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Thread: 2018-19 U.S. Menís figure skating

  1. #861
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    If you made the JGPF in the men's event, you were more consistent then LOADS of guys.

    Jordan has the minimums for 4CCs from Lombardia last season. He's relatively young, born the same year as Jimmy. Just doesn't have much of a track record for getting the job done in competition. I agree that it's not too likely he has the body of work needed to qualify for 4CCs this year, though I've no idea what the criteria for selection is this season. (USFSA may be a little more open to letting athletes prove themselves than last year as there is less on the line and the field is more open). For the guys that don't currently have a BOW, though, this is a good event to start building one heading into next season. And a great placement at Nationals would very likely get you an international and a shot at earning new technical minimums, even if such a placement doesn't garner an invite to Anaheim.

    And now, having said all that, Ross Miner could have gone to 4CCs if he had wanted to go. I mean, seriously, they sent Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    Sadly, because I enjoy his skating, I think even if Jordan had the skate of his life at Nats, and took fifth, say, he would not be chosen for 4CC. (regardless of whether he had minimums) I think only skaters on say Jordan's "level" (also sad to say, I think Sean Rabbitt may be among them) would get the "Ross Miner" treatment. ETA: Savary is in this category. No way in heck will he be chosen, even with SOHL.

    Alex Krasnozhon, Tim Dolensky, Jimmy Ma, Alex Johnson with the skates of their life would be selected, IMHO.

    I think any of the [top three] junior men, if they managed a high enough placement, would go. None of them embarrassed themselves on the JGP, despite Camden's unfortunate FS at the JGPF. Tomoki had an unfortunate SP at the JGPF, and I don't think that should disqualify him.

    We live in interesting times
    Do you think so? This year is far less fraught than last season bc: no Olympics. And given the negative response by so many people to what happened to Ross, Iím wondering if USFS would do it again in a much less important season. You may be right though.

    Jimmy is an interesting case. He made a big splash at Nationals - was it two years running? But he didnít place very well. Then he medaled at Philly and in his challenger - and bombed at Skate America. Heís got a lot of personality, but maybe not such great technique. Heís about a year younger than Jason. Is he someone youíd give a chance to at 4CCs? The new scoring system would seem to favor Tim, Alex, and Jordan. Tim and Alex J are both older than Jason, though.

    If I try to imagine who would be a strong team member, I guess I think of Alex K more than the rising juniors. Not bc I love his skating so much, but something about his will - moving to US alone at such a young age - and vivid personality. Not the greatest of reasons, but there it is. And he does have a strong 3A!

  3. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavi... View Post
    Do you think so? This year is far less fraught than last season bc: no Olympics. And given the negative response by so many people to what happened to Ross, Iím wondering if USFS would do it again in a much less important season. You may be right though.

    Jimmy is an interesting case. He made a big splash at Nationals - was it two years running? But he didnít place very well. Then he medaled at Philly and in his challenger - and bombed at Skate America. Heís got a lot of personality, but maybe not such great technique. Heís about a year younger than Jason. Is he someone youíd give a chance to at 4CCs? The new scoring system would seem to favor Tim, Alex, and Jordan. Tim and Alex J are both older than Jason, though.

    If I try to imagine who would be a strong team member, I guess I think of Alex K more than the rising juniors. Not bc I love his skating so much, but something about his will - moving to US alone at such a young age - and vivid personality. Not the greatest of reasons, but there it is. And he does have a strong 3A!
    And most of the fall he was still working his way back from his injury at junior worlds, so I think he will be stronger and improved from his last event.

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    After Nathan, Jason and Vincent, Alex Krasnozhon has the next highest World Ranking.

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    And the sixth highest SB. (6 of 12, half dozen of another)

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    Nationals conference calls have been uploaded by the Lansing Herald. Included are those of Jason, Nathan, and Vincent.
    https://lansingherald.com/sports#f6b...2-d5baac07a64b

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    Nathan is my favorite. I hope he can keep it together along with university work and win nationals. I really like his style, his short program stands out this season. He is so talented in many aspects, but still seems so easy going. Great guy!

    Seems like Jason is back on track. He looks very confident with his perfect short and can score high there. Iím not a fan of his free, but if Jason likes to skate to íthe old mení good for him. As long as he skates well to the music and gets the tech done heíll be fine.

    Vincent says he will take it easy with quads, that he has worked on his performance skills and worked hard to get his jumps fully rotated. Exactly what many fans and not-fans have suggested all season. So lets be happy and wish him good luck with his goals. I like his programs, especially the free. Both are good for working on his performance ability.

    I hope these three will be the medalists. I hope Nathan will be the champion. It doesnít matter to me who is second or third. Just hoping for season best skates. What about Vincent rotating his quads and Jason nailing his first quad at Nationals ...and US can send a strong team to worlds.

    As for the new generation I donít know who I think will be the one(s) for the future. Iím not even sure who I like the best. If I have to name one I would say Tomoki. But thatís for now. All the best to all of them. Surprise me!

