Marshall's scoring...

Just curious what other's think. I've really gotten used to COP at this point, and have grown to like the level of detail in the scoring.

For me, reverting back to 6.0 after all the GP events so far is going to make this REALLY seem like a Cheesefest. I'm sure we're all looking forward to a look at Michelle and Sasha at this stage of the season, so I'll be right there with the gang watching with interest.

I just think 6.0 is going to seem strange at this point.

Anyone else?

DG

COP vs 6.0

It seems a shame that the USFSA is clinging to 6.0 even when the writing has been on the wall for some time now. It would be much better to switch to COP this season, and gain experience with it so that they could make more meaningful suggestions in the final tweaking of the new system. The way things are going its the other countries that have most inteligent input to the process, and its they who are doing the tailoring, not the USA.

3axel

I think it is kind of a pain to do the New Judging System. You have to bring in a bunch of computers, round up your technical experts, and jump through a lot of hoops.

I don't think the USFSA is dragging its feet especially, I just think they don't want to be bothered with it in this type of contest. (Prediction: Michelle and Sahsa will be first and third, in some order; Irina and Shizuka will be second and fourth.)

Mathman

Maybe they want to "ease" their way into the new judging system? Didn't they have people give the skaters Cop feedback at Campbell's? Isn't it next season that they are switching to the new system?

Then again, at the same time by sticking to the 6.0 system they are making it more difficult for the American skaters to fully learn and get a feel for the new system before the 2006 olympics.

As for predictions, I won't give one, but I hope either Irina or Arakawa wins. Actually, I don't care all that much...

Mathman said:

I think it is kind of a pain to do the New Judging System. You have to bring in a bunch of computers, round up your technical experts, and jump through a lot of hoops.

I don't think the USFSA is dragging its feet especially, I just think they don't want to be bothered with it in this type of contest. (Prediction: Michelle and Sahsa will be first and third, in some order; Irina and Shizuka will be second and fourth.)

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EDITED 1ST PARAGRAPH OUT IN LIGHT OF MPAL2'S INFORMATION and to add: However, even if the USFSA held their meetings on the use of the COP before the ISU made their announcement, I still think the writing was on the wall and it would have been wise to for the USFSA to vote to use the COP with the fall '04 cheesefests and '05 Nationals.

The ISU and I assume the USFSA want Campbell's, Marshall's, etc. to be taken more seriously, then they use a scoring system that has been all but eliminated. Not smart, IMO. Using the COP would also give the commentators another chance to expose and explain the COP system to the general figure skating public.

IMO, using the COP at Marshall's would give the USFSA good experience in getting all the logistics down at least for ladies and men, which would provide them with good preparation for Nationals. True, there was Skate America, but the scoring was handled by the ISU with international judges.

I also agree with Tripleflutze's remarks and Red Dog's comments about making it more difficult for the US skaters to become familiar with the COP. The first time Michelle will skate under the COP will be at Nationals, not that I think it will hurt her, LOL. Still, if I were a skater, no matter what my record, I wouldn't want my first competition under the COP to be Nationals. JMO.

As for who wins -- why the skaters who do best, natch
Rgirl

I also agree with Tripleflutze's remarks and Red Dog's comments about making it more difficult for the US skaters to become familiar with the COP. The first time Michelle will skate under the COP will be at Nationals, not that I think it will hurt her, LOL. Still, if I were a skater, no matter what my record, I wouldn't want my first competition under the COP to be Nationals. JMO.

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Does anyone know how many, if so, countries have adopted the Cop for their National competitions?

I thought it was 2006 nationals that the US federation was going to introduce the system to their skaters.

Red Dog said:

Does anyone know how many, if so, countries have adopted the Cop for their National competitions?

I thought it was 2006 nationals that the US federation was going to introduce the system to their skaters.

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As far as I know, only SkateCanada is using COP for their Nationals

The USFSA couldn't change to COP this year because they had already had their meetings before the ISU Congress made COP official. The USFSA will not be able to meet again and make COP official for the US until the 2005/2006 season.

Last season was just a test season for COP and not the official ISU scoring system. Perhaps the scoring changes extends to the fluff events as well.

Rgirl said:

I also agree with Tripleflutze's remarks and Red Dog's comments about making it more difficult for the US skaters to become familiar with the COP. The first time Michelle will skate under the COP will be at Nationals, not that I think it will hurt her, LOL. Still, if I were a skater, no matter what my record, I wouldn't want my first competition under the COP to be Nationals. JMO. As for who wins -- why the skaters who do best, natch
Rgirl

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Wont MK's first time to skate under the CoP be at Worlds? I think the US Nats this year will still be 6.0. If not, please someone tell me.

Aside from this, I think everyone agrees that the CoP without hanky panky or subliminal favorites, is an excellent method for judging. However, I believe that it probably still needs some tweeking, and that may be the reason the USFSA is not using it for the cheesefests (or their Nats, if they are using the6.0)

For one thing, I think there is no reason for a host country to be using local technical assistants, and if the ISU is going to assign them, they should ensure that the officials are represented by others than that of the host country.

I also believe that Technical Assistants should pass a test and gain credentials to perform those tasks. In a nutshell, I think the CoP system still needs some work. It is not competed yet.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Wont MK's first time to skate under the CoP be at Worlds? I think the US Nats this year will still be 6.0. If not, please someone tell me.....
I also believe that Technical Assistants should pass a test and gain credentials to perform those tasks. In a nutshell, I think the CoP system still needs some work. It is not competed yet.

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I thought the USFSA was going to use the COP for 2005, but I could certainly be wrong. If I am wrong, I think it makes the situation for US skaters who haven't yet competed under the COP even worse. I mean, having your first COP competition at Worlds -- yuck! Although I'm still sure Michelle will do fine.

ITA with your comments about the Technical Specialists needing to pass a test and gain credentials. But IMO, a system like the COP is going to need tweaking for many years and personally, I don't think there will ever be a final COP system because the sport will continually evolve as will technology. My feeling is that if the COP, with whatever tweaking and/or weaknesses, is going to be used at the '06 Olympics, then it would behoove the individual federations to start using it as soon as possible so the skaters, coaches, and choreographers could get used to it.

mpal2 said:

The USFSA couldn't change to COP this year because they had already had their meetings before the ISU Congress made COP official. The USFSA will not be able to meet again and make COP official for the US until the 2005/2006 season.

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Thanks for the explanation, Mpal2. Bummer that the USFSA had to make their decision before the ISU made theirs regarding the COP just because of scheduling. So I'll edit out the thing I said about the USFSA thinking "We're the big guys in this game..." Who knows what the USFSA would have decided had their meetings been held after the ISU announcement?
Rgirl

No problem Rgirl.

I'd have to go back and check, but I think the timing was less than 1 month. It's bad for this year because the skaters need to learn the system. But there is one good thing I can think of.

Can you imagine the headache of implementing COP for the entire US? Just think of how many people would have to be involved not to mention the simple fact of installing the computers and software for every competition along the way. Implementation could be a nightmare. At least they have time to plan now.

Yesterday during the CBC broadcast of CoC, Barb and Paul were remarking on the technical difficulty some of the female skaters have in their programs this year (a lot with planned 3/3s). Barb then questioned what Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen were thinking when they see these ladies' programs because they do not have 3/3's in their programs (I thought this comment was a bit premature since no one has seen either of their finished programs). Paul then remarked that the US was the only country not using COP at their Nationals this year. The remark sounded like the US skaters were going to be at extreme disadvantage because of this. I have not heard that every other country was using COP, so I am guessing this comment was a bit premature as well.