ISU Makes Threat To Member Nations Re. Skaters That Pulled Out of GP

I think that although it should ultimately be the skater's choice whether or not to compete in the GP, the ISU has a right to be worried about their revenue.

I believe that when a skater agrees to be in a GP event, that agreement becomes like an "unwritten contract" (i.e. sponsors, attendees, etc. count on the skaters being there) in which the only legit way to get out of it would be to have an injury that either hinders or prevents them from skating. Now here's the thing: it's OK to pull out of an event if you are hurt, BUT you shouldn't be skating in other events either! That, to me, just proves you don't want to go, which is not OK IMO. Why sign up for it in the first place then? I think the ISU has a good point here.

The problem here is skaters pulling out of the GP and skating in other events, which to me is wrong. The only time skaters should pull out IMO is when they are a) hurt enough not to skate or b) have an emergency (ie. IS pulling out to care for her mom). Otherwise, don't sign up for it if you don't want to do it.

How can the ISU fix this problem? I'm not so sure threats are the answer here. I like the idea of putting the skaters on an actual contract if they are willing to participate. That would make them bound to appear in the event unless they have a valid reason of pulling out, and if they skip or pull out at their will, the ISU would be free to enact whatever punishment necessary for breach of contract. If they feel the GPs are that important, they could make participation necessary to compete at Worlds or Olympics. Also, to solve the jet lag/travel issue- I like the idea of NA skaters being restricted to Skate America or Skate Canada, Europeans to COR and TEB, and Asians to NHK and COC. The only time travelling should be necessary is for the GP Final, wherever that would be. I also think tying in the Four Continents and European championships in this somehow would work too (although I'm not sure how). If a skater can no longer handle this type of schedule, then IMO it's time to retire.

Just my thoughts here.

The one issue that has bothered me is that people are saying that the seeded skaters like Michelle had claimed that she needed a break to prepare for Nationals and Worlds. Who doesn't need time to prepare? All skaters need to prepare for their nationals (or europeans) and such and yet, we are not hearing many complaints from them saying they need a break.

I do think that 3 GP's is too much for the seeded skaters, so why not give 2 events to the seeded skaters (since only 2 out of 3 are counted for scoring) and then the final? This way, all skaters have adequate time to prepare for their National championships. I still think that 4CC should be used as a Worlds qualifier and help eliminate the Q-round at Worlds.

Lise

LBC said:

You're forgetting about touring. While the tours are much shorter now than in the past the last olympic tour lasted till August. Now it is more like June but still 2 months less time. September way too early. I like the concept of spreading them out more but you've only got so much time. Nationals start in Dec. and Jan. for countries. You've got that big gap before Worlds to work with though. Would it be better to schedule competitions in that time period as well? Make them regional? North American skaters do SA and SC, Europeans France and Russia, Asians NHK and China? Forget the whole GP concept and just have them be individual competitions that skaters can decide which ones they want to do?

Click to expand...

I guess the tours bring in the big bucks. Can't blame them for not bypassing the tours. at the age beginning may be somewhere between 5-8, these skaters were getting up at 4am to travel to cold rink to learn their craft. that took a lot out of them. Only the top tier skaters got something out of that (medals). the tours give them some money that their parents had invested in them. why not?

I do like your concept and I think the winners of each GP would go to the GP Finals somewhere between the Nats and Worlds. Might work.

Joe

Doggygirl said:

Why are anyone's work related commitments (time / work in exchange for agreed upon pay) any different than a skater's or anyone else's for the purposes of a discussion about contracts and agreements? Are contracts only relevant if they pertain to athletes with a scale of pay in the millions? (If so, I'm calling in sick everyday I feel like it from here forward, and will expect my employer to like it or lump it.)

DG

Click to expand...

Because you persist in thinking that the contracts and agreements are between the skaters and the ISU. Or you lump the federations with the skaters themselves. There are no individual contracts between the ISU or any skater related to payment in exchange for services. That's why one work related commitments in exchange for a salary is not relavent. Whether one gets paid $5 an hour vs. $5 million is irrelevant in a skater's case.

DG - your employer pays you X amount to perform the duties as a (insert position). Presumably your employer provides you with the tools you need to do your job (computer, pens, paper, etc - I'm picking an office job in this example). Failure to perform your duties could mean you don't get paid or risk getting fired. Pretty cut and dried.

Quote me the part in the ISU charter that shows where skaters are getting a set salary to participate in GP events. Show me the part of the ISU charter where the ISU provides these skaters with skates, skate guards, costumes - the bare necessities to perform in a competition. (Forget coaching. That would be like your employer paying you for education to do your job better. Many employers don't offer that, so I'll set aside coaching fees). Show me the part of the ISU charter that reimburses the skaters for their work-related travel expenses to appear at the competitions.

