only 2 - 2 1/2 rotations in the air than 3. So that would be at least one good thing that comes from prerotating even though it doesn't look as nice as a rotated jump. :biggrin:

Resa · May 3, 2018

Shayuki said:
I don't question that you find Tuktamysheva's jumps better to watch than Zagitova's or Medvedeva's. But I DO question that the reason is the pre-rotation! For a very obvious example, let's take:

Alexandra Trusova's SP 3Lutz

Elizaveta Berestovskaya's SP 3Lutz

Here, you'll note that Trusova pre-rotates by a huge amount(180 degrees). On the other hand, Berestovskaya has just about the most perfect Lutz technique I've ever seen out of a Russian lady. She doesn't pre-rotate in the slightest, not the tiniest bit(as close to 0 degrees of pre-rotation I've seen anyone get). But Trusova's jump is massive, while Berestovskaya's is tiny. In a situation like this, do you still think that Berestovskaya's perfectly non- pre-rotated Lutz is better to watch? Or is the reason behind Tuktamysheva's Lutz being better to watch something completely different altogether? Notable that Berestovskaya's technique is also better than Tuktamysheva's on her Lutz.

Well Trusova has exceptional power, hasn't she? :love:

Surely jumping ability is also a big factor with prerotation. If your're blessed with jumping talent, you are more likely to not need to prerotate jumps, while others rely on it to be able to jump triples. And others like Trusova maybe just learned it the wrong style and think it belongs this way?
However, I think it's more accurate to compare skaters within about the same jumping talent as well as jumping style, that's why I picked Zagitova and Tuktamysheva, who have for example both big air and power to represent my opinion, and not i.e Lipnitskaya and Tuktamysheva or Trusova/Berestovskaya or other different style jumpers.

moriel · May 3, 2018

russianfan said:
if isu raises the age from 15 to 16 then expect Trusova to become the first lady ever to win 3 junior world titles

I don't think they would do it.
Basically, doing such change right now would mean russian girls on all podiums in juniors for the next 2 years, and nearly 0 chance for everybody else. This also means less opportunities for the juniors from other countries to build up reputation and get senior GP spots and so on. And ofc would keep other juniors from turning senior too, so dunno. It could backfire.

Sam-Skwantch · May 3, 2018

Serafima landed a 3z-3lo in practice today!! :rock:

Maybe it was a 3f-3lo or a nasty 3z(e)-3lo but it’s nice to see her still putting in work and adding a 3lo #NeverGiveUp

Elucidus · May 3, 2018

moriel said:
I don't think they would do it.
Basically, doing such change right now would mean russian girls on all podiums in juniors for the next 2 years, and nearly 0 chance for everybody else. This also means less opportunities for the juniors from other countries to build up reputation and get senior GP spots and so on. And ofc would keep other juniors from turning senior too, so dunno. It could backfire.

Yeah, most likely they wouldn't. But it can change after next season. I mean if the next season will pass under the banner of Trusova/Scherbakova quads - isu officials can get scared of too drastic changes in power balance in next senior season and can decide to ban them for a year - however as pitiful as it sounds. Or maybe I am just too paranoid and rules changes can occur only once each 2 years? Was there isu congress last year?

icetug · May 3, 2018

moriel said:
Basically, doing such change right now would mean russian girls on all podiums in juniors for the next 2 years, and nearly 0 chance for everybody else.

I don't think ISU cares about Russian ladies sweeping JW podium - it happened twice in last five years. The only reason would be to prevent a revolution in senior circuit. Postponing junior ladies means: 1. they will have to proof that their jumping abiblity is not only a prepuberty benefit; 2. senior ladies will have one more year to learn more difficult jumps (quads, 3A, combinations) to compete with teens.

moriel · May 3, 2018

icetug said:
I don't think ISU cares about Russian ladies sweeping JW podium - it happened twice in last five years. The only reason would be to prevent a revolution in senior circuit. Postponing junior ladies means: 1. they will have to proof that their jumping abiblity is not only a prepuberty benefit; 2. senior ladies will have one more year to learn more difficult jumps (quads, 3A, combinations) to compete with teens.

I dont think they would act that fast. They usually change the rules after it actually happens
For example, they changed the GOE scale after Yuna got her monster Vancouver score.
The new changes are proposed after Medvedeva dominated seniors for 3 seasons, and then 1 season of Zagitova and junior backloaders.

My guess here is that they would wait to see how things develop (i mean, how many clean quads trusova landed in competition this season? is it such a big deal if she does it once a season only? How many other girls will do it in competition?)

atsumiri · May 3, 2018

Elucidus said:
Yeah, most likely they wouldn't. But it can change after next season. I mean if the next season will pass under the banner of Trusova/Scherbakova quads - isu officials can get scared of too drastic changes in power balance in next senior season and can decide to ban them for a year - however as pitiful as it sounds. Or maybe I am just too paranoid and rules changes can occur only once each 2 years? Was there isu congress last year?

this.

read Proposals to ISU Congress 2018-2019 Season
there are no any proposals about raising the age

moriel · May 3, 2018

icetug said:
I don't think ISU cares about Russian ladies sweeping JW podium - it happened twice in last five years. The only reason would be to prevent a revolution in senior circuit. Postponing junior ladies means: 1. they will have to proof that their jumping abiblity is not only a prepuberty benefit; 2. senior ladies will have one more year to learn more difficult jumps (quads, 3A, combinations) to compete with teens.

Oh, I actually think they do care because that means podium sweeps a few years later in seniors.
So for example I see the backloading issue. First, it was just Med. Then, there was Zagi and other junior girls, and it looked as it would translate well into seniors - this is why we have the new rule proposals.

I kinda expect similar logic for quads - once there are quadsters in seniors, isu will start worrying. Just juniors doing quads not a big issue, because they may as well lose those jumps as they grow. But once they have girls doing quads in seniors, and more juniors with quads incoming, then it will be a worry.

Scott512 · May 4, 2018

moriel said:
I don't think they would do it.
Basically, doing such change right now would mean russian girls on all podiums in juniors for the next 2 years, and nearly 0 chance for everybody else. This also means less opportunities for the juniors from other countries to build up reputation and get senior GP spots and so on. And ofc would keep other juniors from turning senior too, so dunno. It could backfire.

Brilliant point. I didnt even think of that. but the isu may think the Russian girls are going to dominate the Juniors anyway and may try to save the senior-level ladies for as long as possible by keeping the great Russian Junior's Juniors as long as possible.

Kate34555 · May 4, 2018

Last news
Medvedeva stops cooperation with Eteri

yoloaxel · May 4, 2018

Kate34555 said:
Last news
Medvedeva stops cooperation with Eteri

Polina as well, apparently she's going to CSKA :shocked:

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

Shayuki

Scott512

Shayuki

yoloaxel

Scott512

sweetice

Praise the Ice God

russianfan

Match Penalty

Resa

Resa

moriel

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Elucidus

Match Penalty

icetug

moriel

atsumiri

moriel

Scott512

Kate34555

yoloaxel

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