Mental health in figure skating

StereoLove · Oct 19, 2018

Reading through this thread has brought my thought about Michelle Kwan. Considering her resume in figure skating, has she ever spoken about feeling pressure to win, or if she had any psychological issues during her time as as athlete? She was so dominant, I’ve wondered about that.

Sugar Coated · Oct 19, 2018

Depression manifests and is interpreted differently due to sociocultural factors. One of the first thing you learn is that men present with somatic symptoms and that alcoholism is often self-medication. Like 90% of people’s lower back pain has no physical origin and responds better to psychological interventions. Mental health isn’t “weakness” and they way it presents can be very different.

Why do skaters need coaches? If they are strong enough, why don’t they just train by themselves? Because a coach helps optimize their performance as well as to monitor physical health. Same applies to those who work in mental health.

SailorMoonBear · Nov 24, 2018

I’m bringing this thread back. No matter where you stand on the whole coaching thing, or the approach of her team, or her goals and ambitions…

Evgenia is losing it mentally. Perfect in practice but falls apart in competition. I don’t like watching anyone, especially a 19 year old girl collapse like this.

This is why mental health is so important

believed · Nov 24, 2018

SailorMoonBear said:
I’m bringing this thread back. No matter where you stand on the whole coaching thing, or the approach of her team, or her goals and ambitions…

Evgenia is losing it mentally. Perfect in practice but falls apart in competition. I don’t like watching anyone, especially a 19 year old girl collapse like this.

This is why mental health is so important

I don’t feel comfortable speculating on a teenage girl’s mental state, when she has said nothing about it, especially when you use terms like “losing it mentally.”

karne · Nov 24, 2018

SailorMoonBear said:
Evgenia is losing it mentally. Perfect in practice but falls apart in competition. I don’t like watching anyone, especially a 19 year old girl collapse like this.

What an appalling remark. There is absolutely no evidence of Evgenia "losing it mentally" or suffering a "collapse". Everyone has rough days or even whole seasons. She just made a big coaching change and is assimilating new/different technique. When the wholesale nature of the changes is taken into account, what she is continuing to achieve this season is rather remarkable.

The best thing to do, if you really were so concerned about her mental health, would be to continually support her and love her unconditionally. When one makes wholesale life changes, support from one's friends/family/fans is so important. Having her fans turn on her and snipe that she's collapsing and losing it would be worse for her mental health than a couple of rough results.

ladyjane · Nov 24, 2018

karne said:
What an appalling remark. There is absolutely no evidence of Evgenia "losing it mentally" or suffering a "collapse". Everyone has rough days or even whole seasons. She just made a big coaching change and is assimilating new/different technique. When the wholesale nature of the changes is taken into account, what she is continuing to achieve this season is rather remarkable.

The best thing to do, if you really were so concerned about her mental health, would be to continually support her and love her unconditionally. When one makes wholesale life changes, support from one's friends/family/fans is so important. Having her fans turn on her and snipe that she's collapsing and losing it would be worse for her mental health than a couple of rough results.

Totally with you on this one Karne. To be honest, I think she is doing quite well after such substantial changes. Of course, we all wanted to suddenly see her do a perfect lutz and winning everything but this isn't how it works. These things take time. Just hoping people will wait, and not say things like 'losing it mentally', because she misses a double axel. Come on, this is a very young woman, acclimatising to a new environment and getting used to a whole new world. Brian said it's a four year plan...let's not make it even more difficult than it is!

Shanshani · Nov 24, 2018

karne said:
The best thing to do, if you really were so concerned about her mental health, would be to continually support her and love her unconditionally. When one makes wholesale life changes, support from one's friends/family/fans is so important. Having her fans turn on her and snipe that she's collapsing and losing it would be worse for her mental health than a couple of rough results.

Yup. Any emotionally difficulties Evgenia has been having with her results and just adjusting generally this season are very likely being massively exacerbated by the amount of pressure, expectation, drama and vitriol directed at her by so many fans. It's very difficult to let that stuff go, especially when you're as young as she is and consequently less likely to be resilient to the opinions of others (not to mention when some of the people being vitriolic are older people who should know better).

moriel · Nov 24, 2018

Just a side note on Zhenya, before people start blaming people for being mean on social networks. She said in a recent interview that she is not on social networks and her instagram account is maintained by other people - which means she has all the means to have nearly no contact with the internet community and what this community writes about her.
https://rsport.ria.ru/figure_skating...146477588.html
"I have long been out of social networks."

