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Thread: 2018-19 U.S. Menís figure skating

  1. #61
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    Flies and other insects will just accidentally fly into rinks, and then the cold slows them down (sometimes you see them hovering over the ice, barely hanging in there, you can just catch them in your palm) and they can end up on the ice, unable to move... if they're still alive, once you pick them up, they usually bounce back and fly away.

  2. #62
    GS Supporter Tavi...'s Avatar
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    Okay thereís thread drift and thereís thread drift. Fifteen posts about...bugs? In the US menís thread? Enough!

    Címon guys, I beg of you.

    Any news or even speculation about...oh I donít know...how Nathan and Raf plan to deal with the long distance coaching situation in August? Whether Adam will compete next season? Jasonís coaching situation? Alexei Kís ankle? Maxís new job? Vincentís performances at SOI and who his head coach will be next season with Tammyís move to CS? Sean Rabbitt? Tim Dolenski? Grant Hochstein? Who will get GPs? Who will do which Sr Bs? Who needs to improve what?

  3. #63
    陈巍 oatmella's Avatar
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    Nathan said he would like to fly Raf out to Yale if possible before competitions to prepare for 6-10 days. Otherwise he will be his coach long distance and Nathan will check in with him regularly. Nathan will continue training at a rink nearby Yale.

    Adam - I donít know if heís made a formal announcement, but Iím under the impression he will not be competing next season

    Jasonís coaching situation - I think currently unknown (or at least he hasnít said anything publicly)

    Alex K.ís ankle - I think heís recovering and should be ok for next season

    Vincent - I saw his ĎTake on Meí program st SOI San Jose and thought he was great. Really fun program, think the shows are helping him further develop his performance quality, and awesome cantilever!
    Iím not really sure about his coaching situation (head coach) - can both be his head coach?

    Max is working as a wealth advisor at Merrill Lynch in Arizona:
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/...-on-new-career

    I will let someone else answer all those other questions

  4. #64
    in Emergency Backup Mode karne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmella View Post
    Vincent - I saw his ĎTake on Meí program st SOI San Jose and thought he was great. Really fun program, think the shows are helping him further develop his performance quality, and awesome cantilever!
    Vincent's "Take On Me" program was made by Joshua, so no wonder people like it.

    Max has not posted on social media in a few weeks. I suspect that as we move further away from his competitive career, he will slide into a comfortable obscurity. However, he is listed for the Ice Den's show on June 15/16, so we may have more news of him then.

  5. #65
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    How is Camden Pulkinen looking?

  6. #66
    陈巍 oatmella's Avatar
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    Camden went to Latvia to train with Stephane Lambiel and got a program done with him

    And Tom Z posted a video of Camden doing a delayed 2A and said they are working on this for 4A technique:

    https://instagram.com/p/BjBUjZHF8xg/

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmella View Post
    Adam - I donít know if heís made a formal announcement, but Iím under the impression he will not be competing next season
    Adam is done. I don't know if he's made it official, but I did see an interview with him (maybe with Andy Cohen) in which he basically said he isn't able to compete with those a decade younger.

    EDIT: Here, at 5:37... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtqHnoHMQOY

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Adam is done. I don't know if he's made it official, but I did see an interview with him (maybe with Andy Cohen) in which he basically said he isn't able to compete with those a decade younger.
    He talked about it on GMA this morning as well. He said he's done competing because it doesn't pay and he's ready to move on. He said something like....I was America's sweetheart and I was still broke...

  9. #69
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    About Alexei's ankle, here's what I've got from his Instagram:

    March 30th he shared a picture of him rehabbing it and said that he'd be allowed to start jumping in ~3 weeks

    April 12th he was on the ice getting his SP done by Scott Brown and on May 9th his FS by Marina Zoueva and Oleg Epstein.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmella View Post
    Camden went to Latvia to train with Stephane Lambiel and got a program done with him

    And Tom Z posted a video of Camden doing a delayed 2A and said they are working on this for 4A technique:

    https://instagram.com/p/BjBUjZHF8xg/
    aww, thanks for posting Camden's delayed 2A, such a beauty, you know in old-school jumping technique aesthetics the delayed jumps are actually desired.
    it was actually a GOE bullet a couple years back, the delayed jump, delayed 3lutz, delayed 2A like Camden's here. the hanging in air feeling. really beautiful
    but nowadays, people just wanna squeeze in as many revolutions as possible, delayed jump is rare to see.

