Opinion about the Pacer / Piston mess

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3181934?GT1=5713

Commissioner Stern suspended 9 players for 140 games total. What do you think about the decision, and overall the NBA players behavior? Is player suspensions just a bandaid on this problem? Are coaches, media, owners, and fans also responsible?

We've been following this mess for a couple of days. My hubby and sons are big NBA fans and agree that there should be suspensions and fines. I think maybe the league went into over-kill on suspending one player for a year. He makes 5 million! I think he should pay a fine and maybe go into anger management, be criminally cited, and do community service. I also think some of the "fans" should be cited as well for their part in the brawl.........I also think alchohol should be banned from ALL sporting events! 42

seeing as how younger kids watch and look up to these goons I think the suspension was too lenient... the guy who got suspended for a year has a reputation for being a jerk so it was only a matter of time... I don't agree with the fans that threw soda and booze on them sueing and wanting $$ they helped fuel the stupid thing...

People get pissed off and want the parents during a game who lose their tempers and get in fights to see jail time WHY don't we want to see the same for the "super stars" (more like the super stupid)

As you can imagine, here in Detroit this has been played up quite a bit in the papers and on TV. Here are my thoughts:

1. Ron Artest is a head case. This is just the latest in a long string of such outbreaks. He's the new Dennis Rodman. The Pacers have been trying to get rid of him for months, but there are no takers.

But then, too, we (the Pistons) can't talk because we have a couple of thug-reclamation projects going on, too -- Rasheed Wallace and Derrick Coleman. Wallace at least is conducting himself with maturity as a Piston so far.

2. The media, especially the ESPN talking heads, need to get out more. They are calling this the worst brawl ever in the history of sports. Please. Nobody died (unlike Boston, celebrating the World Series last month).

In todays paper is a report about five people who shot each other to death in Wisconsin in a dispute over a deer blind in the sport of game hunting.

We won't even mention the soccer matches where dozens of fans are trampled to death.

3. Everyone is saying, boy this sure hurts the image of Detroit. Detroit? The altercation happened thrity miles away, the Piston's organization and arena is in Auburn Hills, the players live in Bloomfield Hills, the fans come almost exclusively from the affluent white suburbs.

But somehow in the mind of the national news media this gives Detroit a black eye.

We are still getting blamed for the time when the Tigers won the World Series in 1984 and some rowdy fans came downtown from Sterling Heights and overturned a police car.

4. IMO the NBA and the team owners are being hypocritical when they promote and sell as much beer as they possibly can, at $5 a cup, and then pretend to be shocked when fans act like obnoxious drunks.

Also, they are asking for trouble by selling courtside seating on folding chairs right on the court (for $1000 a piece during the playoffs). The video, shown over and over, features a folding chair sailing into the picture "from the stands." There are no folding chairs in the stands, only on the playing surface. People blame Palace security for not keeping the fans off the court. But, if you're a high roller, you're already on the court.

5. I don't know how the legal implications will play out. But in today's newspaper coverage, both the person that Artest (mistakenly) attacked in the stands and the person who was sucker-punched by Jermain O'neal, answered "On the advice of my attorney, I can't comment." LOL.

6. This is what figure skating needs. I am going to throw some beer at Michelle when the Marshalls competition comes to the same arena next week. Maybe I can provoke her to charge into the stands and punch out a few people. Make everyone forget Nancy and Tonya!

JMO.

Mathman

What a mess! I wonder how all the dust will settle,...

I wasn't sure which to vote on--I was between player suspension/fines and removing alcohol from sporting events. The fans that threw the beer/soda at the players are only slightly less guilty than the players. Just because you have bought a ticket doesn't give you the right to toss things at the players. That said, the players MUST know that going into the stands is one big NO-NO! Egos and alcohol don't go very well together.

It was very difficult to see these HUGE b-ball players swinging punches at the fans. It was also very disgusting to see so many fans continuing to pour soda/beer on Artest as he was being led through the tunnel. How many stadium police are normally working a game? Could this whole mess have been prevented?

I understand that the Commish had to come down very very hard, and I do agree with the suspensions. It is doubtful the NBA or any other sporting venue will discontinue selling alcohol, IMO they should but that would probably cut into their profit margin and we can't have anything like that right??!