GoodMorningGrapeseed · Nov 24, 2018

Evgenia skates imperfectly twice and you call that falling apart. :scratch3: I've seen worse from Kolyada and Pogorilaya. Evgenia has been putting up very impressive fights. She just has certain issues that need to be worked out.

Sugar Coated · Nov 24, 2018

Struggling with the mental aspects of a sport is not the same as experiencing difficulties with mental health. Zhenya does seem to be having difficulties (at the moment) with the mental component of competition but there is NO indication she is having mental health problems.

Being overly nervous or anxious during a competition to the point it interferes with performance is not a mental health problem. Thats a normal situation to experience anxiety and most athletes have had this anxiety impede performance at some point. Now if that anxiety is paralyzing off the ice and during non competition times, then it would possibly be an anxiety disorder. But so far we have no reason to assume that’s the case for Zhenya.

Shanshani · Nov 25, 2018

moriel said:
Just a side note on Zhenya, before people start blaming people for being mean on social networks. She said in a recent interview that she is not on social networks and her instagram account is maintained by other people - which means she has all the means to have nearly no contact with the internet community and what this community writes about her.
https://rsport.ria.ru/figure_skating...146477588.html
"I have long been out of social networks."

That doesn't mean she's not aware of the hate directed at her and immune to it. Recently, she mentioned a 40 year old man with kids telling her she's a betrayer and that he hates her. That kind of stuff sticks with you, even if you're away from social media.

Struggling with the mental aspects of a sport is not the same as experiencing difficulties with mental health. Zhenya does seem to be having difficulties (at the moment) with the mental component of competition but there is NO indication she is having mental health problems.

Being overly nervous or anxious during a competition to the point it interferes with performance is not a mental health problem. Thats a normal situation to experience anxiety and most athletes have had this anxiety impede performance at some point. Now if that anxiety is paralyzing off the ice and during non competition times, then it would possibly be an anxiety disorder. But so far we have no reason to assume that’s the case for Zhenya.

It can be a sports psychology problem though, which is why everyone constantly says Mikhail Kolyada should see a sports psychologist. And given how much skaters' lives are dedicated to skating, it would be surprising if bad results from skating and being the subject of intense public scrutiny and negativity didn't have an effect on a skater's mental health in general. Sure, it may not be a diagnosable mental illness, but something doesn't have to be a diagnosable mental illness to be a mental health problem. People go to mental health professionals all the time to help cope with things that are not diagnosable mental illnesses or even abnormal reactions to their circumstances, for instance going to a grief counselor to deal with the loss of a loved one. My point is that just because Zhenya or any other skater isn't depressed and doesn't have anxiety or some other diagnosable issue doesn't mean that the kind of public scrutiny and criticism they face isn't causing a mental health problem.

coldblueeyes · Nov 25, 2018

Shanshani said:
It can be a sports psychology problem though, which is why everyone constantly says Mikhail Kolyada should see a sports psychologist. And given how much skaters' lives are dedicated to skating, it would be surprising if bad results from skating and being the subject of intense public scrutiny and negativity didn't have an effect on a skater's mental health in general.

He's been working with psychologists for a time now, and Konstantinova, his teammate too. The thing is, the mind is not just an exact thing where you can do this one exercise or use this one technique and it will work and you'll get better. However, Kolyada and Konstantinova both were never consistent skaters, and they've been with the same coach for a long time now, which makes me wonder what kind of mentality Evgenia has been ingrained with throughout her life to go from being such a strong, consistent skater to having a rough time now, even though it started already last year.

It's not a dig at Eteri in any way, though. Her method is tried and tested, but we haven't yet seen what happens in the aftermath. Perhaps we're seeing it now.

Sugar Coated · Nov 25, 2018

Shanshani said:
That doesn't mean she's not aware of the hate directed at her and immune to it. Recently, she mentioned a 40 year old man with kids telling her she's a betrayer and that he hates her. That kind of stuff sticks with you, even if you're away from social media.