    Soft spots for Jimmy Maa and Jordan Moeller. Curious to see how they will do. GO both!

    I know there are others who are great to watch too. I just forget some of them because I mostly see them only at US nationals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Because everyone forgot there are three spots lol. Thanks, Max (and Nathan, ofc).
    Like: íoh, just remembered there was another guy skatingÖ. who won goldí

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflake View Post
    … Like: ’oh, just remembered there was another guy skating…. who won gold’
    Do not agree with your interpretation of what Mrs. P wrote.

    I do not think anyone ever has forgotten for one second that Nathan contributed to the three spots.

    Or could forget. Or wants to forget.

    I would say that your comment seems unnecessarily dismissive of Max's contribution.

  9. #869
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    Nathanís contribution is obviously known, hence the ďof course.Ē But two men are needed to secure three spots and Max was the guy who helped.

    The fact Spain only has two spots in Euros despite Javi winning year after year speaks to the importance of the second man.

    Anyway, my point is we have three spots and the field is less deep so in theory Jason and Vincent should both get on the team. But Nationals can be strange and I reserve room for surprises.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 01-15-2019 at 09:47 AM.

  10. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Nathan’s contribution is obviously known, hence the “of course.” But two men are needed to secure three spots and Max was the guy who helped.

    The fact Spain only has two spots in Euros despite Javi winning year after year speaks to the importance of the second man.

    Anyway, my point is we have three spots and the field is less deep so in theory Jason and Vincent should both get on the team. But Nationals can be strange and I reserve room for surprises.
    Is Camden skating senior this year? I have liked him and Alexei for a couple of years now. Nathan seems to be a lock but, who knows after that.

  11. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Dance View Post
    If you made the JGPF in the men's event, you were more consistent then LOADS of guys.

    Jordan has the minimums for 4CCs from Lombardia last season. He's relatively young, born the same year as Jimmy. Just doesn't have much of a track record for getting the job done in competition. I agree that it's not too likely he has the body of work needed to qualify for 4CCs this year, though I've no idea what the criteria for selection is this season. (USFSA may be a little more open to letting athletes prove themselves than last year as there is less on the line and the field is more open). For the guys that don't currently have a BOW, though, this is a good event to start building one heading into next season. And a great placement at Nationals would very likely get you an international and a shot at earning new technical minimums, even if such a placement doesn't garner an invite to Anaheim.

    And now, having said all that, Ross Miner could have gone to 4CCs if he had wanted to go. I mean, seriously, they sent Grant.
    But didn't Grant place in the top ten at worlds - pretty impressive.

  12. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowflake View Post
    Nathan is my favorite. I hope he can keep it together along with university work and win nationals. I really like his style, his short program stands out this season. He is so talented in many aspects, but still seems so easy going. Great guy!

    Seems like Jason is back on track. He looks very confident with his perfect short and can score high there. I’m not a fan of his free, but if Jason likes to skate to ’the old men’ good for him. As long as he skates well to the music and gets the tech done he’ll be fine.

    Vincent says he will take it easy with quads, that he has worked on his performance skills and worked hard to get his jumps fully rotated. Exactly what many fans and not-fans have suggested all season. So lets be happy and wish him good luck with his goals. I like his programs, especially the free. Both are good for working on his performance ability.

    I hope these three will be the medalists. I hope Nathan will be the champion. It doesn’t matter to me who is second or third. Just hoping for season best skates. What about Vincent rotating his quads and Jason nailing his first quad at Nationals ...and US can send a strong team to worlds.

    As for the new generation I don’t know who I think will be the one(s) for the future. I’m not even sure who I like the best. If I have to name one I would say Tomoki. But that’s for now. All the best to all of them. Surprise me!

    Soft spots for Jimmy Maa and Jordan Moeller. Curious to see how they will do. GO both!

    I know there are others who are great to watch too. I just forget some of them because I mostly see them only at US nationals.




    Like: ’oh, just remembered there was another guy skating…. who won gold’
    Those three seem likely the favorites on paper at least. I mean Nathan is the defending world champion and quad king. Jason the PCS king. Vincent the prince moving up especially in light of Cam and Alex being fairly junior and Jimmy having some challenges. Jason really needs to be the PC king as his quad seems non existent competitively. he will need quads to compete with the Japanese men. Kolyada has been struggling, Javier gone, Jason is the Patrick Chan replacement minus the jumps and not quite as good skating skills but he is probably the best now. I think the US looks good for worlds and holding on to three spots especially with Nathan showing the world he can do it and have it all with school and skating.

  13. #873
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    How is Timothy looking this season? I haven't heard much from him at all.

  14. #874
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    Great new Torgashev article by Lynn Rutherford:




    Quote Originally Posted by mrrice View Post
    Is Camden skating senior this year? …
    Yes, this season Camden has competed in senior internationals (non-GP) and will be a senior at Nats.

    As you probably know, he competed at JGPs and JGPF this season too.