It's always boils down to money--common sense goes by the wayside if there is money to be made. There are athletes who have done their share of wrong (Mike Tyson comes to mind) but because money talks they have been able to compete again. You can be a hot head, a gradeAA jerk, but if you have talent and can fill the seats you will be sought after.

eliza88

Mathman said:

6. This is what figure skating needs. I am going to throw some beer at Michelle when the Marshalls competition comes to the same arena next week. Maybe I can provoke her to charge into the stands and punch out a few people. Make everyone forget Nancy and Tonya!

JMO.

Mathman

Click to expand...

If a nut case in a tutu didn't fluster the Kween, somehow, I don't picture you tossing beer will. Somehow, I don't picture you tossing beer at anyone either

I'd pay money to see Michelle get into a fight with MM... it'd be the only time I'd pay to see Michelle do anything

I agree with the suspensions, and the fans who threw beverages should be charged. It's a form of assault. I don't understand people sometimes. I agree with Mathman that there have been much worse occurrences than this.

Im not so shocked that this happend... so many pro atheletes are trash it seems. I dont think getting rid of beer at sporting events is the answer. If you dont sell it in the arena, people will just get lit in the parking lot and show up way drunker than they might have been anyway (this is definately the case at UT football games). I'm glad they suspended the players, I'm not sure what other course of action the leauge has.

In tonight's news, they identified the fan who threw the beer. He had been in trouble about drinking infractions before and was under a court injunction to stay away from alcohol.

In fact, the county prosecutor reviewed the film and said, Hey, I know that guy -- he's my neighbor!

Mathman

I heard about the whole fiasco but didn't actually get to see the video until today. Boy was I shocked. Or rather shock mixed with cynicism and exasperation. This is one of the reasons why I've stopped watching the NBA. The behavior of some of the players is nothing new but it just seems to be getting worse and worse. Of course anyone would get pissed if someone threw a drink at them but Artest should have been man enough to not go after the fan who did that. Geez, did you see how fast he went up the benches after him? Instead, all h** broke loose when he did. Why was he man enough to try to get out of a fight with Wallace (which he started with a rough foul since rough and flagrant fouls are nothing new on Artest's record) but he wasn't man enough to disregard the fan who threw the drink at him? But then I don't expect that from Artest given his history. One other thing, the news said that the fan that Artest punched might not have been the one who threw the drink at him. Now if I was that fan, I'd definitely sue Artest if he mistakenly punched the wrong guy. Hmm? And what was up with Jackson getting into the fight and punching another fan?

By the way, the news also showed another fan who threw a chair. What the heck???

As if a fight at a sporting event could give Detroit a bad name. I know, it became the Renaissance City and all that. But for most of the country, IMO Detroit is still the city it was in the '60s and '70s -- a real riot.

Certainly everyone I know got the joke on "South Park" where Satan kept trying to get rid of his abusive boyfriend, Saddam Hussein, and Hussein kept coming back every time Satan killed him saying, "Where was I gonna go? Detroit?"

As for the point in question: Big overreaction. Like Mathman said, in other countries they use soccer matches to thin out the population.

One thing I do agree with: Stop selling alcohol at sporting events and don't let people bring in their own drinks. They've been doing this at rock concerts for over a decade and it at least helps. Nothing's going to stop people from getting smashed before going to a game except a breathalizer test in order to get into the arena, but I do think alcohol is the number one contributor to problems like this at sporting events.

I have nothing against wanting to watch your favorite sport or team while your drunk. I just say do it at home or a friends house, watching it on TV, where a wife or girlfriend is around to clean up the puke .
Rgirl

I chose quit selling alcohol, but I think it should be that combined with suspending players. I definitely think the amount of drinking that people do at sporting events contributes to the altercations with players, but players do need to remember that they are role models for kids and that the fans coming to the games help to pay their salaries. If the fans don't come to the games, then the teams don't make the necessary money to pay the salaries.

Unfortunately, there are too many who don't take their being role models seriously. I know the players usually don't set out to be role models, but they are. I still remember Cal Ripken getting into an argument with an umpire during a televised game and then apologizing to the umpire on television during the next televised game that this umpire was refereeing. I thought that was very classy. He realized that he had set a bad example for the kids watching the game and set it as right as he could by apologizing to the umpire on television. Unfortunately, there aren't enough athletes who will try to do that now. I am sure there are some, but we just don't hear enough about them.