That's why the comparison doesn't work.

Speedy's issue is with the member federations, not the skaters themselves. That's why he has to be careful in his statements not to name specific names.

Until the individual member federations put their seeded skaters under contract with a financial arrangement that spells out their competitive requirements, as long as skaters have the right to turn down an invitational - and let's not forget that the GP series are invitationals, the problem won't be easily solved.

As for saying skaters all need time to prepare for Worlds and Nationals, so why should some opt not to skate at GP while others do? That's called choices. That wonderful freedom a person get to make the decision to skate or not. Skating in the GP is a privilege that many skaters want to participate in, particulary up and coming skaters. They WANT and CHOOSE to participate knowing that they need time to prepare for Nationals. Skating in the GP series is a "take it or leave it" proposition to other skaters who don't feel it will enhance them one way or another and CHOOSE to not participate. One could argue that participating in the GP series is a huge help in preparing for Nationals and Worlds. Others could say it's a nuisance that risks injury, costs money, and doesn't make a difference either way. No position is more correct than another.

It comes down to choices. The USFSA and other federations CHOOSE not to fine skaters or force them to make decisions about skating in GP events in June, rather than in September. That may change in the future.

Frankly this all is evidence to me that the sport as a whole is in decline. Viewership is down, injuries are on the rise, more and more skaters are opting out of events and the ISU is losing money. It doesn't help that we have this power mad $peedy running the show. We've seen an awful lot of heavy-handedness from a man who doesn't even have a background in the sport.

For an organization that seems to care only about raping figure skating to support speed skating, the ISU sure has a funny way of showing it. As soon as the ISU signed the big television contracts, the first thing it did was award prize money for the junior and senior events to help skaters defray the costs of training. When the ISU lost its lucrative television contract, it made the decision to reduce prize money across the board so as not to reduce the number of GP events. Presumably it made that decision so that more skaters would have the opportunity to compete in GP events. What a selfish organization :sheesh: !

I just don't see how the ISU is being so selfish. The best step for it to have taken was to stop awarding money for junior events and reduce the number of senior events, however that would not have been in the best interest of the skaters.

I agree with Ogre Mage. Everything occurring this season gives the distinct impression that FS is in serious decline with the masses. The networks aren't showing anything from the GP series (aside from SA) and ESPN is only showing the LPs. Nats are on ABC but even Worlds are only on cable. More skaters have dropped out of GP committments than in any year I've ever seen, and there's very little buzz outside of boards like this one and fans such as ourselves. The casual fan has no reason to become more of a hard core fan if the internet is the only real way to follow the sport. It appears that wholesale changes are necessary for the GP series (clearly the top skaters couldn't care less about competing) but the sport is going to be even less mainstream soon if nothing is done to bring in more fans. FS cannot really survive if pp only get excited for the Olympics. We'll be like other winter sports such as skiing, speed skating, bobsledding, etc.

lise said:

I do think that 3 GP's is too much for the seeded skaters, so why not give 2 events to the seeded skaters (since only 2 out of 3 are counted for scoring) and then the final? This way, all skaters have adequate time to prepare for their National championships.

Click to expand...

That's exactly how it is today - seeded skaters are assigned two events (both scoring). Seeded skaters then have the option of electing a 3rd event, which is non-scoring. So those that are participating in three events are doing it by choice.

What bothers me about this whole thing is that first.. GP is NOT a prerequisite to Worlds, Euro's or Olympics. It's an invitational event.. PERIOD. Heck you have the option to decline at the beginning of the season if you choose to do so.

Why is there a blanket threat naming no skaters and naming no specific penalty broadcasted all over the globe if this was something internal between the ISU and the member federations that are hosting each event (USA, Canada, China, France, Russia and Japan). This kind of stuff reallllly gets me angry. This is the MIDDLE Of the GP season - not everyone is even invited to these things and now I hear of skaters coming out of injury rest to compete in events just so they won't lose their chance at Worlds this year. I mean really! This reaaaaaallly gets me angry. This has nothing more than the ISU getting really upset that they are losing money over a few seeded skaters that either pulled out of events before the season started or had to withdraw halfway through teh GP season. This is not new - this has happened as far back as teh GP circuit was called Champions Series. The only rule that I agree with is the one that states if you qualified for the GPF - outside of you dying you better show up. This is not at all what's going on. Outside of Sasha Cohen's sudden withdrawal each organizing committee has had a chance to replace the ones that pulled out.

