Whose Rondo Capriccioso is better?

leoleo said:

I feel like we'd need to see Anna's program in competition to actually judge when we see the finished product

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Some people are rather particular in their likes and dislikes and that’s ok. There is nothing she can do to persuade them because she represents something they will continue to dislike regardless of how well she performs it. Sometimes it’s thereputic to vent

I get how beautiful the held out and well executed landings of Michelle are. It’s a nice look for a program and offers a feeling of sureness and security to the performance but in the same vein I find something beautiful and athletic in all those connecting steps Anna offers. I certainly don’t see flailing or uncertainty in her movement. Everything seems for a purpose and utilizing momentum that begins at the fingertips.

TBH Michelle vs Anna seems a bit silly for all the reasons already mentioned and I have no idea where either would fit into my favorites list. The music certainly is near or at the bottom!! They both get my respect though for so many more reasons than I could ever think of to complain about

bramweld said:

Johnny Weir's

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This!

https://youtu.be/TXtHYSAmLMg

shine said:

Stanick Jeanette for the most avant garde : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMzNeAKfD5U

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Thank you a thousand times! This program is simply amazing!

chopinskate said:

Is that what this is a homage to?

https://youtu.be/fJwtHxPifjo?t=2m23s

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Yes.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/M8YE00/sa...-the-baptist-1899-jean-benner-1836-M8YE00.jpg

Teenaged temptress Salome did a strip tease (the dance of the seven veils) for King Herod II. Herod was so impressed that he drunkenly promised her half his kingdom. Salome said, forget that, just give me the head of John the Baptist.

(Herod had imprisoned John the Baptist for disapproving when Herod divorced his first wife and married his brother's wife, Salome's mother.)

This was team Michelle's answer to the critics that said that she needed to skate more grown up if she wanted to win anything in seniors. (I do have to say, Michelle uber that I am I still thought her costume and make-up in the Salome program was ridiculous. )

Mathman said:

Yes.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/M8YE00/sa...-the-baptist-1899-jean-benner-1836-M8YE00.jpg

Teenaged temptress Salome did a strip tease (the dance of the seven veils) for King Herod II. Herod was so impressed that he drunkenly promised her half his kingdom. Salome said, forget that, just give me the head of John the Baptist.

(Herod had imprisoned John the Baptist for disapproving when Herod divorced his first wife and married his brother's wife, Salome's mother.)

This was team Michelle's answer to the critics that said that she needed to skate more grown up if she wanted to win anything in seniors. (I do have to say, Michelle uber that I am I still thought her costume and make-up in the Salome program was ridiculous. )

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At the time I was shocked at the "transformation". I loved Michelle's packaging in the 1994-95 season and didn't like the drastic change very much at all.

Well - she did win everything in sight during the 1995-96 season so I guess it helped (although I'm sure her skating had a lot to do with it also :agree

Imagine said:

She always had the same okay-I'm-giving-a-performance-now face, and was basically rewarded by the fact that not making mistakes in this sport is (or was, I guess) rare.

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Did you see her in her last World Championships that she won? No such face at all (although I would just call it smiling, but there you go), until directly after the programmes. She was terribly concentrated, especially during the short. I think it was in 2003 (the same one when Bourne and Kraatz finally got a title). Not to be compared with the programme about which this thread started - of which I've already put forward my view - but it's one of hers I like best (and I like a lot of her programmes).

For good order: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow09xcuQdAk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Add-GPiKC4Q. They're both great, but that short programme is just fabulous - and not even a triple-triple in there. Sorry about the quality of the second link. Couldn't find a better one quickly - and my VHS tape with this programme is difficult to transfer.

ladyjane said:

Did you see her in her last World Championships that she won? No such face at all (although I would just call it smiling, but there you go), until directly after the programmes. She was terribly concentrated, especially during the short. I think it was in 2003...

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She was totally in command of her choreographic palette.

If you can find a video shot from behind, the ending of the LP where she raises her arms, you can see the audience rising as one on cue, just like they are the orchestra and Michelle is the conductor.

Michelle had considered retiring that year, but the USFSA bullied her into doing Skate America when Sarah Hughes and other headliners dropped out. Plus, Worlds was in America that year, so why not?

Mathman said:

Yes.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/M8YE00/sa...-the-baptist-1899-jean-benner-1836-M8YE00.jpg

Teenaged temptress Salome did a strip tease (the dance of the seven veils) for King Herod II. Herod was so impressed that he drunkenly promised her half his kingdom. Salome said, forget that, just give me the head of John the Baptist.

(Herod had imprisoned John the Baptist for disapproving when Herod divorced his first wife and married his brother's wife, Salome's mother.)

This was team Michelle's answer to the critics that said that she needed to skate more grown up if she wanted to win anything in seniors. (I do have to say, Michelle uber that I am I still thought her costume and make-up in the Salome program was ridiculous. )

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I think Herod promised Salome anything she wanted and Herod's wife told Salome to ask for the head of John the Baptist.