I am surprised to find that no one voted for teaching the players about sportsmanship at a young age.

Whoever threw the cup should have been identified (an easy task now through the wonders of cameras) and charged with assalt, disorderly conduct, and reckless endagerment (yes, mom was right, there ARE things that can put an eye out. Then they should be sentenced to 1000 hours of REAL community service where the first thing they say to their student audience is " I am example A of bad fan behavior and this is why you shouldn't follow my actions..."

The basketball player should have stood up and looked directly at the section and said whatever spew of venom that comes from being "winged" with a flying cup from the stands. He has ever right to be infuriated and angry over a true assalt. However, the moment he leaves the floor, he has breached his players contract and should have to pay any price the league demands, AND he should have to go do 1000 hours of REAL communtiy service where the first thing they say to their student audience is " I am example A of bad behavior from atheletes and this is why you shouldn't follow my actions..." Oh yeah, and both should have to shake hands publicly at half court at a game and admit on TV that they are sorry and they will never do it again...JUST LIKE CIVIL PEOPLE SHOULD BEHAVE.

My view on the problem is that our society as a whole is not taught impulse control. I think so many bad things happen, both in the sporting world at all levels, and in life, because people "act, then think." When I was a Sophomore in high school I played on the tennis team where I had a coach who's basic philosophy was "do it with dignity, or don't do it at all" I have seen her take a star athelete out of a close game when they were on a roll to demonstrate that if you can't be in control of your emotions on the field, you just cant play.

I remember that I lost my spot to play at regionals and state competitions because I lost my temper to an opponant that was baiting me. I slammed down my racquet. In a rare move of restraint on her part, Coach M let me finish the match. Afterward, she told me that while she was proud that I stuck it out and won, she was sorry but she could not allow my selfish outburst to ruin the attitude of the team. I was then suspended for the rest of the season and required to "try out " for the next season, even though I was considered a "continuting varsity athelete". All this to say, when there are consequences when you are young for what you do, you tend to remember and carry those experiences with you toward adulthood, and not just on the "playing field"

If only we had more teachers, parents, and coaches that were more concerned with developing the character of the individuals they are responsible for, instead of "win at any price." Thanks Coach M, wherever you may be for helping an impulsive kid learn to handle things better.

Oh, just an interesting fact, according to CNN, at least 70% of all children quit competing in sports or similar competitve activities by the age of 13 because, according to them, "it's just not any fun anymore." Smart kids!

Well I'm not surprised that the whole fiasco happened in Detroit, I mean METRO Detroit. Don't mean to hurt your feelings Mathman and please don't take it personally but I lived in METRO Detroit for several years and in my opinion METRO Detroit as a whole and by that I mean Oakland and Wayne counties; METRO Detroit is the absolute unfriendliest place I have ever lived. There is a reason that Detroit was dubbed 'the murder capital of the world' at one time. The feeling spills out from the inner city to Oakland County wealth havens as well. The people in Bloomfield Hills were just as uptight in my opinion as those people down in Highland Park. My whole experience there was that it is one place I don't ever care to live again, Metro Detroit is just a very nasty place that's the bottom line. I remember one time coming into Detroit from Windsor and going through customs at the Canadian border. The guy in the customs booth was so nasty I was actually embarassed that he represented the US. I was with a friend from Russia who was just amazed by his attitude. So back to the original topic; I'm not surprised that fans would behave this way even in Auburn Hills.

Sk8m8...

Your point about athletes learning this behavior at a young age is right on point. The coach you had is IMO part of a rather small minority. I'm sure every NBA player (and every NFL player, etc) were "superstars" in their sports from very early ages. It's a shame to see the "stars" propped up so they can stay in the games from early ages, regardless of meeting requirements for grades, proper behavior, etc.

Since history can't be changed for the players currently at the top, then severe punishment that really HURTS (i.e. full year suspensions) are appropriate, as would be any applicable criminal charges and resulting punishments there. I really think if the punishments are severe enough to inflict enough, that would be a deterrent for at least some % of these jerks.

Same goes for the fans who engage. They should all be punished under the law as well.

It's a shame to think that the minority of idiot fans who drink too much and get out of control ruin things for the majority who like to enjoy a couple beers at a sporting event, and know our limits and are responsible.

DG