My biggest point is teh threat of losing Worlds, Olympics and Euros/4CC. They have NO right whatsoever to institute that rule to such a small amount of skaters (not everyone is seeded and not everyone is even eligible to compete in GP) so the idea that MIDWAY through the GP season such a threat that has not even been approved by the member nations in Congress can be brought up is just another reason why I get so upset with teh ISU. IF there has to be a rule for teh GP circuit don't do it in the middle of the season - wait until Congress and bring it up.

$peedy's Threat

The only thing good about this threat is that it might keep $peedy from trying another plan to increase viewership, like framing Sasha for taking a crowbar to Kwan's kneecaps. Other than that, I think the debate over whether the GP should be mandatory should be kept separate from whether it is proper to impose sanctions on skaters who opted out this year -- because, until this threat, it had been OK to do so.

Jaana said:

Well, I also understand that Plushenko had no problem in going to Japan to appear in PIW shows in October...

Marjaana

Click to expand...

Depending from what part of Russia to what part of Japan, it may not be a long trip.

Tereza said:

I am afraid this would hurt Michelle at the Nationals (scoring wise) since she wasn't out there representing them, and drawing more attendess to the events, which would bring in more money.

Click to expand...

Yes, they may decide to punish her, instead of judging her on skating merits, that is not the first time that a federation has done that. Another judging scandal in the making??

redog said:

I believe that when a skater agrees to be in a GP event, that agreement becomes like an "unwritten contract

Click to expand...

, so there is a difference between accepting then pull out, e.g. Arakawa, and declining the invitation,e.g. Michelle did not "pulled out" she did not accept an invitation, and she did it in time for usfs to find another skater. Now if usfs jumped the gun to assume Michelle will accept the invitation, it is their problem

Arsenett] What bothers me about this whole thing is that first.. GP is NOT a prerequisite to Worlds

Click to expand...

Actually they shouldn't try to base the world rankings on GP either, but even if they

What can ISU do about it, more threats? This is not a problem in skating, it happens in all individual sports. Venus and Serena pull out of competitions a lot too.

arsenette said:

What bothers me about this whole thing is that first.. GP is NOT a prerequisite to Worlds

Click to expand...

I don't think world ranking should be based on GP either

gezando said:

Depending from what part of Russia to what part of Japan, it may not be a long trip.

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure he was traveling from St. Petersburg, which would certainly make it a very long trip...

Jaana said:

Well, I also understand that Plushenko had no problem in going to Japan to appear in PIW shows in October...
Marjaana

Click to expand...

gezando said:

Depending from what part of Russia to what part of Japan, it may not be a long trip.

Click to expand...

In November the trip to NHK competition in Japan was not farther from St. Petersburg than it was in October to skate in shows in Japan, LOL.

Marjaana

Makes me wonder, what ever happened to the good old days when the skating world focused mainly on competing in a countries' National championships, the North American championships, the Worlds and the Olympics.

"Too many cooks spoil the soup. "

I agree Ladskater--the only thing a skater had to do "in the good old days" to qualify for Worlds or the Olys was to win their National Championships. And frankly, imo, that's the way it should be. That system has worked for a good many years. Figure skating has survived many trials & tribulations and it will survive Speedy and the ISU.

Would these rules impact Sarah Hughes if she wanted to return to competitive skating?

I assume the intent of GP series was to generate more revenue, rather than depend only on the nationals, worlds and Olympics. Speedy probably got greedy and wanted more and more from the GP series. Now he seems to have lost his head and he wants to kill the goose that gave him the golden eggs.

Vash

Vash01 said:

I assume the intent of GP series was to generate more revenue, rather than depend only on the nationals, worlds and Olympics.

Click to expand...

FWIW, revenues from various national championships go to the national federation involved, and revenues from the Olympics go to the IOC. The ISU doesn't get a cut from those events.

Originally the Grand Prix competitions existed by themselves for many years in the US, Canada, Germany, France, and Japan. In 1995, those five countries got together on their own with the idea of forming their events into a series. Then the ISU butted in and proclaimed that it owned the international TV rights to those events. So while the series wasn't formed with the intent of generating more revenue for the ISU, the ISU immediately came in and grabbed it for that reason.

Yes, SA, SC, and the GP's in Germany (until last year), France, and I think Japan had existed for many years. I think Russia got in later (and now China replacing Germany) and we did not hear any complaints. It was only after the GP series was created and the GPF format was changed to 3 programs instead of 2, it became a bit stressful. Doing the series year after year would be hard for skaters, or at least some of them. If the ISU wanted a piece of the pie, that is understandable, but the ISU controlling the skaters' eligibility based on GP participation is plain ridiculous, and it is likely to hurt the sport in the long run.

Vash