2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Ice Dance said:

If you only have 6 countries that bother to compete in your sport because athletes from only 6 countries can get into the top 24, then you do not have an Olympic sport. In order to qualify as an Olympic sport, the sport must be valid in a number of countries.

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That's a good point. If the ISU wanted to make major changes to the world championship eligibility, they would have to separate themselves somewhat from the perception that figure skating exists only in relation to the Olympics.

That might not be an entirely bad thing. The sport could go along its merry way and then every four years jump on the Olympic train for a season. There is no reason why the rules for Worlds have to be the same as the rules for the Olympics, which must satisfy IOC requirements.

Life isn't fair. It is only fair when you get what you want. I hear all sorts of what shoulld have happened,what is fair? It is in the eye of the beholder. Who should have won the OGM? Who should have medalled; who shouldhavenot it is all perspective. And who are we to say what is fair?Yes there were some Russian cheaters and they should not propser but just because some cheated do we penalize all Russian athletes? I do have great empathy for Liza and even Evgenia who has been villafied. Evgenia did not make the decision who goes to worlds. All she did was skate the best she could. Ditto for Aurora - and there just happened to be a spot open. I hope Evgenia and Liza both grow from this and become better skaters and likewise for Aurora This is a wonderful opportunity for her. Is it fair? Well you be the judge.

Osmond4gold said:

My point is Mathman, this is the reality and not an "unfunny joke", as some here have called it here. You reap what you sow, and as a result of Kaetlyn and Gabby's efforts, Canadians women deserves their 3 spots at Worlds '19, regardless of some here who think it should not be, so.

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I think you took the wrong message from the "unfunny joke" comment.

Manitou said:

I agree that Kaetlyn winning spot for Aurora is an unfunny joke. The rule that previous championship affect the next one is ridiculous by any mean.

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Manitou's point is not to put down Kaetlyn and Gabby. That is just a throw-away example of the kind of situation that Manitpou wants to discuss. It is the second sentence that bears the thrust if Manitou's position: That it is against the principles of sport for one athlete to win a reward for another. (In fact, it is an unfunny joke that the ISU rules allow this to happen: last year was last year, this year is this year.)

One can disagree, of course.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Not that I’ve seen but this thread could really use something like that

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https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...with-mothers-of-Samsonov-Shcherbakova-Trusova

here you go, folks

Without Liza leading the team and a very competitive Japanese trio who are extra motivated to perform well in front of the home crowd, it is likely that the Russian Ladies would be fighting for 4th place against Bradie, who has a higher average score (200.31) than both Sofia (199.94) and Zhenya (198.54), the top two Russians based on recent performances. Realistically under the current rules, they would need a 4th + 9th, 5th + 8th, 6th + 7th to get three spots for next year, which is not an easy task given they will also be facing Mariah, Elizabet, and Loena, who have average scores in the 190s as well. There is a chance though as they aren't competing with the reigning WGM and the 2012 WGM, who would have probably rounded out the Top 5.

BillNeal said:

Without Liza leading the team and a very competitive Japanese trio who are extra motivated to perform well in front of the home crowd, it is likely that the Russian Ladies would be fighting for 4th place against Bradie, who has a higher average score (200.31) than both Sofia (199.94) and Zhenya (198.54), the top two Russians based on recent performances. Realistically under the current rules, they would need a 4th + 9th, 5th + 8th, 6th + 7th to get three spots for next year, which is not an easy task given they will also be facing Mariah, Elizabet, and Loena, who have average scores in the 190s as well. There is a chance though as they aren't competing with the reigning WGM and the 2012 WGM, who would have probably rounded out the Top 5.

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Or Alina will be in top 2, and Sonia will repeat her Euros performance, ending in top 5, thus winning the 3 spots for next year.

Osmond4gold said:

We all knew the rules going into Worlds. I will say that under the present rules Russia must be feeling like they won the loto, as they barely earned 3 spots or 13th in placement versus Canadian women who easily won their right in 8th. As a result, Skate Canada has every right under the rules to send who they wish based on previous World placements, versus some here who live with a coulda, shoulda, woulda, attitude.

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It was a fluctuation that will naturally end this year.

So Canadian ladies are better than Russian ladies because they were 8 to 13 at Worlds 2018?
What about the Russians earning 1+2, in comparison to Canada’s 3+15 at the Olympics?

Of course I like Osmond, and think all her medals are completely deserved, but you can’t just look at one competition and judge an entire country of skaters based off of it.

