Advanced blades for returning adult skater

tstop4me said:

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OK, I fall into your target population of respondents. Im adult enough to qualify for a senior discount at rinks that offer one. Im overbladed, because I wear the Paramount Freestyle 12 ("comparable to Wilson Gold Seal") in 440C stainless steel, and dont even jump anymore (most I ever did were half jumps); I'm definitely achieving a nicer experience on the ice with them.

I can appreciate your desire for an 8 main rocker. I previously skated on the Wilson Coronation Ace (7 main rocker) for mucho years, and then switched to the Eclipse Aurora (also 7 main rocker) for about a year. The Aurora is Eclipses nominally comparable version of the Coronation Ace. The big plus is that its fabricated from 440C stainless steel and has substantially longer edge life than the Coronation Ace. The big neg is that its spin rocker is substantially flatter than that of the Coronation Ace ... and spins are what Im concentrating on. My coach really loves the spin rocker on the Wilson Gold Seal (8 main rocker). She told me I had enough control to handle it, and strongly urged me to buy it. I would have, except I was hooked on high-grade stainless steel, so I bought the Paramount version (which faithfully reproduces the spin rocker and other main features, though not all features, of the Gold Seal). My other alternatives were the Ultima and the Eclipse stainless-steel versions, but those have substantially flatter spin rockers.

With the Paramounts, the easier glide and greater stability were immediately apparent the moment I stepped on the ice. In addition to the 8 main rocker, the Paramount has a longer heel than the Coronation Ace and Aurora, allowing greater stability when skating backwards (you mentioned you always felt like falling backwards in the Coronation Ace). I would definitely never return to a Coronation Ace, Aurora, or similar blade.

As for you, you like the feel of the Phantom, but want an 8 main rocker and less aggressive toe picks. Then the actual Wilson Gold Seal (not a comparable version by another manufacturer) would probably be your best bet. You mentioned that you bought your Phantoms used. There are three models of the Phantom, so you should determine which model you have: (a) side-honed and tapered edges, (b) side-honed and parabolic edges, and (c) Phantom Special with side-honed and dove-tailed edges (not common). The Wilson Gold Seal comes in two models: (a) side-honed and tapered edges and (b) side-honed and parabolic edges (as far as I know there is no model with side-honed and dove-tailed edges). Choose the Gold Seal model with the same edge geometry as that of the Phantom you have to maintain as close as possible the same feel; if you happen to have the Phantom Special, just go with the Gold Seal with tapered edges, rather than parabolic edges. Blades comparable to the Gold Seal by other manufacturers tend not to have such complex edge geometry options and will be less likely to match the Phantom feel.

Note that the Gold Seal has a pronounced (small radius) spin rocker and high heel lift. It takes getting used to. But its probably the closest match to what you are looking for in a stock blade.

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IceTherapy said:

Thanks so much for your detailed response and understanding my preference for an 8' rocker in an advanced blade!

My used Phantoms were side honed with tapered edges. It does indeed sound like Gold Seals would be a good match in terms of the side honing, tapered edges, and a less aggressive pick profile. Looks like the Eclipse Pinnacles are side honed and the Ultima Apex Supremes are tapered (so one or the other but not both). I may be fine with just one feature, but the only one I could try and return if necessary would be the Pinnacles. There's a large price difference, so it may be worth giving them a shot, and if they don't feel great go with Gold Seals. Or maybe not. Just an idea. But I have more info to use now in making my decision. Thanks!

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Ic3Rabbit said:

I don’t understand why you just don’t get the suggested gold seals instead of continuing your roulette of skate blade purchases. In a short time you have skated on more blades than I have in an extensive 30 years on the ice as a competitor and pro.

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IceTherapy said:

Thanks so much for your detailed response and understanding my preference for an 8' rocker in an advanced blade!

My used Phantoms were side honed with tapered edges. It does indeed sound like Gold Seals would be a good match in terms of the side honing, tapered edges, and a less aggressive pick profile. Looks like the Eclipse Pinnacles are side honed and the Ultima Apex Supremes are tapered (so one or the other but not both). I may be fine with just one feature, but the only one I could try and return if necessary would be the Pinnacles. There's a large price difference, so it may be worth giving them a shot, and if they don't feel great go with Gold Seals. Or maybe not. Just an idea. But I have more info to use now in making my decision. Thanks!

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IceTherapy said:

I have tried low end and intermediate blades and a used pair of advanced blades I got a super low price for. So now I know I need advanced blades, but now I'm not dropping $220-300 Canadian on a pair, but in the $400-700 range instead. Will Gold Seals be worth $250 more than Pinnacles for me? Not sure. I need to figure that out!

