- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Of course , i meant artistic. XDI still hope you meant "artistic", not "arthritic".
2018-19 Japanese Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter yume
- Start date
Really enjoying watching this arms race.
https://vk.com/video-97272391_456240706
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg1LHsAn6aU/
Plz stay healthy.
Welcome to the party, You Young.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhGsHBLAfYn/
We need a Wakaba update soon.
Not bad for a 10yo https://mobile.twitter.com/marin_channel/status/980785827704815616/video/1
I saw a report saying that she did a 2A-3lo at a competition today/yesterday.
I saw a report saying that she did a 2A-3lo at a competition today/yesterday.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
Wow wow wow. It's so exciting to see a couple of ladies are bringing the 3A to the game.
Welcome to the party, You Young.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhGsHBLAfYn/
We need a Wakaba update soon.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
I think it is very realistic. Kaori beat Satoko at 4cc, and Wakaba beat Satoko at Worlds. Either is as consistent as Satoko, but the chances for one of them being perfect are higher than one.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2015
Rika will beat every one if she skates two clean programmes. But for senior, Satoko still has a lot of leverage over others depending on her health. Wakaba, Kaori are both inconsistent. Mai has more chances plus more room to improve. It will be impossible for someone to stay no.1 for longer period of time.
Mai, Wakaba and Kaori were not more inconsistents than Satoko this season. They rarely did more than error per competition and skated back to back clean programs.
At this state i think that Satoko can still win only if others make errors and her URs not called.
The problem for other girls is not only the PCS gap (which is not that big between her and Wakaba) but also the fact that Satoko can get the same TES than them at their max and even more (She has the highest TES of the season, 75 from olympics), while she has by far the worst jumps. And it's laughable.
I think the ability of others to beat her depends more of tech panel and judges' GOEs than consistency.
I agree for Rika. She can overtake everyone but maybe Wakaba if she get the 3A.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
But Satoko gets very little GOEs on her jumps. Where she earned GOEs are on her non jumps and especially her StSq and much as I dislike the mediocre jumps, I have to say she is arguably the best in the non jump elements.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
Satoko is the best Japanese lady in non jump elements and 100% deserves those GOE - agreed. But it's not true she gets "very little" GOE on her jumps, at least not when compared to her Japanese rivals. Outside of the jumps they made mistakes on, Satoko didn't get much less in GOE on her jumps then Wakaba. Waka got 8.21 points in GOE on her 8 positively rated jumps SP + LP (SP 2A + all from the LP). Satoko got 5.19 on her positively rated jumps, which where lower in number though, 6 (2 from SP, 4 from LP - everything that isn't a Lz or a S). If you take into account that Satoko had 2 clean jumping passes less - what is that, 1 to 2 points more for Waka in GOE on their jumps for the whole competition? That's not even close to an accurate reflection of what they're putting out on the ice.
By comaprison, Satoko got 11.58 in GOE on her non-jump elements. Waka got 7.93. Satoko getting more points there then Waka is, again, completely right. But the difference being bigger then the jump GOE difference, even taking into account Waka had 2 clean passes more? IMO, no.
(And I'm not using this as an argument for Satoko to get less of an advantage in spins + steps. I'm arguing about them being too close in jump GOE).
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2016
Part of this discrepancy is the fact that Satoko regularly gets lvl4 on her step sequences, while Wakaba usually gets lvl3. The GOE is quantified differently for lvl3 and lvl4.
I think that at this point Satoko does deserve higher GOEs, her steps look effortless but are actually extremely difficult. She is one of very few skaters whose steps coil in the opposite direction that she jumps in. I love Wakaba's steps because of her passion, timing and that twizzle
, but she still struggles executing all features cleanly enough to get lvl4, I hope that is something her team will address soon, as she loses costly points - Joined
- Feb 20, 2017
Some of the issue might also be coming from 3F GOE. Wakaba (whether it's as severe of a problem as the judges make it out to be) seems to get her GOE docked because of the usual ! calls and doesn't usually get above +1.0 (scaled) on what's usually a pretty good quality jump. I noticed in the FS this year there weren't a lot of steps going into her 3F either, which could also contribute. Then there's the whole issue with Wakaba's combos being less friendly to GOE. Her solo 2A and Satoko's solo 2A have the same GOE scaling, but Satoko's 2A+3T combo vs. Wakaba's 2A+2T+2Lo is actually worth more because it includes a triple jump. So if Satoko got a +1 GOE on her 2A+3T, it would translate to a +0.7 but Wakaba's combo would only receive +0.5 because there's no triple in the combo. Obviously it doesn't explain the whole story of Satoko's GOE advantage but it is a contributing factor.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
The 3F isn't as much of an issue regarding the numbers I posted from WC18 - in the SP it got negative GOE so it's out of the equation (as I focused on jumps that got +GOE). So there's only one in the LP.
Regarding their axel combinations, they got pretty much the same GOEs from the judges before factoring (with Waka having one +1 more where Satoko had a 0).
And level 4 steps would have gotten Waka around 0.46 points more. Even with that, Satoko would still out-GOE her in WC, albeit barely (16.77 vs. 16.6), but still with 2 jump errors more.
Hopefully the new 5 point scale will help give Wakaba a bigger advantage on the jumps but knowing the judges that could be wishful thinking. Lol
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
Disagree on the steps. Satoko still has the edge over Wakaba in basic SS although Wakaba is actually very good. The difference is that Satoko can make the difficult steps look easy and she interprets them far stronger than anyone except for CaroK. Where Satoko does so much better is in the turns in the opposite clockwise direction, something big which Wakaba does struggle a little. Where jumps are concerned, Wakaba should be getting higher because of her better air positions and lift. Where she needs to work on is the flow out of the jump. Satoko May have smallish jumps but she always hits them on time with the music and she holds her landing edge out on the e it which are both GOE grabbing assets. I dislike her heavy prerotation on the backend 3T and think those should be docked but I don’t deny that she gets good running edges out of the jumps.
I disagree. Satoko's running edges are almost non-existent compared to, for example, Kaori's. She is very good at hiding UR using her toe, though. It's a mystery to me why she never gets called on her 3F, in which she always lands UR and turns on her toe for as much as 1/2 rotation.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
Geez, so when "Satoko gets very little GOE" doesn't work you go over to the next myth? Honestly Satoko gets a better running edge or of her 3-3, but that's it. Where does Waka have less flow out of her 2A or 3S for example? Actually, I don't think I've seen Satoko have flow and speed out of any jump like Waka has out of her 3S.
And again, problems like Satoko always being short on rotation, even if she manages to barely make it less then 90 degrees, or her jumps being that small are actual bullet points for GOE reduction. Not justifiable its not justifiable.
I quote myself for the 2A-3lo video https://www.instagram.com/p/BhOC5UVgyuB/
Cute to see her wear Marin's costume. Like Mao with Mai's costumes.
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