BillNeal said:

Without Liza leading the team and a very competitive Japanese trio who are extra motivated to perform well in front of the home crowd, it is likely that the Russian Ladies would be fighting for 4th place against Bradie, who has a higher average score (200.31) than both Sofia (199.94) and Zhenya (198.54), the top two Russians based on recent performances. Realistically under the current rules, they would need a 4th + 9th, 5th + 8th, 6th + 7th to get three spots for next year, which is not an easy task given they will also be facing Mariah, Elizabet, and Loena, who have average scores in the 190s as well. There is a chance though as they aren't competing with the reigning WGM and the 2012 WGM, who would have probably rounded out the Top 5.

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But Sofia has been steadily increasing, while Bradie has only stagnated. Sofia always performs almost clean, without Bradie’s biggest enemy: URs plaguing her score. I fully expect Sofia to be a strong fourth place or even podium finisher, after all she did beat Satoko and the GPF. And same with Zhenya, her last competition was very good, and hopefully she can improve. And Alina, all the luck to her! A clean Alina can challenge Rika Kihira for FIRST place.

TripleAxelQueens3 said:

But Sofia has been steadily increasing, while Bradie has only stagnated. Sofia always performs almost clean, without Bradie’s biggest enemy: URs plaguing her score. I fully expect Sofia to be a strong fourth place or even podium finisher, after all she did beat Satoko and the GPF. And same with Zhenya, her last competition was very good, and hopefully she can improve. And Alina, all the luck to her! A clean Alina can challenge Rika Kihira for FIRST place.

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So nice to read a positive post about all 3 ladies.

TripleAxelQueens3 said:

But Sofia has been steadily increasing, while Bradie has only stagnated. Sofia always performs almost clean, without Bradie’s biggest enemy: URs plaguing her score. I fully expect Sofia to be a strong fourth place or even podium finisher, after all she did beat Satoko and the GPF. And same with Zhenya, her last competition was very good, and hopefully she can improve. And Alina, all the luck to her! A clean Alina can challenge Rika Kihira for FIRST place.

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You don't understand.

You have to factor the WORST scenario for the Russians and the ULTIMATE BEST scenario for everyone else except for Rika.
And factor in a little "ESP" to know that 2 skaters that haven't competed all season would be in the top 5.
Also - I noticed that another skater who has 3 Gold Medals and 2 Silver Medals this season is not even mentioned here.
But somehow it doesn't surprise me anymore.

lesnar001 said:

You don't understand.

You have to factor the WORST scenario for the Russians and the ULTIMATE BEST scenario for everyone else except for Rika.
And factor in a little "ESP" to know that 2 skaters that haven't competed all season would be in the top 5.
Also - I noticed that another skater who has 3 Gold Medals and 2 Silver Medals this season is not even mentioned here.
But somehow it doesn't surprise me anymore.

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Your response is confusing because you don’t refer to specific skaters. Please clarify :noshake:

Orlov said:

It was a fluctuation that will naturally end this year.

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Hubris is a funny thing. Like assuming a team will get 3 spots because they have tons of technically competitive skaters. And yet Japan lost their 3rd ladies spot two years ago, and Russia almost lost their 3rd spot last year in spite of having the top 2 from the GPF representing them at Worlds. It was also inconceivable that Russia would lose their stronghold and 3rd spot in ice dance, or that China would ever drop to 2 pairs spots. But stuff happens.

Sure, Russia may do better at Worlds this year and Canada might tank. But until then, Osmond is the current reigning World champion.

Of course, I'm sure everybody will understand should some of us say that the *only* reason Canada lost their 3rd spot is because Osmond wasn't there to defend her World title, and Canada did not field the strongest team possible to retain their spots, etc etc etc - the same way others are trying to justify Russia's performances at Worlds last year. Every country has good and bad years - including Russia. Russia is poised to truly dominate but people have been saying that for years and yet they haven't exactly dominated to the extent we expected.

One year Canada was 8th in every discipline at Worlds. And another year, we won the Olympic team gold medal. Everyone has their ups and downs even the countries with the most money, who care the most about results, care about figure skating in general, etc.

DeeDee18 said:

Your response is confusing because you don’t refer to specific skaters. Please clarify :noshake:

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My bad.

TripleAxelQueens3 had quoted another post.
It is on the previous page.
I should have quoted that one also.
Then it would make more sense.

Is the golden era of russian skating ended with Zagitova? Will the 3A's continue it or will puberty attack? Is it not possible Japan sweeps the podium in Japan? What if Lilbet skates well as does Lim or Paginini or teh Finnish lady and Bradie and Mariah and a revived Gabby skate well could Russia be in trouble?