    And you see that landing flow, that is Camden's 3A landing flow.

  11. #71
    "Oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on..." Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    aww, thanks for posting Camden's delayed 2A, such a beauty, you know in old-school jumping technique aesthetics the delayed jumps are actually desired.
    it was actually a GOE bullet a couple years back, the delayed jump, delayed 3lutz, delayed 2A like Camden's here. the hanging in air feeling. really beautiful
    but nowadays, people just wanna squeeze in as many revolutions as possible, delayed jump is rare to see.

    And you see that landing flow, that is Camden's 3A landing flow.
    Delayed jumps aren't that rare, there are some that have been doing them for years, and still do.

  12. #72
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    @oatmella
    speaking of Camden training with Lambiel.
    I wanna share a video of Lambiel teach Deniss here. learning to fly (I think you may like it)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceN_G5WWNr4

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    Delayed jumps aren't that rare, there are some that have been doing them for years, and still do.
    yes, people can still do delayed jumps, but nowadays, in competitions, score wise, squeeze in as many revolutions as possible is the trend, also the technique trend. Skaters wanted to start rotate as early as possible to achieve as many rev as possible.

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    there are also
    Tomoki Hiwatashi, Andrew Torgashev, any info about them?

  15. #75
    "Oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on..." Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yyyskate View Post
    yes, people can still do delayed jumps, but nowadays, in competitions, score wise, squeeze in as many revolutions as possible is the trend, also the technique trend. Skaters wanted to start rotate as early as possible to achieve as many rev as possible.
    I never said people can still do them, I'm saying Camden isn't the first to do them like this, Ryan Bradley has been doing them (when he competed) and now as a pro for years.

    And you don't need to school me on rotating jumps, been doing that for the last 30 years or so.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    I never said people can still do them, I'm saying Camden isn't the first to do them like this, Ryan Bradley has been doing them (when he competed) and now as a pro for years.

    And you don't need to school me on rotating jumps, been doing that for the last 30 years or so.
    not argue with your authority here, I just thought Camden's delayed 2A is beautiful, that is all.

  17. #77
    GS Supporter Tavi...'s Avatar
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    Ah thank you everyone!

    Okay. Oatmella, Iím interested to hear what you liked about Vincentís performances besides the cantilever - I saw several comments from people who said they really enjoyed him. How would you compare what he did at SOI to what we saw of him last year? Do you think heíll be able to keep it up when heís doing 4-5 quads?

    And regarding Nathan and Raf - how will it work if Nathan flies him out before every competition? What about Rafís other skaters? Thatís quite a long time for him to be away from them. I know itís not unprecedented - it can happen with any competition. But itís not usually for that much time and heís go a bigger group of skaters now. What will Nathan do the rest of the time - Skype lessons? I know we donít have answers to these questions yet, but I am curious.

    I think itís great that Josh is doing choreography and I hope we get to see more of him in that role, soon! I think the last time I heard anything about him it was when he needed the therapy / rehab and there was that go fund me. The fact that heís able to concentrate on creating a program for someone makes me really hopeful that heís doing well.

    I saw Max at an ice show last month and he looked really happy and skated great!

    Itís very cool Camden Pulkinen went to Lambiel! He seems to have a really strong idea of where he wants to go and it will be interesting to watch him develop. But 4A? Does he have all the other quads yet? I guess I wonder why they would focus on that.

    Adam I suspected would not return with all thatís happening but it occurred to me that maybe I was just assuming heís moving on. I hadnít heard the comments you guys mentioned but it totally makes sense. Iím very curious to see what happens next.

    And Jason. A sprained ankle and no news on the coaching front worry me a bit. Heís made it clear he wants to continue and has posted a few things about this being the end of one chapter and the start of a new one. Is he just talking about the end of the Olympic cycle and the beginning of the next one? Is he really going to work with a new coach, and if so, who? Will he be able to stay relevant and will he ever get that quad? Sigh.