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tstop4me said:

Just a word of caution here. Some terminology is not consistent among all manufacturers; at least the terminology between MK and Wilson is now consistent since they merged in 1997. When MK and Wilson say tapered edges, they mean the blade thickness (here, the distance between the inside and the outside edges that run along the ice) varies along the longitudinal direction (toe pick to heel) of the blade: thicker toward the toe pick, thinner toward the heel. The drawings for the Ultima Apex Supreme shows that when Ultima says tapered edges they mean that the blade thickness (here, the distance across the sides of the blade) varies along the vertical direction (stanchion to runner): as far as I can tell from the Ultima drawing, what Ultima calls tapered edges looks like what MK calls dove-tailed edges (wedge-shaped, thinner toward the stanchion, wider toward the runner). Similarly, "side-honed" generally means the sides of the blade are not ground flat and parallel. But the geometry of the side-honed surfaces can vary. For MK and Wilson, the side-honed surfaces [except for dove-tailed blades] are concave: the blades are thicker toward the stanchion and toward the runner, and thinner in between (you will see a distorted image if you look at your reflection on a polished side). What geometry other manufacturers use for side honing I don't know. But these subtle details contribute to the overall feel of a blade on the ice.

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jf12 said:

When you're overblading in the first place, there's a certain amount of you having to adjust to the blade, rather than expecting the blade to be perfect for you for everything. I'm a fellow adult overblader myself. I switched to Pattern 99 when I got my axel directly from my beginner blades, Ultima Aspire XP. I love advanced blades and felt like I was skating 10% faster right away. The picks are big, but if you're running into issues hitting the drag pick on normal skating, or making big holes in the ice during toe jumps, it just means there's an issue with technique that there's less tolerance for on these blades. There is no perfect blade for everything. P99 are amazing for me for jumps and spins and I'm sure they're not really ideal for ice dance, but I have tested up to pre-silver ice dance with them.

Once you've already decided to be in the top-range blade, as long as you are aware of the pros/cons of each one, it might take you months to get your skating optimized for them, and you will not really benefit from constantly switching, especially as a beginner.

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I can appreciate your desire for an 8’ main rocker. I previously skated on the Wilson Coronation Ace (7’ main rocker) for mucho years, and then switched to the Eclipse Aurora (also 7’ main rocker) for about a year. The Aurora is Eclipse’s nominally comparable version of the Coronation Ace. The big plus is that it’s fabricated from 440C stainless steel and has substantially longer edge life than the Coronation Ace. The big neg is that its spin rocker is substantially flatter than that of the Coronation Ace ... and spins are what I’m concentrating on.

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IceTherapy said:

I would love to just drop $700 on blades I have never seen and can't try out, but I need to think things through because I don't want to keep going through blades. Twice I had no choice but to get new ones because I was switching boot brands. And once I had to switch because I just couldn't stand to skate on Legacy blades.

I have tried low end and intermediate blades and a used pair of advanced blades I got a super low price for. So now I know I need advanced blades, but now I'm not dropping $220-300 Canadian on a pair, but in the $400-700 range instead. Will Gold Seals be worth $250 more than Pinnacles for me? Not sure. I need to figure that out!

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Nimyue said:

Just curious, where did you find this out? I bought the Aurora bc it is stainless steel and CA profile. The chart on Kinzie's has it identical, and it's marketed as identical. I've never laid them both next to each other, so this is probably the obvious answer.

The reason I ask is that I'm getting new skates soon and the size is changing so I'll be buying blades also. I really like the stainless steel because I skate 8-9hrs per week and our sharpener only visits every 8 weeks. But I really need to work on spins. I don't want a paramount because sharpening them is complicated and getting my skates sharpened is already complicated enough with the schedule. So I have to decide on a CA or another Aurora pretty soon....

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Ic3Rabbit said:

Believe me, I know as I need 1-2 new pairs of boots and blades every 9-12 months depending on my workload.

I just asked because it seems like with your selectiveness the Gold Seals are what you’re really looking for. They’re elite blades as I’ve stated before so that comes with a hefty price tag.

Good luck!

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vlaurend said:

I'd like to add that I have used traditional Gold Seal blades (with the solid base plate), Gold Seal Parabolic (also with the traditional solid base plate) and Gold Seal Revolution blades (with the cool-looking lightweight carbon fiber stanchions and base plate). While the traditional solid base plate versions of this blade are the heaviest, I would recommend them over the Revolution blades because--at least in my experience--the Revolution blades come with a thinner band of sharpenable steel. I noticed right away that the band of sharpenable steel on the Revolutions looked thinner, but I thought I might be imagining it. But sure enough, I only got 12 sharpenings out of those blades when I have always gotten 18 sharpenings from my standard Gold Seals (including the Parabolic ones) using the same sharpening guy for all of them. So I switched back. I don't really notice a difference between the regular and Parabolic versions, either, so you might also want to save your money on that feature. Oh, one more thing to know is that the Revolution blades, like all lightweight blades, are noisier on the ice. It's just a function of the way sound vibrates through the lighter materials.

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