I love how some people in this forum seem to believe they're able to predict the future of a skater or Federation, optmistically or pessimistically, whatever fits their great expectations...

We can debate the criteria for selection of number of skaters per country til we are blue in the face and it won't change anything for the upcoming worlds. Canada has 3 spots and Russia has 3 spots and Japan has 3 spots. Are Canada's 3 notably weaker than Russia or Japan's 3? Yes and I don't think it is even worth debating to be honest. It just is. After the 2019 Worlds this will be reshuffled. It is likely (in my mind) that Canada will be down to 1 spot (sorry but that is how I see it) and Russia and Japan will have 3. If you look at the status and rankings going in that seems to be what is likely to happen. I think the Russian Fed were in a lose-lose and a win-win situation here. First of all most other countries (except maybe Japan) would love to be in a situation of choosing btw those 3 ladies for the final spot. That is the win-win. The sheer depth of Russian ladies skating is breathtaking right now. The lose-lose is that having only one spot and 3 deserving skaters at least 2 camps were going to be disappointed and upset. I was hoping they would send Tukt even though I really like Evgenia and think Stanislava has lovely qualities. I like underdog stories and considering Liza's last few years it would be a wonderful comeback and quite heartwarming. I do understand sending Evgenia though. It is what it is.

If there is heartbreak now I can only look to this time next year and wonder how much disappointment there will be.

My suggestion for fixing the issue of representation has been for a long time to change the format of the GPF and have the top 10 from the Grand Prix season compete against each other there. Yes it might be 5 Russian Ladies, 3 Japanese, 1 Korean and 1 American but it would give a chance to those who are unlikely to make the world team in countries with very deep fields a chance to shine and compete. So that smaller feds do not get squeezed out of their spots at GP events I would suggest widening the fields to 15 (3 flights of 5) for singles.

I am especially looking forward to seeing Sofia skate btw. She is a very plucky young lady and while I do not enjoy her music in the long I do find her entertaining.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Hubris is a funny thing. Like assuming a team will get 3 spots because they have tons of technically competitive skaters. And yet Japan lost their 3rd ladies spot two years ago, and Russia almost lost their 3rd spot last year in spite of having the top 2 from the GPF representing them at Worlds. It was also inconceivable that Russia would lose their stronghold and 3rd spot in ice dance, or that China would ever drop to 2 pairs spots. But stuff happens.

Sure, Russia may do better at Worlds this year and Canada might tank. But until then, Osmond is the current reigning World champion.

Of course, I'm sure everybody will understand should some of us say that the *only* reason Canada lost their 3rd spot is because Osmond wasn't there to defend her World title, and Canada did not field the strongest team possible to retain their spots, etc etc etc - the same way others are trying to justify Russia's performances at Worlds last year. Every country has good and bad years - including Russia. Russia is poised to truly dominate but people have been saying that for years and yet they haven't exactly dominated to the extent we expected.

One year Canada was 8th in every discipline at Worlds. And another year, we won the Olympic team gold medal. Everyone has their ups and downs even the countries with the most money, who care the most about results, care about figure skating in general, etc.

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Sorry, but I do not see Canada have a future in women's figure skating in the coming years. You have neither seniors, nor what is the most important, juniors. However, this is all offtopic in this thread.

Ambivalent said:

The real stupidity is Worlds not being "Worlds" because of the 3-per-country rule. If Russia has the bulk of figure skating talent, let them enter, damn it.

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lesnar001 said:

You don't understand.

You have to factor the WORST scenario for the Russians and the ULTIMATE BEST scenario for everyone else except for Rika.
And factor in a little "ESP" to know that 2 skaters that haven't competed all season would be in the top 5.
Also - I noticed that another skater who has 3 Gold Medals and 2 Silver Medals this season is not even mentioned here.
But somehow it doesn't surprise me anymore.

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Skater Boy said:

Is the golden era of russian skating ended with Zagitova? Will the 3A's continue it or will puberty attack? Is it not possible Japan sweeps the podium in Japan? What if Lilbet skates well as does Lim or Paginini or teh Finnish lady and Bradie and Mariah and a revived Gabby skate well could Russia be in trouble?

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No.

I'd say the 1st part of the worst scenario for Russian ladies already executed. The 2nd part we will see soon.
Having two slots next year will be considered a success. Personally I'm very sorry for Kostornaya.

Actually RusFed may send two Kamikadze to WC-20 and "all the rest" to EC and lesser tournaments. Provided no trauma or sickness happen.