It can be a sports psychology problem though, which is why everyone constantly says Mikhail Kolyada should see a sports psychologist. And given how much skaters' lives are dedicated to skating, it would be surprising if bad results from skating and being the subject of intense public scrutiny and negativity didn't have an effect on a skater's mental health in general. Sure, it may not be a diagnosable mental illness, but something doesn't have to be a diagnosable mental illness to be a mental health problem. People go to mental health professionals all the time to help cope with things that are not diagnosable mental illnesses or even abnormal reactions to their circumstances, for instance going to a grief counselor to deal with the loss of a loved one. My point is that just because Zhenya or any other skater isn't depressed and doesn't have anxiety or some other diagnosable issue doesn't mean that the kind of public scrutiny and criticism they face isn't causing a mental health problem.

I absolutely think she would benefit from a good sports psychologist. I acknowledge that she is dealing with major life adjustments and extreme pressure. Frankly I think all athletes should be training mentally as well as physically and using a performance coach (e.g. psychologist) for mental preparedness. But I wouldn’t call that “mental health” treatment. The field has performance and sports psychologists to differentiate from mental health professionals, although in reality a lot of skills and techniques apply to both fields.

ancientpeas · Nov 25, 2018

Even a trained psychiatrist would never attempt to diagnose or treat someone they have never met. Maybe those of us without 10 or 15 years of training and experience dealing with the mentally ill could stop trying to diagnose what is wrong with any skater.

Most of us can speak only of our own life experience. I have known people who "self-sabotage" and it is an incredibly sad thing to watch. I have a very, very good friend who is brilliant when it comes to writing essays (as in papers so good that professors want to use her work in their own work and actually beg her to hand in her work (in public) just so they can have the pleasure of reading it) and yet she is crippled by anxiety over it and often can't turn them in because the pressure is so enormous that it crushes her. A-types are perfectionists and most competitive athletes are a-types and they will sometimes get into this mindset where if perfection can't be achieved then they'd rather fail at it.

It would hurt none of us to have some compassion and kindness when it comes to anyone who is struggling.

GoodMorningGrapeseed · Nov 25, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
However, Kolyada and Konstantinova both were never consistent skaters, and they've been with the same coach for a long time now, which makes me wonder what kind of mentality Evgenia has been ingrained with throughout her life to go from being such a strong, consistent skater to having a rough time now, even though it started already last year.

I mean if someone you regarded like a mother threw you under the bus like that and turned so many people against you... No other skater has faced such a huge backlash just for switching coaches and it can create a lot of self-doubt. And then there’s a youtube channel out there dedicated to tearing her apart.

Sugar Coated · Nov 25, 2018

coldblueeyes said:
He's been working with psychologists for a time now, and Konstantinova, his teammate too. The thing is, the mind is not just an exact thing where you can do this one exercise or use this one technique and it will work and you'll get better. However, Kolyada and Konstantinova both were never consistent skaters, and they've been with the same coach for a long time now, which makes me wonder what kind of mentality Evgenia has been ingrained with throughout her life to go from being such a strong, consistent skater to having a rough time now, even though it started already last year.

It's not a dig at Eteri in any way, though. Her method is tried and tested, but we haven't yet seen what happens in the aftermath. Perhaps we're seeing it now.

I am no fan of Eteri’s method but I do think it worked for Zhenya in some ways (although not for long term wellness and life adjustment).

From what I can tell as an outsider (so take it with a grain of salt), Eteri’s method is a lot like training soldiers. Soldiers are broken down and then built back up to obey and achieve their mission. They don’t think or question, they trust their commander. And that may make someone extremely mentally consistent because she isn’t second guessing herself or doubting, she is trusting the commander completely and doing what she is trained. Now long term, that’s not necessarily healthy as many soldiers have extreme difficulty adjusting back to civilian life.

The thing is that when she “lost” the olympics, zhenyas lost her trust in Eteri. Once that trust is lost, I don’t think she’d be able to be mentally consistent even if she stayed with Eteri. She wouldn’t be able to blindly obey. I actually think Zhenya would do well with mentorship, or even coaching, with someone like Yagudin who has had a similar experience to her. But ultimately, Zhenya will need to learn to let go and trust herself first and foremost, especially in competition, and be able to tune out all the forces that have her second guessing herself.

Mental health in figure skating

StereoLove

Sugar Coated

SailorMoonBear

Match Penalty

believed

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

ladyjane

Shanshani

moriel

GoodMorningGrapeseed

Sugar Coated

Shanshani

coldblueeyes

Sugar Coated

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

GoodMorningGrapeseed

Sugar Coated

Similar threads

Connect with us