    How do you all see the guys stacking up next year? Is it clearly Nathan-Vincent at the top despite what happened to Vincent at Worlds? Where does everyone else rank?

    Itís funny, itís really still only the start of the off season but it feels like forever to me!

  18. #78
    GS Supporter SnowWhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavi... View Post
    How do you all see the guys stacking up next year? Is it clearly Nathan-Vincent at the top despite what happened to Vincent at Worlds? Where does everyone else rank?
    I guess it depends a bit on who's retiring. Right now I think it's Nathan 1 and Vincent 2, but that could change. For Nathan, it really depends on how he deals with his new training situation and college. Unless that goes really wrong, I think it's more likely to affect his international standing than his US standing, but good progress from Vincent could catch him. For Vincent, I think he's okay at number 2 - I don't put too too much into Worlds knowing that he was injured at the time. He's not untouchable at 2, but he has more room for error than the men behind him.

    I think Jason is the number 3 right now, but there is a bit of uncertainty since we don't really know what's happening with his training situation. After Jason, I'd have Alexei Krasnozhon. Ross Miner or Grant could be in there if they stick around. Alexei struggled at Nationals (I think he like many of the skaters was sick?) but he had the highest SB behind Nathan, Vincent, Adam, Jason and Max. And he's young and progressing, and seems to have a good head for competition - he never really seems to give up on a program. Plus, I'm interested to see a Marina program on him.

    So right now, assuming Ross and Grant retire, I have it as: 1-Nathan, 2-Vincent, 3-Jason, 4-Alexei. With guys like Alex Johnson and Tim Dolensky in the next group. If one or both of Ross and Grant stick around, I think they'd be competitive with Alexei, though if I had to bet I'd have him coming out on top.

  19. #79
    陈巍 oatmella's Avatar
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    Tavi - I really liked Vincentís program - super fun music choice, choreography (thank you Joshua Ferris!), and Vincent was really engaged with the audience and there were really cute moments like he did a dab, and the split at the end. Itís hard for me to compare this show program to what he did last season - so different and no quads. But I am sure he can bring what heís learned in terms of performance from SOI and also the show he did in Korea - to his programs next season.

    There are a some unknowns about how Nathan is going to make the long distance coaching thing work. Raf could possibly bring some of his skaters with him when he travels to coach Nathan. It sounds like they will be having something like skype coaching sessions. It will be a change for sure and I donít know if they have figured out everything yet .

    I still see Nathan-Vincent at the top - and my guess for #3 is Alex K.

  20. #80
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    Here's the field as I see it, though i put the caveat that I am not sure the official status of these skaters.

    The likely 2019 U.S. Nationals Podium (remember it's 1-4 here)

    1.) Nathan Chen. Honestly, the question isn't whether he can stay US No. 1 -- it's whether he maintain World No. 1. I think he's far and above U.S. No. 1 and even if he isn't a full blast, I don't see him letting go of top dog status with USFS. The World competition is highly reduced -- his biggest competition will be Yuzuru and Shoma, with Mikhail and Boyang as the dark horses. He's beaten pretty much everyone at this point.

    I actually thing places 2-4 is a bit more fluid then some people think.

    2.) Vincent Zhou. I do think Vincent is in the best contention for U.S. No. 2. He finished in the top six at the Olympics against a deep field. He obviously has a lot of quads, but he does underrotate them, as we've seen in various competitions this year. His PCS scores remain relatively low compared to the top men, though I think his efforts to improve with his performance/artistry/basis will likely pay off with a boost in his PCS scores (even if they don't get to the top echelon). For me, Vincent is very focused, but at times, he can almost want it too much and sometimes it does backfire on him. In a sense, he's been most successful when people didn't expect a lot from him or when he's coming off a so-so/poor part of the season. The question is whether he can show he's a top contender on a consistent basis. That remains to be seen, which is why I wouldn't put him as a LOCK for No. 2.

    3.) Jason Brown. There are all sorts of questions regarding Jason. I do think Jason had a crisis of confidence this season that lead to him not making the Olympic team and finishing a dismal sixth place, his lowest placement in five years. He's also dealt with major/minor injuries in the last few years (including now with his recent ankle injury) which I believe impacted any momentum as far as mastering quads and maintaining consistency on his triple axel. And yeah, who's going to coach him?
    All that said, I think if the stars align, Jason could sneak back into that No. 2 position. The judges continue to score him well and the scoring changes may work in his favor. I also think one thing people are likely underestimating is his ability to improve elsewhere while he's working on jumps. His basic skating skills have improved over the last four years and I think that work will continue to pay off.