  15. #875
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    Interview with Alex K:
    https://europeonice.com/2019/01/18/a...my-whole-life/

    His goal is a consistent 4S, and eventually more quads:
    For me the loop is kind of like – once I know that my ankle is able to take that jump, I’ll go for it but right now this is the first season after the Olympics so I think that for me to make my career to last longer, I have to restrict myself as far as the quad loop and quad flip goes.
    If I start doing them now, I will make my foot worse and that will hurt me in the long term and, if I start working on Salchow and start make it consistent, I think that will help me in the long term do actual valid quads.”
    Krasnozhon’s planned content for the GP in Helsinki, Finland included one quad Salchow in each programme but before the competition he and his coach made the decision not to do the jump in both programmes and it turned out well for him. Krasnozhon skated two nearly clean programmes and his solid free skate scored 136.98, which is his personal best under the new judging system. In this interview after the official practice on the day before the short programme, Krasnozhon was still deciding his programme for the upcoming competition.
    “Right now, we’re going to decide to see if we’re going to do the quad salchow in the short depending on how my practice goes tomorrow morning. Because with the new (judging) system, it is better to skate clean. But if you don’t rotate quads fully you put all that energy in and you get nothing. It’s risky. You have to be able to do quads perfectly clean. So, I think the biggest deal is to decide tomorrow depending on my condition.”

    He feels the Russian coaching style is more effective for him:
    In April 2018, after four years training with the Cains in the U.S., Krasnozhon made another major coaching change to Russian coaches Olga Ganicheva and Alexei Letov. He is now training at the Dr. Pepper Star Center in Plano, Texas.
    “I think that I learned a lot from Peter and Darlene as far as overall skating goes, but now Russians are really good at teaching jumps. And that’s what I needed, and I decided that since I hurt myself – the biggest injury was from the quad – I felt like I needed help with my jumps, so I wanted to learn from somebody who I think could teach me this. I think that with Peter and Darlene I kind of felt I wasn’t listening to them. To me it was all new when I switched to Alexei. I knew the Russian way and I knew how to do what he was talking about. For me it was easier to do what he says. While with Peter and Darlene, I had a hard time trusting them which was kind of on my side so that’s why I switched because I felt like I couldn’t make myself listen to them.”

    His goal is Beijing 2022, with the more immediate goals of competing at Junior Worlds and 4CC:
    Krasnozhon is now preparing for the U.S. championships in Detroit, Michigan this month and internationally he has set another goal too – a place at the 2022 Olympics in Beijing, China. No one knows how many men’s spots the U.S. Olympic team will have in three years’ time but Krasnozhon believes that he has a chance.
    “I do want to do Junior Worlds and I want to compete at Four Continents as well. I think that, if I get myself right and ready for nationals, I can really be in the top four there.
    “I absolutely want to make an Olympic team. Internationally I have some places to make up. I think that now there are a lot of strong competitors that I’m not ready to compete with yet but it’s good for me to go out there and take on the whole world. You’re going to have some who are better and much stronger than I am.
    “You take the U.S. I don’t think I can compete with Nathan Chen. I cannot compete with Vincent Zhou. Not yet. But I can compete with other guys. Third and fourth places are open for me, so I think that if I make certain things better and start landing quads, that will be the key for me.”

    He has applied for citizenship:
    His application for U.S. citizenship, made in March 2018, is currently being processed.

  16. #876
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    I didn’t know Alex was planning on doing Junior Worlds. It would certainly make the battle for gold that much more exciting! If he places third at Nationals (which I think is possible, though it won't be easy), I wonder if they would send him to Junior or Senior Worlds. It's not like the US doesn’t have plenty of capable junior men to go to the former event.

    Glad he’s taking it (relatively) easy and letting his ankle fully heal before trying other quads.

  17. #877
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    Thanks @Oatmella for the link.

    I always liked my wild jumper Alex K., even though he is not what I am normally attracted to in a skater. There's always one outlier

    So interesting to hear the story why he left the Cains, I think one of the reasons I like Alex is that he is real on the ice and he is real off the ice: I wasn't listening to them, which was on me, and I had to find a coach I would listen to

    I'm not certain about top three, but pewter is a possibility, and since I wager Nathan will not be leaving old Eli for 4CC, maybe we will see Alex there

  18. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Nathan’s contribution is obviously known, hence the “of course.” But two men are needed to secure three spots and Max was the guy who helped.

    The fact Spain only has two spots in Euros despite Javi winning year after year speaks to the importance of the second man.

    Anyway, my point is we have three spots and the field is less deep so in theory Jason and Vincent should both get on the team. But Nationals can be strange and I reserve room for surprises.
    I think this is the correct analysis. But I can't imagine that the whole "body of work" argument could reasonably apply to any man other than Nathan. So, I expect Jason and Vincent to both make it - on the basis of their USNats placements. But, as you say, always room for surprises.

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    Don't know if I am allowed to post since the competition is still going on (I can't keep track of the rules)...

    William Annis, Novice skater, landed a ratified 3A in the short program yesterday

  20. #880
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    You sure about the ratified 3A? The detailed protocols say it was a 2A.

    Fyi. I heard he (and at least one other) has one so we may see it in the long.

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