Imagine said:

As a serious fan? Around the time of Sochi, probably during US Nationals that year. I remember watching the ladies competition cause it happened to be on that weekend. Before that as a casual, I just watched skating when nothing else was on TV, or during the Olympics. It wasn't something I was particularly drawn to, it's just that without cable, weekend TV sucks. That said, I was really into Michelle Kwan for a while as a little kid lol (or at least that's what I am told). Growing up we were (as a lot of Asian American households were back then) a Kwan household. My parents actually watched skating whenever it was on for Michelle Kwan. I had a figure skating picture book which came with a replica of Michelle Kwan's necklace. I played a computer game where you make up programs for Michelle Kwan. Michelle Kwan loosing at the Olympics (twice) was caused by "the judges being racist and always wanting to give it to the White girl" I was told. And then we never watched a full figure skating competition again until Pyeongchang actually. It's weird, I watched every single Michelle Kwan program up until she retired, but the only ones that really stuck with me were her Disney ones (well to be fair, I was a kid). Of course, I watched them all later and I do like them generally. There's no arguing that she was objectively the best of her era. I just think she's overrated. For me personally, she just always gives off this artificial okay-watch-me-perform vibe, which is fine I guess. Just not my preference, and I'm only giving an opinion.

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Thanks for your response :agree:

I was just curious because I find that some people who grew up watching her compete tend to have a different view on her skating than some people who came to the sport a bit later. Admittedly, it's difficult to watch a performance from today and compare it with anything that happened 20+ years ago because skating has come SO FAR since then. I remember back in the early 90s where a woman doing a solo 3Lz (it being the hardest jump) was a big deal.

I don't think Michelle is overrated (check my name ) but I do understand how people looking at her skating now would be less impressed with her compared to some of the skating we see today. For me it was never about the jumps. Michelle was a solid technician (not a great lutz) and she was consistent. But it was her performances that really pulled me in and made me a fan. Michelle was her strongest from 1996-2002. Her programs were stunning and her presentation and the way she moved with the music was unmatched for me. She felt the music and the movement. There was a natural grace and flow to her that I found (and still find) gorgeous. Beyond Salt Lake City her programs thinned out quite a bit in terms of choreo and transitions but she was still able to bring that feeling and emotion (most notably her 2003 nats/worlds FS and her 2004 nats FS). I guess that's why I love her so much. :luv17: There have been plenty skaters who were technically stronger than Michelle but her ability to fuse her performance with the music and choreography (as well as her amazing fundamentals) are what keep her at the top of my list.

Skaters with beautiful edge control, lines and a special ability to interpret music and perform...that's what I love. Watching skaters do difficult jumps is very exciting and impressive...but I love it when a skater captivates me with their performance. Michelle, Mao, Carolina and Satoko are the ones who do that for me.

There are only 2-3 occasions I felt that other skaters might have placed higher than Kwan. For example the time with Chen Lu. But overall, throughout her career I think her placements were mostly fine.

charlotte14 said:

There are only 2-3 occasions I felt that other skaters might have placed higher than Kwan. For example the time with Chen Lu. But overall, throughout her career I think her placements were mostly fine.

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At the time I thought that Chen Lu should have won Worlds in 1996, but I can see now how Michelle Kwan won.
In any event, it was extremely close between the the 2 of them.
Chen Lu's long program was and still is one of my favorites of all time (all disciplines) so I was not very objective in my thinking.

And for all of Michelle Kwan's many assets - one of her most important was her athlete's mentality - she never gave up - she was always fighting.

Look at how she came back from behind to win Worlds in 2000 and 2001.

I like Anna Scherbakova's the best

Gonna go out on a limb here and say Rudy Galindo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBfQ-FLYOJc

Anna Shcherbakova’s
Anna Shcherbakova’s again
ANNA SHCHERBAKOVA
ANNA SHCHERBAKOVA x10000

Just realized this is an old thread so delete.

Neither, I've never felt for Kwan's skating whose artistry is far from my taste, but this comparison and thread are just....WHAT? I think she whose name is hard to remember should be compared with her Russian peers like Trusova with quads or Kostornaia with good SS. The junior girl has a long way to go but that's what the junior circuit is for; a learning period.

charlotte14 said:

There are only 2-3 occasions I felt that other skaters might have placed higher than Kwan. For example the time with Chen Lu. But overall, throughout her career I think her placements were mostly fine.

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I agree. The judges rarely had to make tough choices in most of the events Kwan skated in. Usually when she skated well, none of the other top competitors did (with the biggest exceptions being 1996 Worlds and 1998 Nagano). When she didn't skate well, others did and so it was a clear choice for the judges, like 1999 Worlds and 2002 SLC.