    4.) Alexei Krasnozhon. I think he too can easily be USA No. 2. He started out very strongly last season, winning JGPF. He had a so-so nationals (due to being sick during the free skate) and then suffered injury during his FS at Junior Worlds, forcing him to drop out. However, this kid had the best and consistent 3A among all the U.S. men and I think he's close on getting a good quad. He does need to work more on the non-jump items, especially spins, and basically I think he's going to need to out TES the field to move up. However, his growing confidence has been fun to watch and he's hungry to improve, just like Vincent.

    The dark horses
    5.) Ross Miner. I'm not sure if he's going to officially continue. Yes, it's feels odd putting him as a dark horse since he skated so well at his last competition. But the lack of data points make it tough to know whether his Nationals performances were a complete fluke among a seas of lackluster performances. Ross does have amazing SS -- the best in the field, arguably -- and he has landed a few quads internationally. It's not out of the question for him to defend his silver medal next year. But it's also not out of the question for him to end up much lower.

    6.) Grant Hochstein (if he continues). He's not officially retired (though he and others have made comments hinting he has/will retire). However since we don't know for sure, I'd like to include him. He had a surprisingly great SP at nationals, but then so-so performances after that. However, he's been on the podium before and I think he can sneak in if the top 4 above do poorly.

    7.) Tim Dolensky. Tim has some beautiful skating and great spins. He's been inconsistent on the jumps, which is why he continues to finish 7th in the last three years. However, I think he can continue to improve and could find himself up a few spots.

    8.) Alexander Johnson. There's so much to love about Alex's skating. He is an engaging performer and he tends to pick interesting programs. He's finished as high as 6th. It's hard to say whether he has the time (he is studying full time) to master the quads or even get the 3A consistent enough for him to move up the ranks after a few years in the 6th to 8th range.

    9.) Camden Pulkinen. He is the JGPF silver medalist and helped the U.S men retain 3 spots at Jr. Worlds after Alexei was forced to W/D. He also has a great 3A and a great performance/skating quality, but we'll see whether he can integrate a quad during this upcoming season. I can see him sneaking in the top 5 or 6 quite easily.

    Who can break into the top 10?
    10.) Andrew Torgashev. Andrew moved to Colorado Springs full-time to be coached by Christy Krall after a tough season. Krall has been known to get her students up to shape with jumps (she played a big role in getting Patrick Chan to master his quad toe, for instance). Andrew already has high-quality skating and is an engaging performer.

    11.) Tomoki Hiwatashi. Tomoki continues to go up-and-down. He can struggle at one moment and then dazzle in the next, as we saw at U.S. Nationals alone. His struggles in the SP left him in 15th but then he did a dazzling 7th FS to move up to 12th, an improvement from his 2017 placement. And let's not forget that he's a past junior world medalist.

    12.) Jimmy Ma. The viral sensation! But Jimmy has improved greatly since moving to the Cains in the Texas last season. He finished just outside the top 10, in 11th, beating both Andrew and Tomoki. I'd like to see him get some consistency in the summer, get in the ISP and build some credibility internationally.

    13.) Jordan Moeller. He was 10th in 2017 but then dropped to 15th after a dismal SP that left him 20th (though he moved up a few places after a solid effort in the FS). Jordan's had some major ups-and-downs and isn't the most consistent. However he has been showing some progress on a 4S and he has always been a very engaging performer, so I'm hoping he can sneak his way up to the top 10.

    14.) Sean Rabbit. Sean's also been in the top 10. But given his lack of consistency on the 3A (he only landed it, IIRC, a handful of times), he'll likely need some help from others.

    15.) Emmanuel Savary. He recently switched coaches and is now being coached with Tom Z. He show some promise in the past but has struggled with consistency. It will be interesting to see whether this new coaching home will help him. He is a great performer -- I loved his SP at U.S. nationals this year.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 05-23-2018 at 12:52 PM.

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